The unbalanced classes of the longsword and shortsword.

[connor]

Both of these classes are completely overpowered. As soon as somebody gets epic tier armour and puts all their points into toughness it takes atleast 3 people to deal with them and they will still have a decent chance of winning.

The class has huge damage and tank capabilities simple because of the equipment being heavy armour, whilst the base stats on the swords are really high. It's gotten to a point where a backstab does around a 20th of their total HP.

Both classes have an insane amount of CC, PVP, PVE and sustain capabilities. There is no counter play to these classes. The Longsword having a 15second cool down for a 10 second passive heal is extremely powerful.

TL:DR - Tank meta is extremely boring and annoying to play against. People like to play DPS but it's useless due to tank meta.

[Viror]

Longsword need more attack power

[Samp]

Originally posted by Reigen:

The Long sword is not just OP, its GOD MODE. You can run with your shield and attack at same time with normal speed and you are almost immune to all kinds of DMG and CC. This is perfect tactic while waiting for your abilities CD's.
I have dueled 50+ people with my level60 long sword and i don't have a single lose. At the end my HP is full at max.
The only duels i can't win are against other Long sword because the time just run out and its a Draw.

The best way to make the Longsword normal is to reduce the movement speed while guarding, reduce the block because its takes ages to take the whole block from Long sword.
And also they shouldn't be CC immune while guarding. Actually every class shouldn't be CC immune on guard. Not taking damage is fine but the knockbacks, knockdowns, slows and all kinds of CC should go through.

Also nerf a bit the healing skills, its way too OP.

Agreed. ^

Longsword is the only class that can jump into a 1v5 and escape with full health. That heal is too strong and the movement while blocking is too fast.

You don't even need to deal a lot of damage because when you're invincible and can constantly buff and support your troops, they'll be able to do most of the killing.

[Travy]

Originally posted by §ªṁþ§ºŋ:

Originally posted by Reigen:

The Long sword is not just OP, its GOD MODE. You can run with your shield and attack at same time with normal speed and you are almost immune to all kinds of DMG and CC. This is perfect tactic while waiting for your abilities CD's.
I have dueled 50+ people with my level60 long sword and i don't have a single lose. At the end my HP is full at max.
The only duels i can't win are against other Long sword because the time just run out and its a Draw.

The best way to make the Longsword normal is to reduce the movement speed while guarding, reduce the block because its takes ages to take the whole block from Long sword.
And also they shouldn't be CC immune while guarding. Actually every class shouldn't be CC immune on guard. Not taking damage is fine but the knockbacks, knockdowns, slows and all kinds of CC should go through.

Also nerf a bit the healing skills, its way too OP.

Agreed. ^

Longsword is the only class that can jump into a 1v5 and escape with full health. That heal is too strong and the movement while blocking is too fast.

You don't even need to deal a lot of damage because when you're invincible and can constantly buff and support your troops, they'll be able to do most of the killing.

sorry guys i cannot agree with you, all of yall who say long sword is op is lying. long sword and shield cannot hold its own against multiple players, no class can. plus the heal ability only heals 450 health every second, if i am low health ill get like 50% percent back, and ill stand no chance against a full health player equal tier. yes we do specialize in that 1 v 1 situation (i can personally stand up to most classes in a 1v1) but that does not make us OP, i cant hold against masses of troops either, and NO i cannot just walk up to archers and expect to survive, especially against high tier archers, since i have pretty poor reach i cant kill them all in one swing so i get shot in the back and DIE. long sword and shield is not OP its the player experience and equipment that does the damage.

[Elysion]

Nerf rock its OP, paper is balanced :^)

Have you tried playing longsword? It has strenghts but you arent going to get anywhere near as many unit kills as something like glaive. The most defensive build gives you practically no damage output.

If you nerf its tankyness you will need to buff its damage output.

There are some weaker weapons like shortbow that need buffs. Other weapons that are not really weak but are kind of screwy like musket could use a rework to make them feel better to play.
Ive not played dual blades so maybe it needs buffs, but of the weapons i have played i dont consider longsword to be significantly stronger, its just got a very straightforward and easy to employ set of strenghts so it often meets its potential easier in the hands of the average player.

[UwU]

As a tank-lover totally biased on this topic I'm gonna add my few grams of refined salt: git gud.

Tanks rocks, DPS are for nubs that need to kill in less one sec so they do not have to deal with ppl

[Haddon]

I am finding longsword is awful until you get those heals, and even with the first tier of heals it still isn't great. However, having a long on my team that has the aoe heal, with my heal in between, is incredible. But we have a downside; I get like half the kills using my long as I do using my glaive. Both troop and hero. A big part of that is simple reach of the other weapons, who can hit 2x as many enemies as I can most of the time. Longsword supports troops, and works great as a line breaker combined with pikes or xbows/guns, but we are vulnerable to pikesdue to our lack of reach and speed.

Also, our attack skills, except that we get healed per enemy hit with 1, are sub-par.

[Arcanum]

Longsword aoe heals are op I think and that charging ultimate which just wrecks shieldwall and skyrockets the dmg done. Longsword with ulti can get crazy amounts of dmg vs units also...Heal cooldown or strength something must be changed, also crazy shield capabilities (as mentioned above in comments). Still some classes like shortbow are totals shait while others are flat out better in almost all situations.

[Zerixar]

I'm not convinced that longsword or shortsword are imbalanced. I've played both to the point of having ults on both, but I main glaive and have been playing poleaxe lately. Yes shortsword has a lot of cc (but bad range and damage and no heals) and longsword has great sustain from heals with a little bit of cc (but bad damage and a bad run attack with bad lock on that makes it constantly miss that you can't turn off).

They both really shine as strong assists to a team, where a shortsword can cc and the team can kill, or the longsword can tank and heal the team with their aoe heal.

I had an amusing match in deathmatch last nigh where the ENTIRE enemy team was longswords and shortswords. So much knockdown and healing it was nuts. Team of solo queuers still beat them by 12 points though because once you survived the cc they didn't have the damage to kill anything.

Anyway, I think they are balanced, strong in their roles, and in a good and fair place as a class right now.

[Zerixar]

Originally posted by glaphen:

Originally posted by Zerixar:

I'm not convinced that longsword or shortsword are imbalanced. I've played both to the point of having ults on both, but I main glaive and have been playing poleaxe lately. Yes shortsword has a lot of cc (but bad range and damage and no heals) and longsword has great sustain from heals with a little bit of cc (but bad damage and a bad run attack with bad lock on that makes it constantly miss that you can't turn off).

They both really shine as strong assists to a team, where a shortsword can cc and the team can kill, or the longsword can tank and heal the team with their aoe heal.

I had an amusing match in deathmatch last nigh where the ENTIRE enemy team was longswords and shortswords. So much knockdown and healing it was nuts. Team of solo queuers still beat them by 12 points though because once you survived the cc they didn't have the damage to kill anything.

Anyway, I think they are balanced, strong in their roles, and in a good and fair place as a class right now.

Short Sword does not lack range, they are the best chasers in the game, with shield throw and charge what more do you need, damage wise they do over 60% of my life in one unavoidable combo and I have 550 armor, alone, only Nodachi and Long Sword even have heals.

I am sure the death match was just bads that didn't stay together, solo zergs. I've had a game where my team was 12/2 in first minute and a half, if they have even a fraction of that teams negative skill, they are going to always lose regardless of class.

What I mean by range is after they've ccd, to get up and hit you to actually do damage they have to be really close which means in the constant lag it's really easy to miss hits. Even the follow up slash from the charge misses half the time because the enemy is knocked down farther than the hit reaches. Their main damage combo is easily stagger broken or rolled out of. They don't do much damage. Sure there's shield throw, but it barely does any damage and mainly functions as a slow. Many people don't even run shield throw because there's no room for it on the skill bar if you take the main damage combo, the charge and the 80% damage resistance. Ah. They have a lot of cc, but their reach and damage are low.

[Veolfen]

Still, you all complain about the fact you can't "1V1" a longsword & shield, meanwhile you 1v1 whiners are all forgetting the fact pointed at by others : you can't push with longsword & shield or shortsword & shield, and this game isn't about 1v1s.
Long&Shortsword & shields have no cleaning, you take a whole century to clean troops with those..
The only thing i can see a bit too "strong" is the AOE heal but :

No one here mentions the fact that you can give +50% damages to your troops and yourself with guandao ? This combined with your AOE you are able to oneshot all the low armor troops (archers & low tier units), while hitting hard the other type of troops ? And even with those, you're still decent in duel.

No one mentions the Nodachi that gives you full health with 3 attacks ? While keeping a decent cleaning and damage output ?

No one mentions the pole axe that has good cleaning, decent tankiness (heavy armor & a lot of ways to break out of ccs with skills) + who can also keep you on your ass till you die ?

No one mention that you can't reach a range player (especially Muskets) if they focus because they can dash out without draining stam, meaning they will always outstam melees ? etc..


No one mentions the lance that has a huge burst, nice AOE damages making it a good tool for everything ? A jack of all trades, not just "average" at everything but more "excellent at everything"

For me, i see different strengths that i have to respect. I actually don't fear the "longsword & shield" much because i know they won't come and OS me, nor they won't come and OS my troops.
When i see a l&s player flanking my archer, i always have the time to save most of them. Meanwhile even if i can see a guandao coming from a distance, if i don't OS his horse, he will just OS all my archers and than put up a good fight in duel too. Or he will just push your troops extremely fast with his 50% damage boost (because an instant 50% boost is better than a 10+36% over time heal, even tho the heal is very good too).
Etc....


I don't see why you should be able to kill a tank by yourself if he plays defensively, it's not like he will kill you in 2 secs, and it's not like he will destroy your waves if you ignore him.

I'd rather see buffes to some underwhelming classes like shortbow than nerfs to the identity of each class.

Units are more important than your hero, and this game is not about 1v1.

PS : Also even if you fight 3v1 an overstuffed longsword player, if you loose you just suck, because of how the stunlock works in this game, even a longsword & shield can't handle a 3 man burst combined with chained ccs.

[Kawaii Butterfly]

Originally posted by varnerta:

sorry guys i cannot agree with you, all of yall who say long sword is op is lying. long sword and shield cannot hold its own against multiple players, no class can. plus the heal ability only heals 450 health every second, if i am low health ill get like 50% percent back.....

Lmao, do you realize that you the ONLY class who can regen "OnLy 50 perCeNt bAcK" while others have to retreat and use the skill with 60 sec cooldown to regen the same amount of health? Yes, Nodachi can heal even better but it have to actually TAKE A RISK and deal damage, while you can hide from everything behind your shield. If Longsword would have damage and reach like glaive there wouldn't be any single reason to play any other class. And i wouldn't say that you have MUCH less damage in 1v1, which is ridiculous. Longswords have too much, and this is laughable how ppl defend it.

Originally posted by Veolfen:

No one here mentions the fact that you can give +50% damages to your troops and yourself with guandao ? This combined with your AOE you are able to oneshot all the low armor troops (archers & low tier units), while hitting hard the other type of troops ? And even with those, you're still decent in duel.

No one mentions the Nodachi that gives you full health with 3 attacks ? While keeping a decent cleaning and damage output ?

No one mentions the pole axe that has good cleaning, decent tankiness (heavy armor & a lot of ways to break out of ccs with skills) + who can also keep you on your ass till you die ?

No one mention that you can't reach a range player (especially Muskets) if they focus because they can dash out without draining stam, meaning they will always outstam melees ? etc..


No one mentions the lance that has a huge burst, nice AOE damages making it a good tool for everything ? A jack of all trades, not just "average" at everything but more "excellent at everything"

For me, i see different strengths that i have to respect. I actually don't fear the "longsword & shield" much because i know they won't come and OS me, nor they won't come and OS my troops.
When i see a l&s player flanking my archer, i always have the time to save most of them. Meanwhile even if i can see a guandao coming from a distance, if i don't OS his horse, he will just OS all my archers and than put up a good fight in duel too. Or he will just push your troops extremely fast with his 50% damage boost (because an instant 50% boost is better than a 10+36% over time heal, even tho the heal is very good too).
Etc....


I don't see why you should be able to kill a tank by yourself if he plays defensively, it's not like he will kill you in 2 secs, and it's not like he will destroy your waves if you ignore him.

I'd rather see buffes to some underwhelming classes like shortbow than nerfs to the identity of each class.

Units are more important than your hero, and this game is not about 1v1.

PS : Also even if you fight 3v1 an overstuffed longsword player, if you loose you just suck, because of how the stunlock works in this game, even a longsword & shield can't handle a 3 man burst combined with chained ccs.

While you made some decent and fair points, there is a number of mistakes:
For Glaive, it's only 10% output damage buff, which making it not worth picking. Decent in duel? Good longsword can just hide behind shield, till glaive spend it's abilities, after that it sucks against LS.
As i said above, Nodachi have to actually deal damage to heal, and since it's using medium armor, and can die after just one mistake.
Poleaxe is pretty annoying, but i didn't play it, so can't say much.
About spears - the only time i had troubles with them is when they bursted me from behind. Again, you can just wait till they spend their burst. After burst they got nothing.
Muskets can kite almost everyone, so it doesn't count.

Yes, LS wont "OS" you, but he and his allies and troops will be full health while killing your troops when other classes will have to retreat just to survive.

[Zerixar]

Originally posted by glaphen:

Originally posted by Zerixar:

What I mean by range is after they've ccd, to get up and hit you to actually do damage they have to be really close which means in the constant lag it's really easy to miss hits. Even the follow up slash from the charge misses half the time because the enemy is knocked down farther than the hit reaches. Their main damage combo is easily stagger broken or rolled out of. They don't do much damage. Sure there's shield throw, but it barely does any damage and mainly functions as a slow. Many people don't even run shield throw because there's no room for it on the skill bar if you take the main damage combo, the charge and the 80% damage resistance. Ah. They have a lot of cc, but their reach and damage are low.

Not sure what you mean by main damage combo, if you mean basic attack, that happens for every weapon, if you mean a skill, they are knockdowned and can't remove it. Shield throw does insane damage for the speed, fastest skill in the game, I mean really what were they thinking making it so ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ fast, 2 flinches and at least 1.5k damage on an 8 second cooldown, my best skill does less than that on the same cooldown as Short Bow and I don't get a massive slow and speed boost. Ultimate is another skill you are forgetting and it is same unavoidable CC, reach is really not that big of a deal, shield throw and it's impossible to escape the sprint attack spam, which has not really a reach difference between weapons, at least it is always further than dodges. Their damage really isn't low, unless you are using Iron Sides during your damage, but that is your fault.

no i mean the shield bash skill chain which is their main "damage" skill. i dunno what to tell you man, i've played it and it was a cc monster but meh at killing, and i've never had problems dealing with them as other classes.

[Alorie]

Bumping to keep this somewhat relevant.
I totally agree that these two weapons are really strong, I've seen whole units of mine getting killed by those guys who never seem to get any damage, I've seen them escaping with their last bit of health just with blocking every single thing, I've been "thrown down" by Shortsword+Shield more times than I can count and bashed to death because throwdown prevents you from doing literally anything, you have to painfully watch your character getting back up on their feet.
I play Nodachi and was really excited to have this knockdown effect on that one skill, but for some reason this does not prevent any enemy from just dodge-rolling away. Why are things even different, this is just weird.
Also Longsword+Shield are just painfull to play against, they're just too invulnerable. They can even block the rockets from the rocket launcher ffs, which mows down everyone else.

[Brother Frank]

Longsword is fine, the only thing that currently needs nerfed is overall ult damage, and shortsword shield charge's knockdown specifically.

Sprint attacks in general need toned down, but this is an issue with every single weapon not just a certain one.

Originally posted by Alorie:

I play Nodachi and was really excited to have this knockdown effect on that one skill, but for some reason this does not prevent any enemy from just dodge-rolling away.

Its funny, because you can roll out of every single ability that has the ability to do "knockdowns" except for the spear's knockdown (which is hard to hit) and the shortsword's knockdown (which is actually impossible to miss,) and I would say the glaive is also like this, but its a stun+knockdown on warlord's greeting so its not really the same.

[Fryskar]

Fighting multiple shieldusers is more fun, if one gets low he can hide behind the others/their units until he's at least half full before jumping in again.
Sure you can kill them, if your allies manage to coordinate stuns and bursts right.
Bonus points if they mix short and longsword.