What are the conditions for a Lycan/vampire clan to form?

[Thinking of ♥♥♥♥♥]

In my current playthrough I have a bunch of level 4 werewolves and vampires running around, but no one is forming a clan or doing anything above survival. I know I can use trigger flaw on vampires to make them embrace someone, but they don't seem to do it themselves. I did that (in previous games) but the vampire lord still didn't do anything. Same goes for the werewolves. They just run around, I tried kicking them out of their faction to become vagrants (like the description says) but they just live their live.

Wat do?

[gamester512]

I've only seen a Vampire Clan form once so far, and I believe what you need for it to happen is that the villager who will become the actual Vampire Lord has to personally turn 2-3 other villagers into Vampires, and they possibly also need to be exposed as a Vampire to their faction so that they get kicked out and "banned" from their original faction, at which point I believe the Vampire Lord and any other vampires from the same faction will all form a new Vampire clan and also create the unique Vampire Castle building.

I believe a Lycanthrope has to transform around three times or so, at which point they then gain the ability to transform into an actual werewolf instead of just a wolf. They may also need to create a few other Lycanthropes like the Vampire Lord, but I'm not completely certain, as I have yet to see a Werewolf Clan ever form thus far.

[The Seraph of Tomorrow]

It's been a while since I played, but it was basically as gamester said.

A vampire turns 2 or 3 other villagers into vampires. Then one day decide to leave the faction to create their own faction (Vampire Clan).

[Killer]

Need to upgrade vampirism and lycanthropy at Spire to lv 3 to allow vampires and werewolves to form a clan. Also, if your vampirism and lycanthropy is charge based, you need to upgrade it first while you have a charge because when you have zero charges it won't appear on the spire.