submarine sneak attack

[studmaverick]

In the board game, you are able to move into a zone with a submarine and do a sneak attach then move out as long as there were no destroyers in that zone. Can this be done in the online version? If so, how do I go about and do this? thanks

[Virtus]

I do not recall being able to do this in the board game, there were no sub 'blitzes' iirc.

[aardvarkpepper]

studmaverick lähetti viestin:

In the board game, you are able to move into a zone with a submarine and do a sneak attach then move out as long as there were no destroyers in that zone. Can this be done in the online version? If so, how do I go about and do this? thanks

The described situation is not in the board game rules, unless there are additional factors that you didn't mention.

individualistds lähetti viestin:

I don't think subs could withdraw after scoring a hit if there are remaining defenders. Any hit the sub scores must be assigned to a unit that cannot then fire a "dying blow" but the sub cannot then retreat before any remaining units have their shot

Again, it depends on what else is happening.

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1. If you move submarine(s) into a zone during combat movement to attack, if in the combat phase there is no enemy destroyer defending in that sea zone, the attacking submarine(s) have sneak attack as is normal when there is no enemy destroyer defending.

2. If the attacking submarines destroy all the defenders, the submarines cannot move away. When all attackers or defenders are destroyed, the survivors don't move.

3. If the attacking submarines did NOT destroy all the defenders (and the attackers weren't all destroyed either), the submarines could retreat per the usual rules for retreating. All naval units (submarines included) would have to retreat to a sea zone that at least one attacking naval unit that had attacked the contested territory in question had come from. You couldn't send the submarines to one location and other naval units elsewhere, all would have to retreat to the same territory.

4. "In the board game . . . do a sneak attack then move out . . . no destroyers in that zone". So yes, technically, if there were no enemy destroyers defending, you could do a sneak attack, then IF NOT ALL DEFENDERS WERE DESTROYED then you could retreat, so you could in effect move out. But you couldn't just move wherever. It would have to be part of the retreat.

5. "don't think subs could withdraw after scoring a hit if there are remaining defenders". Attacking submarines can submerge if there are no defending destroyers. Attacking submarines can retreat if A) not all defenders are destroyed, B) *after* the combat round is completed (that is, surviving defenders have had a chance to fire).

But then there's some other things. Like yes, "sub cannot then retreat before any remaining units have their shot". But they CAN submerge (if no defending destroyers remaining) or retreat after those shots are fired. Probably you meant that but I figured I'd address it for other readers.

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6. If attacker has a load of submarines (only) and defender has carrier/fighters (only) say the subs wipe out the carriers. The defending fighters can't hit the submarines. But technically the fighters are still present and can still fire (they just can't hit anything). Then the attacking subs could retreat per the normal rules for retreat.

7. In some situations (mostly the sea zone west of Japan when it does happen) you may be unable to retreat per the rules, if all attacking naval units had started in the contested sea zone and didn't make any movement during combat movement. (They can take the "retreat" action but there's no eligible zone to retreat *to*. Which I think shows up as a loop in 1942 Online last I checked though that was a while ago, maybe they fixed it or maybe I remember wrong and it wasn't an issue. Anyways normally an attacker can get around this by moving naval units to different zones first *then* into the contested sea zone, but if the contested sea zone in question is surrounded by sea zones that each contain enemy surface warships - well.

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8. To answer OP - any submerging subs are removed from combat and will remain in the sea zone, so don't submerge. You can only move the subs after the combat if they are eligible to retreat, which means defenders must survive (even if they're fighters that can't hit your subs), and you must move to a zone that a naval unit had attacked the contested sea zone from. For this retreat movement it doesn't matter if the defenders have surviving destroyers or not. If both attackers and defenders survive, you can retreat attacking submarines regardless of the presence of defending destroyers. (You cannot SUBMERGE attacking submarines if there are defending destroyers but you CAN RETREAT).

How you do it in game - don't submerge, and at the end of a round of combat you can retreat as described. There should be an option. Remember the stipulations. You must retreat to a zone that an attacker had come from (if you didn't move any of the naval units into the contested sea zone to begin with you can't really retreat, and I think the game locks you in a loop if you try). It's a retreat movement, it's not a movement to wherever you want to go, it's not like tank blitzing. There must be surviving defenders (if there weren't you're stuck where you are). Surviving defenders get their shots off; you can only retreat *after* the surviving defenders fire.

[studmaverick]

I wasn't asking if the board game had it or not, as I know it has it since I have all the Axis and Allies board games from 1941 first edition to the 1942 second edition and I'm looking at it right now and it states that a submarine in an adjacent zone may sneak attack without retaliation as long as their are no enemy destroyers in that zone. By the way. the online game does have the sneak attack, as I found it. When you attack with your submarines and if there are NO enemy destroyers in that zone, you will see, right after you confirm you do not want to submerge that it states "Submarine surprise attack". If you hit your target there will be no defender attack. I'm sure you've never played the actual board game which is all we had when I was growing up. Advantage of being old I guess!

[aardvarkpepper]

studmaverick lähetti viestin:

I wasn't asking if the board game had it or not,

Whether you intended to give a confusing impression or not, here's what you wrote.

studmaverick lähetti viestin:

In the board game, you are able to move into a zone with a submarine and do a sneak attach then move out as long as there were no destroyers in that zone. Can this be done in the online version? If so, how do I go about and do this? thanks

The description "move into a zone with a submarine and do a sneak attack then move out as long as there were no destroyers in that zone" does not adequately describe the situation. No matter how you look at it, relevant information is missing.

If you're talking about retreat movement for unsubmerged subs, sneak attack and destroyers are irrelevant to retreat eligibility and movement. But you also cited movement after the attack, which doesn't happen if you submerge. So you couldn't have been talking about retreat movement. Nor could you have been writing about submerging.

Considering things in that light, you will see why I thought it appropriate to write a complete reply, to address not just you, but other potential readers.

You will also note that I *did* reference (among other things) how to execute the actions in-game to retreat. So the question was well and thoroughly answered.

studmaverick lähetti viestin:

I'm sure you've never played the actual board game which is all we had when I was growing up.

At no point did I say that submarine sneak attack casualties had a chance to strike back. I said "the surviving defenders fire".

If submarine sneak attacks wipe out all defenders then the attackers get no movement after, per the usual rules for what happens when one side or the other is wiped out. Surviving non-air units stay in that zone.

[O Lucky Day O]

Yes, leaving the zone after the successful sneak attack has never been a rule in any AA version. This is is the part others were responding to after your initial question.

[studmaverick]

And you told me the sneak attack didn't exist and considering I never asked that you shouldn't have replied stating I was wrong and it didn't exist. In the board game, yes you can go into the zone fire and back out as long as a destroyer is not in the zone. I'm reading right off the rules as I've had these board games for over 30 years. So please if you are not responding to what I actually asked please keep your opinions to yourself. thanks

[Julius Borisov]

It's getting a bit hot here. I think the confusion and subsequent reactions came from the question itself.

Read about submarines in Axis & Allies 1942, 2nd Ed. here: https://media.wizards.com/2015/rules/AA_1942_rules.pdf

You can do that sneak attack only the following way: you enter the sea zone without a destroyer present, roll your sneak attack, then the enemy rolls their attack, misses, you retreat from combat.