Industrial Complex strategy

[enry1977]

Usually do you buy new industrial complex?

When I'm Axis I buy always in Manchuria with Japan on the first turn. Later I like to buy one for Germany in Egypt if I manage to conquer it.

When I'm Allies I like to buy one in Norway when and if I capture it. To defend Africa I like to buy another one in Egypt or South Africa with United Kingdom.

[Juggernaut]

Norway IC as USA pretty much every game as KGF, although its not strictly necessary. As Japan a case can be made for Kwangtung, DEI, Kazakhstan, and/or Egypt, depending on how the board develops. I have yet to be impressed by Japan IC in French Indochina and usually consider it to be a free win if I see my opp do this. Almost every KGF game as Japan there's at least 1 extra IC to Manchuria.
As UK its almost always a bad idea to IC Africa, as its 1 turn away from a US 12 plex and Japan could capture it anyway. You rarely have enough income to deal with both Europe and Africa as UK, nor should you even if you do. Put the extra income to bombers and trade against German income directly.
As US in KJF I have seen plexes anywhere 2 or higher in southeast Asia, particularly the islands. I have yet to lose against the Alaska IC, I don't think this is good.
As Germany and Russia ICs are always bad, as UK they are just usually bad. A German complex in Africa just kills Germany faster against a competent allies player. They'll shuck to the med and pin you by round 4, and you'll be stuck building there while they ignore you and trade everything in Europe.

[gbelle]

Russia- Never
Germany- Never
UK- Norway after India has fallen, or the turn I decide to pull out.
Japan- Manchuria on turn 3 possibly delayed to turn 4 in a KGF first game. If allies are playing KJP then only a Manchuria factory after you have won the pacific war.
Usa- France if you ever manage to hold it for a turn.

[enry1977]

Originally posted by Juggernaut:

Norway IC as USA pretty much every game as KGF, although its not strictly necessary. As Japan a case can be made for Kwangtung, DEI, Kazakhstan, and/or Egypt, depending on how the board develops. I have yet to be impressed by Japan IC in French Indochina and usually consider it to be a free win if I see my opp do this. Almost every KGF game as Japan there's at least 1 extra IC to Manchuria.
As UK its almost always a bad idea to IC Africa, as its 1 turn away from a US 12 plex and Japan could capture it anyway. You rarely have enough income to deal with both Europe and Africa as UK, nor should you even if you do. Put the extra income to bombers and trade against German income directly.
As US in KJF I have seen plexes anywhere 2 or higher in southeast Asia, particularly the islands. I have yet to lose against the Alaska IC, I don't think this is good.
As Germany and Russia ICs are always bad, as UK they are just usually bad. A German complex in Africa just kills Germany faster against a competent allies player. They'll shuck to the med and pin you by round 4, and you'll be stuck building there while they ignore you and trade everything in Europe.

Thanks for infos. Often I saw Allied players to build on Asian Island, i never fully understand it because it can be very hard to deploy ground units on the continent.

[enry1977]

Originally posted by gbelle:

Russia- Never
Germany- Never
UK- Norway after India has fallen, or the turn I decide to pull out.
Japan- Manchuria on turn 3 possibly delayed to turn 4 in a KGF first game. If allies are playing KJP then only a Manchuria factory after you have won the pacific war.
Usa- France if you ever manage to hold it for a turn.

Thanks. UK Norway seems not so useful, with trasports you can deploy units in Europe every turn.

[rocky1242]

The Norway IC as USA is pretty much essential if the axis are building air. ICs are good for Japan, but I typically don't build one first round.

[Gurden]

I build as US in Norway, and West Russia if I manage to push in there.

And I build as Japan (unless Allies does KJF) first in Manchuria turn 2, then East Indies or Kwangtung turn 3 (depends on how heavily UK bought planes for India) and finally the other turn 4 or 5, depending in ICP's.
The East Indies is amazing for first taking India and then flooding Caucasus.

[gbelle]

Uk Norway is to maximize production. In Britain you can only produce 8 and you will have more ipc's to spend with only cap of 8, so Norway increases the cap to 10. As for the location, it is safe. If you build it in Africa then it could be taken by Japan. Note this is only built AFTER India as fallen. Cant build in Egypt, Japan would take it right away. South Africa? not practical. It is out of the way and also Japan could take it with a bit of work.

[enry1977]

Originally posted by gbelle:

Uk Norway is to maximize production. In Britain you can only produce 8 and you will have more ipc's to spend with only cap of 8, so Norway increases the cap to 10. As for the location, it is safe. If you build it in Africa then it could be taken by Japan. Note this is only built AFTER India as fallen. Cant build in Egypt, Japan would take it right away. South Africa? not practical. It is out of the way and also Japan could take it with a bit of work.

Right, about units limits for UK. For Africa Japan could get it, but when I lost Africa with UK usually I'm in trouble.

[simon_hibbs]

If Germany commits to funnelling units into Africa, I do sometimes buy a South Africa IC. The way I se it, the UK's role is to trade units with Germany, preserving as many US units as possible for a big push against Germany. Once the US is on the European mainland, that's Russia's role as well. Attrition Germany, for a US knock out blow.

But then if Germany commits to draining 2 units a turn into Africa, Allies are playing on easy mode.

[ReoHays]

Germany can send all the units it wants to Africa, the game is not won or lost there. Sometimes I will not kill the G-BB in the med, just so they can keep shucking into Africa. The US can match with the med and the allies can afford this, the Axis can not. Most Axis games are lost because Japan goes for Africa and Island hopping to quickly and gives the momentum back to the Allies. The Axis have the momentum at the start of the game and it is up to them to keep it.

[oddball]

Originally posted by ReoHays:

Germany can send all the units it wants to Africa, the game is not won or lost there. Sometimes I will not kill the G-BB in the med, just so they can keep shucking into Africa. The US can match with the med and the allies can afford this, the Axis can not. Most Axis games are lost because Japan goes for Africa and Island hopping to quickly and gives the momentum back to the Allies. The Axis have the momentum at the start of the game and it is up to them to keep it.

Disagree with this. Germany sending units to Africa pays for itself. Every turn German holds North Africa is +5 IPCs - that almost pays for the 2 inf per turn. And if US/UK don't send units to counter Germany can rapidly take almost all of Africa at which point German is getting 50+ IPCs per turn and becomes unstoppable in Europe.

Leaving German battleship and transport is a big mistake in my view. I don;t think I've ever lost a game where I have been allowed to shuttle units to Africa for more than a couple of turns.

[Gurden]

Originally posted by oddball:

Disagree with this. Germany sending units to Africa pays for itself. Every turn German holds North Africa is +5 IPCs - that almost pays for the 2 inf per turn. And if US/UK don't send units to counter Germany can rapidly take almost all of Africa at which point German is getting 50+ IPCs per turn and becomes unstoppable in Europe.

Leaving German battleship and transport is a big mistake in my view. I don;t think I've ever lost a game where I have been allowed to shuttle units to Africa for more than a couple of turns.

And people forget that 1 ICP, that stays your ICP, is actually 2 ICPS. 1 for Germany, and 1 that you deny UK.
Germany holding starting 3 ICP and Eqypt, is 10 ICP of difference every single turn, that is massive, and well worth 2 infantry every turn.

[Juggernaut]

Originally posted by Gurden:

And people forget that 1 ICP, that stays your ICP, is actually 2 ICPS. 1 for Germany, and 1 that you deny UK.
Germany holding starting 3 ICP and Eqypt, is 10 ICP of difference every single turn, that is massive, and well worth 2 infantry every turn.

++ This x 10000. Number one most overlooked thing is IPC swing. No comment on the worth of infantry to Africa, as this can also be impacted by tempo and other considerations other than pure IPC swing.

[simon_hibbs]

Originally posted by oddball:

Disagree with this. Germany sending units to Africa pays for itself.

It takes too long. It's not so much about income as momentum. They usually send a fighter or two as well which means weaker trading against Russia, and UK fighters and a bomber are right there in India to counter.

Germany and Japan have to put the squeeze on Russia early, if they don't they'll be stalemated and a competent US player will have a stack in Finland or France by turn 4 or 5 and the chance for Axis to take Moscow will rapidly slip away. Against Axis players that committed to Africa I probably win 5 games out of 6.