At a loss to profit

[Graufalke]

I must be missing something very obvious as after attempting several times to start the game, I just die the slow death of bankruptcy.

By the time I make it to a town and manage to profit from trade and passengers, I lose the profit to by supplies to keep from starving.

Suggestions are appreciated as even on easy mode I am blowing it :P

[Nordil(Hun)]

Originally posted by Corin:

Eh, I don't agree on the slaves. I mostly played with workers, and just enslaved people to sell them for profit when I'd do merc tasks. It's certainly possible to do just fine without using slaves in terms of profit.

I think the fundamental mistake in that case is going out to a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ town like Ash and trying to make profit there early on.

Now may slaves be more profitable in an actuarial sense? Sure. But you absolutely don't need to use them to make a profit, it really is as faceroll easy as just taking trade tasks to the major cities early on. I think the real way to maximize your profits is making sure your crew is specialized towards whatever you're doing. Maintaining a large merc crew when you're just marching along the road between major cities eats hugely into your profit, for example. But that's more of a mid and late game trap.

FWIW I don't think odd job spam is supposed to work like that with slaves and it's probably an oversight. It's like saying Skyrim is about selling crafted weapons to vendor and doing anything else is pointless.

The odd job spam, i figured is an exploit not intended, it is why i brought it up on the forum. (I've participated early access for a few games, and gave lotsa feedback as well, if the devs had an open discord channel even reporting it there too. However i cant do that here because the discord requires registration which i do not want to do:P)

Well you sell slaves. You basicly sell a slave for 65 charger. That is actually quite good profit. And it can also change how much one of your trade runs go.

The issue is that the constant attacks are what require a huge mercenary force while you are trading. Allthough with 2 beasts of burden you would require like 10-12 workers and therefore about 10 guards. But you get attacked just once and you wont be really able to defend yourself. Especially once the grace period ends. By that time you need a seriously larger army with very good equipment. And that is when the slave vs worker may really show its difference. Consumption, carry capacity and work force they are all superior in this regard to a normal worker.
Also a beast of burden for 65 carry capacity costs 25 bross. Which is the same price of nearly 32 slaves. But you can buy the slaves slowly, whereas for the Beast you need to have the whole sum together. So you can further increase your profits with buying slaves instead of Beasts.

It is possible to succeed with workers just it is a lot lot lot more harder, and there is no reward for it neither.

[After Aura]

The biggest reason why slaves > workers is the lower consumption. Even if you had all the money in the world, you still have limited cargo slots to carry supplies with. Going away from populated areas with workers instead of slaves and the extra consumption starts showing while you're slowly running out of supplies.

[Cisco2950]

So, I start playing this today. Lovin it. hatin it. Gotta keep playin it. So I have played for about 12 real hours, and have tried some different variations. has anyone done full mounted team? No slow beast of burdens. No Slaves. just lizards and riders? The hardest is keeping enough food/rations.

[After Aura]

I'm doing the mounted up playstyle and it's not hard actually. I've done it a bit later in my playthrough when I've earned lots of coin.

36 fighters + 4 scouts + 18 slaves + 9 companions = 80 horses (a few extra for the cargo slots and just in case) all mounted up.

NO outriders. They just raise my consumption AND workforce considerably and makes it unviable. Just add them in the combat screen and remove them immediately after.

Basically impossible to get defeated in combat doing the level 4/5 fighting tasks. Using resourcefulness to boost tactics and use the Cavalry Charge and Advanced Wedge.

I usually do 3/4 of fighting tasks for a lot of coins and then wander around doing quests. When I start going low again I do another batch of fights.

[For River]

Originally posted by FxFighter:

Originally posted by For River:

Buy reinforced cartwheels in Mines for another movement point.

This doesn't give movement, it only gives +2 max march and flee
https://i.imgur.com/9YnTTaD.png

They've changed it. During the earlier builds they used to give 2 movements. Btw, mammals are the way to go now in 1.0 not reptiles as they buffed it.

[Nordil(Hun)]

Originally posted by Razorator:

The biggest reason why slaves > workers is the lower consumption. Even if you had all the money in the world, you still have limited cargo slots to carry supplies with. Going away from populated areas with workers instead of slaves and the extra consumption starts showing while you're slowly running out of supplies.

Their cargo capacity is also higher, as is their work force, and also they apparantly do not matter for crowded camps. Oh and no upkeep. Basicly there is no reason to use workers...EVER:(

[Jean-Maurice Nya]

TowerWizard, you basically need to do the same with most managerial games, even most RTS or strategy games (for exemple, the way I play Imperator, Europa Universalis or Civilization is almost the same at every single beginning of my games, then I adapt more or less rapidly depending on environment). It's just trying to be as realistic as possible. Some paths are harder than others. To try harder paths, you need to get all "hidden" game mechanics and make the best of it (and the game isn't "Iron Maned", you can save at some critical points when you want to explore possibilities offered).
I just finished the first chapter of Finndurarth I've met during my travel to Deven (I just wanted to see some of the land and happened to meet her on the road), and I didn't begin with Garrick's hidden cargo as fights there were quite harsch (but I may try now I have my dragonkind sorceress at a respectable level). As for Harvek, I just encountered one fella of his list.
Next game (in a long time then) I'll go for the Orc just to see how it goes. The supercargo deputy perk is nice for a starter, but you basically don't need it. You gain one slot every 105 cargo space, that's not that much, you can do good things without it with mounts or beast quite quickly too (3 mounts is one slot with the extra storage, 5 if fighters mount them, which is interesting even if more expensive than beasts and their 3 slots).

The trading is very profitable. Tasks are just the easy way to make good profits early on with a small cargo. But you can make huge amount of profits by trading.

To really enjoy this kind of games, you really need to invest time in it before getting a grip on all possibilities offered. For example, "As far as the eye can see" is a game I'll need to focus for a long time before getting all of it and progress with less frustration. I cannot just play 2-3 hours from time to time. Well, Vagrus is similar, you need to focus on what makes it easy, and then go for harder paths. It might not be for all casual players.

[After Aura]

Sometimes you also have to take a bit of a risk and treasure will follow
https://i.imgur.com/SHBk4wn.png

Edit:
ok nvm
https://i.imgur.com/r1YtEbc.png

[TowerWizard]

Originally posted by Jean-Maurice Nya:

TowerWizard, you basically need to do the same with most managerial games, even most RTS or strategy games

Well, I actually agree. It is just that I though the game would be more free than it is, I guess. For example, I assumed you would have different starts based on your race, or maybe that it would be random. Clicking through massive amounts of text that you have already read is not that fun, either.

But, I do like a challenge, and have started a second game, trying to learn from my mistakes. I did now buy a second beast of burden in the first town, but have a hard time keeping all the slots filled, because it is rare that I find profitable trade routes in the direction that I am going, and multiple faction quests, of factions I want to advance, going in the same direction as well. I guess I could just advance several different factions, but they are adversaries and enemies of each other, not sure how that works though.

Anyway, I will play some more, and see what happens.

[claiminglight]

A few points of advice to offer:
- Consider hiring enough guards to have full defense, then don't be afraid to burn red move. The impact to your vigor seems to reflect the percentage of the March feet you used. If you burn around 50% of your red feet once every second or third move, you'll be perfectly fine. And you can go over that too, as you figure out what you can safely manage.

- Horses are better than warriors. You can toggle them into makeshift cargo space or into outriders as the situation demands. You can even turn unladen horses into outriders WITHIN combat. And they're a much lower initial investment than a beast of burden. Plus, they don't ask for salaries. Be careful though: you *cannot* turn an outrider into a horse during the loot screen (this strikes me as an oversight, so I sent a request on it).

- The Buy Price of a Beast of Burden is around 25 Bross, and the sell price is around 22 Bross. This essentially makes a Beast of Burden rentable for 3 Bross. If you find a collection of missions all going to the same place, but you don't have the cargo space for all of them, consider eating into a little of the profits to rent a Beast, and selling it when you no longer need it.

But, in my opinon, don't plan on *keeping* a second beast of burden for a long while. Maybe wait until you have your first 100 Bross. You're just not going to have the kind of fluid capital you need to keep that thing loaded constantly until then.

[Cisco2950]

Originally posted by TowerWizard:

Originally posted by Jean-Maurice Nya:

TowerWizard, you basically need to do the same with most managerial games, even most RTS or strategy games

But, I do like a challenge, and have started a second game, trying to learn from my mistakes. I did now buy a second beast of burden in the first town, but have a hard time keeping all the slots filled, because it is rare that I find profitable trade routes in the direction that I am going, and multiple faction quests, of factions I want to advance, going in the same direction as well. I guess I could just advance several different factions, but they are adversaries and enemies of each other, not sure how that works though.

So coming from a family of Truckers this part is the reality of the transportation industry, Never leave the box empty. No cargo no money. My dad taught us to always plan for a return load. In this game that to me where the challenge comes in , thinking and reviewing all the different items and values, then keeping some thing s not just for the next stop, but three stops over where I get the biggest return on investment.

I just started playing this yesterday and am hooked. I would like to be able to, sometime in the future start an active second Vargus group. Then have a northern and southern route to follow. Then add a caravan just for exploring and ruin diving.

[thatfingerisbroken]

The thing about beasts early on is that you shouldn't necessarily think of them as permanent parts of your band.

Buying and selling a beast means a loss of about 200 bucks and they each give you 3-4 slots. You can often very easily make that difference back in a single trip. whether it's tasks or trading. And the moment you don't need them anymore, just sell them and get rid of the workforce supporting them. You don't need to drag around more than 1 beast if you can't load them up, it will likely end up costing you more than the buy/sell difference.

[TowerWizard]

Does anyone know what factions being opponents mean? If I gain rep with a faction, do I lose rep with their opponents? How much rep is lost?

[Nordil(Hun)]

Originally posted by Cisco2950:

Originally posted by TowerWizard:

But, I do like a challenge, and have started a second game, trying to learn from my mistakes. I did now buy a second beast of burden in the first town, but have a hard time keeping all the slots filled, because it is rare that I find profitable trade routes in the direction that I am going, and multiple faction quests, of factions I want to advance, going in the same direction as well. I guess I could just advance several different factions, but they are adversaries and enemies of each other, not sure how that works though.

So coming from a family of Truckers this part is the reality of the transportation industry, Never leave the box empty. No cargo no money. My dad taught us to always plan for a return load. In this game that to me where the challenge comes in , thinking and reviewing all the different items and values, then keeping some thing s not just for the next stop, but three stops over where I get the biggest return on investment.

I just started playing this yesterday and am hooked. I would like to be able to, sometime in the future start an active second Vargus group. Then have a northern and southern route to follow. Then add a caravan just for exploring and ruin diving.

Actually depends. For instance if you take any faction request to transport to Lumen, you will have nothing to transport back. You can sell every now and then 30 crystals in Arken or Torag but that is it. Allthough you can get 4-5 quests that all lead to Lumen from Torag each for around 10-13 silver reward. However coming back you will have like max 2 cargo slots filled. In this case going back a bit slower and foraging and hunting all along the way can make it worth. Herbs, ivory, bones, hides, you can fill your cargo slots with these, along with supplies. (They fixed the foraging and the hunting part with yesterday's patch, now you can get additional items beside supply.)

[Jean-Maurice Nya]

TowerWizard, I didn't check but I agree on one point: starting locations, if not already, should depend on chosen background. I went with the "basic" human trader.
As for the text, well, that's the problem with visual novels too when you want to start another run, you already know most of it. But as soon as you'll be able to feel good for a long run (implying you took a good start), starting over won't be as painful as when you start again and again.

As for opponents, it doesn't seem to decrease their opinion while it does with ennemies. But I didn't check this properly, the benefits of doing a task seem to overcome the costs of 2-3 tasks done for a rival faction.
At one point, just consider you have enough money and strenght, so go seek new places. Use saves as this is not a roguelike. If you're not happy with the outcomes, reload. It may be boring, but we all do mistakes and we shouldn't blame game mechanics for that (in my opinion).

As for the second or third beast, even with less than 100 Bross, I still keep it to explore places I didn't visit yet, so I fully load my caravan with supplies and well feed my caravan. Doing so gives some interesting insight points. It's also a good way to increase moral, obedience and vigor after a harsh trip.