If moscow falls,,,

[Jonny B God]

Like out of 100 games..
How many of thoose you think allies win, if Moscow is taken, and allies dont take germany/japan the same or next turn?

My opinion is like 2-out of 100..

Point is,,, is it any point at all when it comes to winning or not, to spend time playing after Moscow falls?

[Danielos Andersoni]

I think you should play on longer in any case. It is not fair to the Axis player to just abruptly leave after Moscow falls.

Yes, it is rare but once when I was Japan the German player took Moscow early. But the allies later managed to capture Berlin. Time is important! Since allies will have lower production they need to act quickly to even the odds!

[Ris Dnalor]

Allies can definitely win after Moscow falls. It depends on the situation under which it falls. Some Allied strategies actually include abandoning Moscow just before it falls, and sweeping a large Russian force Eastward through Asia while US focuses on taking out Japan a few rounds after Moscow falls.

I have actually won a couple times after both Moscow and London fell. It has been rare, but then it's also rare for London to fall.

[montrealsteak]

The allies can win without moscow if the US takes the money islands and asia and if Germany is denied africa income. Africa is key .

[Ris Dnalor]

Първоначално публикувано от montrealsteak:

The allies can win without moscow if the US takes the money islands and asia and if Germany is denied africa income. Africa is key .

I like to leave the German Mediterranean fleet alone, and coax Germany into dumping IPCs into trying to capture Africa for as along as I can. Takes some heat off of Russia, so they can annoy Japan a bit more.

[montrealsteak]

Първоначално публикувано от Ris Dnalor:

Първоначално публикувано от montrealsteak:

The allies can win without moscow if the US takes the money islands and asia and if Germany is denied africa income. Africa is key .

I like to leave the German Mediterranean fleet alone, and coax Germany into dumping IPCs into trying to capture Africa for as along as I can. Takes some heat off of Russia, so they can annoy Japan a bit more.

It can be a mistake for Germany to over invest in Africa. But the G BB and trans can also send units to Ukraine and caucuses. And one off load into Africa can mean G income during the early rounds.

In kjf G can afford to take Africa in force and hold it long term which is deadly.

[Ris Dnalor]

Първоначално публикувано от montrealsteak:

Първоначално публикувано от Ris Dnalor:

I like to leave the German Mediterranean fleet alone, and coax Germany into dumping IPCs into trying to capture Africa for as along as I can. Takes some heat off of Russia, so they can annoy Japan a bit more.

It can be a mistake for Germany to over invest in Africa. But the G BB and trans can also send units to Ukraine and caucuses. And one off load into Africa can mean G income during the early rounds.

In kjf G can afford to take Africa in force and hold it long term which is deadly.

Aye, it's just math for me. If Germany is sending more IPCs to Africa than it is making from Africa I leave the med. fleet alone. I'll dump an IC in South Africa as bait as well sometimes. If Germany leaves Africa alone, then that IC can pump units north. If it doesn't I can use the African earned IPCs to use the infantry supporting by some fighters that hop between Africa and Asia to create a stalemate in Africa that is only broken by over investment on Germany's part. Being aware of the potential amphibious assaults on is enough to avoid being taken by surprise with it.

[montrealsteak]

Първоначално публикувано от Ris Dnalor:

Първоначално публикувано от montrealsteak:

It can be a mistake for Germany to over invest in Africa. But the G BB and trans can also send units to Ukraine and caucuses. And one off load into Africa can mean G income during the early rounds.

In kjf G can afford to take Africa in force and hold it long term which is deadly.

Aye, it's just math for me. If Germany is sending more IPCs to Africa than it is making from Africa I leave the med. fleet alone. I'll dump an IC in South Africa as bait as well sometimes. If Germany leaves Africa alone, then that IC can pump units north. If it doesn't I can use the African earned IPCs to use the infantry supporting by some fighters that hop between Africa and Asia to create a stalemate in Africa that is only broken by over investment on Germany's part. Being aware of the potential amphibious assaults on is enough to avoid being taken by surprise with it.

I play mostly allies so I don't see a lot of other allied players. Are people doing mostly KJF? I mostly do KGF so I rarely see G push hard into africa excapt for maybe the first two rounds.

[Roland, Frisky Cow]

If Germany takes Moscow in a KGF, then you fundamentally misplayed or got super unlucky.
If Japan takes Moscow in a KGF, and Berlin falls within two turns, Allies usually still win.
If Germany takes Moscow in a KJF, this is standard/expected, since Allied are playing the long game income battle.
Screenshot of a long game where Moscow fell on round 7, Allies have the advantage: https://imgur.com/fxlebKl

[Jonny B God]

Ok, cool with some thoughts from you guys, thou many are bit off topic and circumstancial.. I wasnt asking about the exceptions, I was asking about the main rule, as it seems to me that by far, if moscow falls, game is usually "over" .

[Ris Dnalor]

Първоначално публикувано от Jonny B God:

Ok, cool with some thoughts from you guys, thou many are bit off topic and circumstancial.. I wasnt asking about the exceptions, I was asking about the main rule, as it seems to me that by far, if moscow falls, game is usually "over" .

If it seems to you like the game is over once Moscow falls, then you just haven't played against an allied strategy, usually one focused on Japan first, that is not really adversely affected by Moscow falling. It's quite common in fact for moscow to fall and the game still be won by the allies.

In fact the only way I would forfeit as Allies after losing Moscow would be if someone tried to take it on very slim odds and got very lucky pretty early in the game. But that is rarely done, in my experience, and even more rarely successful.

[Tomaster]

In some games especially when im facing a strong german defense I find it's better if Moscow falls. This allows usa and UK to take the Caucasuses and karellia which makes it easier to establish troops in Europe for both nations without the need for vulnerable transports and costly navy. 1 other thing I see often is a lack of uk naval presence in the pacific. I find a balanced approach in both the Atlantic and pacific keeps Japan busy, and keeps Germany honest. Pressuring Japan really absorbs their resources and leaves Asia wide open to be reclaimed by a couple tanks and infantry boosting ipcs for UK and USA.
The key to winning as allies is to have a balanced, coordinated 2 prong approach. So many players claim usa and UK need to pressure Germany alone. This leaves Japan free to grow into a substantial threat

[Clionerd]

On the other hand:

Just the other day I lost playing Allies despite the fact that Moscow never fell. Axis made up their VP elsewhere. Just one of those great quirks of A&A that Hawai'i equals Russia.

[Redwood]

Първоначално публикувано от Clionerd:

On the other hand:

Just the other day I lost playing Allies despite the fact that Moscow never fell. Axis made up their VP elsewhere. Just one of those great quirks of A&A that Hawai'i equals Russia.

No wonder the Japanese were after Hawaii!

[zolobolo]

Indeed I havent seen a case where Allies won without keeping Moscow :)
It pretty much is imperative that USSR holds onto that region

But in general we can say that (in the base mode) the Axis are in a clear advantage and capturing Moscow i just a side-effect of this

Logically, if the Axis are controlling middle Asia- there is no real way of containing them as they can outproduce the allies from there if needed
This is due to two facts:
1. Lots of production capacity there
2. Capturing central Asia means USSR is out and thus the Allies loose 33%of their punching power :)

Now with the rebalanced edition its much better but Moscow is still a good indicator there as well who will win
I think this will only change if there will be additional key areas to control (convoy routes, China, Australia etc)

[verhlord]

I lost an Axis game where I got Moscow turn 6. I didn't realise the opponent went full KJF and lost the Japanese fleet and Money Islands, could never get India but if I had realised earlier I could've won easily.
So losing Moscow and winning as Allies is possible, not sure how often it happens at Platinum though.