This might be the weirdest question about strategy but...

[Dark_D_Shadow]

Is the strategy in this game just based on % chance to hit and nothing else ?
I've been playing on normal and then bumped it up to hard and now expert but the only thing I've noticed are stat buffs, no smarter tactics or new mechanics and no map strategies ?

Can the enemy not use spirit abilities or special moves or anything ?
Am I missing something here ?

I am also still very early in btw so maybe the challenge only starts later.

[lPaladinl]

SRW30 is not a challenging game, you won't find much of it anywhere.

Enemies can use Spirit Commands, the vast majority of them do not have any.

Terrain does affect accuracy and damage calculations, but it's so minor that you can almost always ignore it.

The Difficulty setting just tweaks stat numbers, and it doesn't solve the problems SRW30 has with lacking challenge. You still will outpace enemies in levels without effort, even more so if you use spirit commands to boost your gains (which at some point... what else are you going to use SP for?) Even if the game were to throw a challenging enemy at you, spirit commands solve everything.

[Dark_D_Shadow]

Originally posted by lPaladinl:

SRW30 is not a challenging game, you won't find much of it anywhere.

Enemies can use Spirit Commands, the vast majority of them do not have any.

Terrain does affect accuracy and damage calculations, but it's so minor that you can almost always ignore it.

The Difficulty setting just tweaks stat numbers, and it doesn't solve the problems SRW30 has with lacking challenge. You still will outpace enemies in levels without effort, even more so if you use spirit commands to boost your gains (which at some point... what else are you going to use SP for?) Even if the game were to throw a challenging enemy at you, spirit commands solve everything.

To be fair the spirit moves really are a bit OP I mean 100% dodge rate or 100% accuracy kinda makes the whole can't hit or be hit system mute...

I guess I should stick to SD Gundam which was more challenging to me haha.

[lPaladinl]

Originally posted by DarkShadowBe:

To be fair the spirit moves really are a bit OP I mean 100% dodge rate or 100% accuracy kinda makes the whole can't hit or be hit system mute...

I guess I should stick to SD Gundam which was more challenging to me haha.

Cross Rays was also pretty easy and suffers a similar problem of becoming overpowered too quickly. Link-Attacks when used appropriately trivialize the game. Support Attacks and Defense do at least provide some room for strategy, but it's almost never required. You have skills similar to Spirits in Cross Rays, but they're far more limited.

However if you even just go back to Genesis you'll find a more challenging game. Whereas SRW hasn't been challenging for many more releases (I know at least V, X and T are pretty easy.)

[Dark_D_Shadow]

Originally posted by lPaladinl:

Originally posted by DarkShadowBe:

To be fair the spirit moves really are a bit OP I mean 100% dodge rate or 100% accuracy kinda makes the whole can't hit or be hit system mute...

I guess I should stick to SD Gundam which was more challenging to me haha.

Cross Rays was also pretty easy and suffers a similar problem of becoming overpowered too quickly. Link-Attacks when used appropriately trivialize the game. Support Attacks and Defense do at least provide some room for strategy, but it's almost never required. You have skills similar to Spirits in Cross Rays, but they're far more limited.

However if you even just go back to Genesis you'll find a more challenging game. Whereas SRW hasn't been challenging for many more releases (I know at least V, X and T are pretty easy.)

Haha I actually was talking about Genesis because I've got that one on Switch. Cross Rays I don't remember haven't played that one in long while. Also I'm no strategy pro so I do believe I must be over reacting on SRW 30 because I am at the start doing all character unlock missions I bet later there must be some kind of difficulty to be found even if it's not a difficult game I mean I've never even seen a enemy use a Spirit skill. Lol.

[lPaladinl]

I don't mind strategy games becoming easy, but I wish they did a better job providing higher difficulty modes, especially for NG+ runs, so that you still have something to work towards. I can play SRW30 on the new Super Expert from the start and it's still just about as easy as it was on Expert, the range of how far the difficulty extends only went a few more stages before I was right back to "move forward, end turn, win" strategy.

I'm happy that we can hit level 200 now, but what's the point if I'm already overpowered by level 99?

I don't want the game to be torture in difficulty either, but we need something to keep interest going once you've leaped over the difficulty curve and into your own league of power ratings.

[Dark_D_Shadow]

Originally posted by lPaladinl:

I don't mind strategy games becoming easy, but I wish they did a better job providing higher difficulty modes, especially for NG+ runs, so that you still have something to work towards. I can play SRW30 on the new Super Expert from the start and it's still just about as easy as it was on Expert, the range of how far the difficulty extends only went a few more stages before I was right back to "move forward, end turn, win" strategy.

I'm happy that we can hit level 200 now, but what's the point if I'm already overpowered by level 99?

I don't want the game to be torture in difficulty either, but we need something to keep interest going once you've leaped over the difficulty curve and into your own league of power ratings.

I heard there used to be SR points that influenced difficulty but I don't know what those are I only played SRW 30 ?

[lPaladinl]

Originally posted by DarkShadowBe:

I heard there used to be SR points that influenced difficulty but I don't know what those are I only played SRW 30 ?

Yeah you used to need SR points to unlock difficulty modes, or otherwise it directly controlled your difficulty level. Expert was only available if you were able to get a certain amount of SR points.

In this, I think SR points failed, at least in V and X, as they did more to prevent you from accessing the higher difficulties than anything else.

What it did do that made the game a bit more interesting, was giving you extra mission conditions which forced you to think more strategically to accomplish them. Like destroy x amount of units by y turn, destroy a boss by x turn, do this amount of damage in one turn, etc.

However when most of them ended up being "win in 3-4 turns", they didn't really add anything, as you're already doing that regardless of whether or not you're trying to get SR points.

SRW30 just got rid of this system for better or worse. Having more side objectives probably would have made the game less monotonous and more fun.

[Dark_D_Shadow]

Originally posted by lPaladinl:

Originally posted by DarkShadowBe:

I heard there used to be SR points that influenced difficulty but I don't know what those are I only played SRW 30 ?

Yeah you used to need SR points to unlock difficulty modes, or otherwise it directly controlled your difficulty level. Expert was only available if you were able to get a certain amount of SR points.

In this, I think SR points failed, at least in V and X, as they did more to prevent you from accessing the higher difficulties than anything else.

What did do that made the game a bit more interesting, was giving you extra mission conditions which forced you to think more strategically to accomplish them. Like destroy x amount of units by y turn, destroy a boss by x turn, do this amount of damage in one turn, etc.

However when most of them ended up being "win in 3-4 turns", they didn't really add anything, as you're already doing that regardless of whether or not you're trying to get SR points.

SRW30 just got rid of this system for better or worse. Having more side objectives probably would have made the game less monotonous and more fun.

I guess they made the game more friendly for newcomers to the genre so that they could attract more ppl. They did add more stuff but like you said it's not enough unfortunately. Maybe the next game they'll have a better balance.

[Totem]

To be fair, this game is meant to be a celebration of 30 years worth of games. It's really not meant to be challenging in the traditional sense. It's meant to be fun!

You can play with whatever units you want in whatever way you want.

You can take the weakest units in the game, supe them up with all kinds of abilities stats, and make them demolish everything anyway.

Hell, while in most SRWs it's typically a bad thing to upgrade just one unit compared to spreading out the upgrades among all your favorite units, in this game you can absolutely solo the entire game with just ONE UNIT from your roster because the game's mechanics ALLOW YOU TO DO THAT. (Granted, in some games you can still do that, but that's typically after going through a very long set of requirements to get one really powerful unit, or it's just straight up the end game/New game plus)

In short, what I'm arguing here is that challenge is secondary in this particular game because it allows you to play however you want. It wasn't meant to be a balanced experience in the first place, especially with the DLCs adding somewhere around 30 or so units by themselves.

IF you're looking for a real challenge though, play some of the older games. There's several english fan-translated ones out there that you can emulate. alternatively, I heard SRW T is decently hard on Super Expert mode.

[Purple Sauce]

Originally posted by lPaladinl:

Originally posted by DarkShadowBe:

To be fair the spirit moves really are a bit OP I mean 100% dodge rate or 100% accuracy kinda makes the whole can't hit or be hit system mute...

I guess I should stick to SD Gundam which was more challenging to me haha.

Cross Rays was also pretty easy and suffers a similar problem of becoming overpowered too quickly. Link-Attacks when used appropriately trivialize the game. Support Attacks and Defense do at least provide some room for strategy, but it's almost never required. You have skills similar to Spirits in Cross Rays, but they're far more limited.

However if you even just go back to Genesis you'll find a more challenging game. Whereas SRW hasn't been challenging for many more releases (I know at least V, X and T are pretty easy.)

wut? You clearly haven't played the end game for cross rays yet then. . . the inferno levels were tweaked so you need the max level to be even remotely useful as you get closer to 80+. Just to hit the max level on the first mission you need to be at least level 400. . . That takes a very very long time to acquire. You can also modify the games difficulty any way you like by allocating your stats variously.

[Purple Sauce]

Newer SRW games are not made to be a challenge, if you want a challenge go play all 3 of the OG generations which will kick your a** if you don't know what you are doing and it won't tell you what to do either.

Edit: Also in OG they DO use spirit techniques at certain times and some mechs come with permanent flash and bullseye activated at the start of every turn. There is also no SP generation in the older SRWs unless you upgrade your pilot to have it or if the pilot comes with it. You're also no going to be doing much damage to bosses solo, you're going to have to use your ship to resupply your energy and ammo reserves often, and it's not even a good idea to attempt hard mode until you've run through normal twice unless you have a death with like I did and you don't mind save scumming.

[lPaladinl]

Originally posted by Delimon:

Originally posted by lPaladinl:

Cross Rays was also pretty easy and suffers a similar problem of becoming overpowered too quickly. Link-Attacks when used appropriately trivialize the game. Support Attacks and Defense do at least provide some room for strategy, but it's almost never required. You have skills similar to Spirits in Cross Rays, but they're far more limited.

However if you even just go back to Genesis you'll find a more challenging game. Whereas SRW hasn't been challenging for many more releases (I know at least V, X and T are pretty easy.)

wut? You clearly haven't played the end game for cross rays yet then. . . the inferno levels were tweaked so you need the max level to be even remotely useful as you get closer to 80+. Just to hit the max level on the first mission you need to be at least level 400. . . That takes a very very long time to acquire. You can also modify the games difficulty any way you like by allocating your stats variously.

I actually talked about this in another thread on these forums. Yes, I have played the end game for Cross Rays. I have 100% of all achievements for the game (and it's the only game on Steam I have ever done so) with around 700 hours put into it on multiple playthroughs.

What I haven't done, is actually 100% Inferno. I've made it to around level 600+ on my first playthrough. I've since decided to start new playthroughs instead of finishing all of Inferno.

And no, you do not need to be level 80+ to do the first stages in Inferno. If you max out your upgrades via Capital spending you will have around a minimum of 1,200 stats, You can technically clear the first levels at that point with careful strategy and planning. 1,400-1500 stats is more comfortable. And doing so at that point makes you exp gains incredibly high due to exp gains scaling based on your stats advantage over your targets. If you're going to go in with only 1,200 stats, then it's very useful to have support units to use support defend (and be able to repair) as well as using parts or ability modifiers that increase hit chance and evasion. You can pump up your accuracy far faster with recon parts than you can with raw stats in Inferno.

[Creep Gnome]

The endgame of Cross Rays is ""Hard"" in the same way Disgaea games are ""Hard"". Which is to say, they're not. The game is literally just a test of how efficiently you can grind. If your numbers aren't big enough yet, go back to a trivial mission and get those numbers up.

There's no strategic challenge beyond the very early parts of the game.

[Dark_D_Shadow]

Originally posted by Creep Gnome:

The endgame of Cross Rays is ""Hard"" in the same way Disgaea games are ""Hard"". Which is to say, they're not. The game is literally just a test of how efficiently you can grind. If your numbers aren't big enough yet, go back to a trivial mission and get those numbers up.

There's no strategic challenge beyond the very early parts of the game.

I do wonder though if you can win in other ways in the games mentioned than just brute strength because if you can that's technically a use a tactic or strategy lol.

I never made it far in Disgaea games because I always get confused about needing ways to exploit the game systems for exp or other resources :(

[rin-kun]

Originally posted by DarkShadowBe:

Is the strategy in this game just based on % chance to hit and nothing else ?
I've been playing on normal and then bumped it up to hard and now expert but the only thing I've noticed are stat buffs, no smarter tactics or new mechanics and no map strategies ?

Can the enemy not use spirit abilities or special moves or anything ?
Am I missing something here ?

I am also still very early in btw so maybe the challenge only starts later.

if u want some challenge and more strategis maybe you can play og line
i mean how many time i must reset for GET ♥♥♥♥*NG SECRET
and the terrain actually give you major effect unlike newer title
if you wanted more hard, play ex-hard mode on og line since they give you only for mech upgrade not the weapon