Longbow ultimate still needlessly excessive

[Strong Independent Nappa]

I still cant fathom why they thought longbow explosive shot should do THAT much damage, even with the "slight" nerf it got.. even tho its actually a straight up buff since it increased max models hit... still outright kills half an entire archer unit and knocks half a spear sergeant unit on its ass even from the front against the shield, meanwhile even if i throw my musket bomb behind a namkan unit to get the extra damage it doesnt even kill a single model.
For starters the bow ult is way too strong, but add to that my much shorter range and harder to aim musket bomb (downsides that you expect to be compensated for my greater damage) just feels super weak, its a situational anti hero knockdown at best and even then it has to be RIGHT at their feet, both its damage and radius are way smaller it just doesnt make sense

[Krux RiCharan]

Why you whining? Bows are so weak, I dont even play them. lol you just dodge the shot. Super easy

[CaveSpider]

Its the only thing LB has got they would need to rework that class if they changed it any more, so its not going to change much. Make sure to spread out you're archers.

[BIT Bear]

I agree with you that the Explosive Shot radius should be on par with the Musket Bomb.

Other than that have you tried playing LB? Their ultimate(s) is literally all they got and are good for. All other skills (beside buffing your penetration) are subpar compared to other classes.

[Silverlance]

Longbow ultimate has much damage? have you seen the damage output from dual blades? or the grab ultimate from a maul which is a certain death sentence to be grabbed by? Explosive arrow from a longbow aint that high damage honestly, and its 1 skill, and its a skill shot, pretty weak compared to many other things in the game that are even easier to use....

[Krux RiCharan]

Honestly i agree they shouldnt have nerfed it, but people whine cause they cant catch up to a long bow.

[Lachanche]

it's not that big of a nerf, just enough to let vassal longbowmen survive 1 exploding arrow.

[Kanjejou]

well seeing long bow basic attack hit for 3-4k damages it certainly dont require an AOE 9k attack unpurgeable CC

[Strong Independent Nappa]

Ive played the longbow now with ult just to try it out to see if it was as overpowered as it seemed and honestly.. it is and it isnt its hard to describe.
The Ult is Extremely OP, but the rest of the class is.. well its hard to place, against heroes it doesnt do much especially against heavy armor, if you have ult ready then you can get some really insane burst and potentially nuke a medium or light armor in a few seconds with the pointblank shotgun attack in the back after ulting them to the ground but thats pretty situational.
The problem is how it deals its damage in the first place. Ult aside when i tried out Longbow even with a basic blue weapon with no bonuses it was mind numbingly easy (and extremely boring) just sitting back and plonk, plonk, plonk one shotting enemy ranged units from a safe distance. You can easily achieve a high number of kills without ever really risking anything and not requiring any real skill.
My main reason for disliking the Longbow so much is i main as musket and compare several things to it, some of which just dont make any sense.
Even small things like how the longbow shotgun actually does significantly more damage than the musket one, though it has to be at absolute pointblank range, (tho this is actually easy to do after knocking someone down or running up to someone thats busy fighting someone else).
Even the basic attack damage is all over the place, i do the same or more damage on a back hit against low tier infantry at maxium range with a blue bow (around 5-6k) as i do on a headshot at close range with an epic musket that has almost +400 piercing damage.
It seems like the bow does waaay more base damage than the musket per shot against lighter armor and only when against pretty heavy armor does the damage start to equalise a bit. The armor piercing system is weird as hell and damage vs units sames very different to damage vs heroes even at similar armor values.
And then lastly the ult.

I have the bomb on the musket maxed, ive even tried full strength with a +blunt damage musket and still the damage doesnt come anywhere near that of the lvl 1 explosive shot with a basic ♥♥♥♥♥ blue bow. If i throw the musket bomb at the front of a shield wall it does next to nothing and doesnt knock anythign down, if i throw it behind them it does a bit more damage and might knock a few down but the blast radius is very small and the damage seems to diminish like with a melee attack, meaning if i only hit 2 or 3 it does meh damage and against a large group i see numbers as low as 1k. Yet when i tried the longbow ult out i could fire it at the front of a shield wall and it knocks half the unit on their asses and does like 7-8k damage to EACH guy it hit. Its just ridiculous. I could easily go in to a match with my blue bow and get 100+ kills just using the bow and not using my units just by using ult off cd and killing enemy ranged, all while not risking anything. I just found that unbelievably boring personally but still it really doesnt seem like a well designed class.

I mean it might just be me but when you have a grenade on the musket, which has a much shorter range and is harder to aim. If your running out to lob it into a fight you actually put yourself at risk etc you expect it to be at least the same power if not stronger than an explosive shot that can be fired from half a mile away

[Strelok]

7-8k vs shield wall jajajajaja you have no ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ idea. You are saying that the last of the longbow leaves elite imperial spearmen at 20% health, don't be ridiculous, Not half of that damage I do against heavy armor, with all the rogue equipment, a purple recurve bow with improved statistics, so don't say ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. Even militia pikemen tank the damage of the ulti without dying and have barely 1/3 of the armor of the imperial spearman and 3000 less health, the ulti of the longbows are only used against a shield wall to make way for a charge.

You do not have enough with the nerfed that they put this last patch? Level 3 of the Blast Arrow now does practically the same damage as Level 1 previously.
The role of the longbow is to kill enemy ranged units, support the team, and annoy the enemy as much as you can.
The musket plays a similar role but closer and with a much higher firing power, to that add all the cc and the survival it has.
All classes have their strengths and weaknesses and that is what makes them unique, I accept the bow as it is, a weapon for killing light units and which is literally useless against heavy armor.

There it is said, forgive by the google translator and good night :D

[Grim Sorrow]

Originally posted by Strelok:

7-8k vs shield wall jajajajaja you have no ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ idea. You are saying that the last of the longbow leaves elite imperial spearmen at 20% health, don't be ridiculous, Not half of that damage I do against heavy armor, with all the rogue equipment, a purple recurve bow with improved statistics, so don't say ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. Even militia pikemen tank the damage of the ulti without dying and have barely 1/3 of the armor of the imperial spearman and 3000 less health, the ulti of the longbows are only used against a shield wall to make way for a charge.

You do not have enough with the nerfed that they put this last patch? Level 3 of the Blast Arrow now does practically the same damage as Level 1 previously.
The role of the longbow is to kill enemy ranged units, support the team, and annoy the enemy as much as you can.
The musket plays a similar role but closer and with a much higher firing power, to that add all the cc and the survival it has.
All classes have their strengths and weaknesses and that is what makes them unique, I accept the bow as it is, a weapon for killing light units and which is literally useless against heavy armor.

There it is said, forgive by the google translator and good night :D

+1

[Strong Independent Nappa]

i said ive seen it personally, while playing it, with lvl 1 only, do up to 7-8k even firing into the front of a shield unit. You then counter by using imperial spear guards, the most tanky shield unit in the game, of ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ course it doesnt do as much to them lol. The point was its literally zero skill or effort you can still do stupid amounts of damage and knockback even hitting the front of a shield unit dont even need to reposition to hit them in the back like you need to with musket.

[Lachanche]

Originally posted by Strong Independent Nappa:

i said ive seen it personally, while playing it, with lvl 1 only, do up to 7-8k even firing into the front of a shield unit. You then counter by using imperial spear guards, the most tanky shield unit in the game, of ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ course it doesnt do as much to them lol. The point was its literally zero skill or effort you can still do stupid amounts of damage and knockback even hitting the front of a shield unit dont even need to reposition to hit them in the back like you need to with musket.

dude you don't do 7k with exploding arrow. period.
even namkhan archers take around 4.8k on a crit, you are talking about 7k damage with a plain blue bow ? no ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ way dude, you must be drunk

this is exploding arrow about to explode on namkhan archers (in the red circle) https://i.imgur.com/YHIgDYE.png

this is the damage numbers
https://i.imgur.com/vvYUeFE.png

i am using a 200/200 blue bow (+203 piercing +193 penetration to be accurate)

The damage DOES scale with number of targets hit.
here you can see pike militia + serfs + desmene javelineers all bunched up https://i.imgur.com/BcORYzL.png

And here is the damage numbers
https://i.imgur.com/o9QMMqB.png

Much lower than before because i hit many more targets

[Bybloss]

you cannot compare a weapon that has a range limit to one that does not . you can be on the other side of the map and still do just as much damage . The weapon out ranges everything . Also , it does huge damage to heavy armor while actual longbow units do half that to heavy armor units . They are in a good place to be in par with the rest of the weapons , but they NEED to be limited in range .

[Silverlance]

The damage they do to heavy armor, ain't that high, and do keep in mind, that the DPS from a longbow, will be a lot lower than most other weapons. You have to spend time to draw each arrow for max damage, so its high / decent damage, good range, but slow fire rate. Compared to most other weapons the DPS will be pretty low, but when it hits you notice it. Most melee weapons have way higher DPS, difference is that you need to be closer but when you are, the damage is way higher. Only reason longbow often ends up having a lot of kills in matches, is because they are long ranged, often standing at more safe positions, harrasing the enemy team, focusing on their archers and their soft targets, taking out heroes with low HP etc and just being in constant battle because they are long ranged so they will be shooting a lot through and entire match. The damage from exploading arrow is not as high as people try to make it look like in this thread. If you want to see what damage looks like, take a look at like Maul, playing maul a bit myself, and the damage they do against troops are through the roof. With my longbow im throwing tiny rocks at heavier units like Iron Reapers (Where most does little damage) While maul does really high damage against those as well, and anything else in melee. There are a lot of other abilities, from other classes, that are way more broken than anything the longbow has. Current state of the longbow is that its not even close to being broken compared to much else in the game. The difference is that some people might notice them more, as longbow is one of the classes with highest activity in the game due to being long range.

And if the damage from explosive arrow from a longbow is a problem. Wouldn't things like nodachi be a problem? Seeing how destructive just their swings can easily be against troops?

[Bybloss]

you forget about things like headshot crits [easy on stationary targets] . shooting things in the back . doesnt matter how broken other classes are if they cant even touch you because you are on the other side of the map