Don't play this like you do Ace Combat. Project Wingman wants to show you something better.

[Krystalmyth]

If David and Goliath took place in modern times, he'd be packing heat, wouldn't he?

Don't play this like you do Ace Combat. For years people have been playing these games in third person because your only legitimate option was first person HUD, and third-person to even be able to properly track targets, or using some auto-zoom function to see, since Ace either didn't have cockpit, or as in 7, completely reduces your control by using it. This isn't the case with Project Wingman.

Cockpit mode is completely functional. You don't need VR. You don't HOTAS. You don't need to feel like half your screen is hidden. You'll be gaining so much more. The connection to speed, the weight of each craft, the uniqueness of each cockpit conveying the language of its personality is well defined. You don't spend the amount of time RB has on this view, without love for it.

Even without VR, you can mad dog a target from nearly any angle with just the right stick, it fluidly moves, tracks regardless of your orientation. You can nod, and shake your head, with the right stick of a gamepad. It's that smooth.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmHkMzD3z8A
I'm serious.

You can turn off UI elements, because you have a fully rendered Radar display inside the cockpit. Your HUD is fully functional, with weapons systems and cooldown right in front of you.

Increase your cockpit sway to max, modify your FOV with ingame options well above 100, and get an immersive cockpit experience, with glass that reacts to condensation, rain and smoke (without the gimmicky restrictions like Ice) The sense of disorientation on a morning mist in the city, or a naval battle amidst an ocean squall is strangely enough, thrilling. Literally feeling the world go upside down in Eminent Domain, and the relief of seeing the sun instead of the waves, is truly something only this game has given me.

You can ascend well above 50000 feet. Much of the combat in this game is actually between 8000-24000 feet. The feeling of being in an intense storm so thick it looks like night, just to ascend to avoid enemy fighters and pierce the cloud cover to reveal a clear day at noon, diving in and out of a storm as you tail a target with the clouds whipping past the glass, is just, I mean. It's something else.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2g4Z1IUTx0&feature=youtu.be
Someone asked here recently, if there was more depth to this game than just getting behind people and shooting, and I was just floored...

You've never, ever, had dogfights like this in Ace. You'll never be asked to stay under 600 feet in a canyon filled with search lights. You're not going to be asked to keep a car safe in a city full of multimillion dollar war machines trying to kill it, or dive into shallow clouds to avoid being seen by satellites and permanent radar facilities literally designed for the region... This games depth isn't in its gimmicks, it's in its dogfighting. It's in its drama. It's too busy, trying to give you the best in-cockpit arcade experience against some of the smartest fighter AI in the genre to patronize you with a story about drones, and old men and little girls.

The cockpit view isn't decoration. It isn't an afterthought, or a hindrance. It isn't just there to give a cool feeling. It's meant to be played, hard. It is sincerely the only view for me in this game, and trust me, I understand why it may not have been for you at the start. Cockpit view is literally impossible to fully enjoy in Ace Combat 7 (due to poor FOV).

--If anything, Ace's third person view is better than Wingman.-- That should tell you something about what RB wants to truly offer you in his game, and I'd hate for some of you to miss it.

/// Edit: Actually just got pointed out that due to being able to go super low FOV, Wingman's third person is also better than Ace, especially for close-air-support missions. I have to admit, it's pretty cool. So Wingman wins at everything lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmTP6xgJgrw

[628]

Yes, PW is better in every single aspect. I hope AC8 will be console exclusive and die out.

[Baker]

I agree its super smooth and nice in cockpit view even without VR.
https://youtu.be/hoQLds9gOsM?t=54

[MetsaSketch]

What is 3rd person? :P

[KaMe]

+1. I usually play DCS but this game is the best thing when it comes to just jump in and have a blast and to satisfy that arcade itch. I just bought AC7 3 days ago to give it a chance but I refunded it pretty much after the second mission. Gameplay wise PW is just superior to AC7 in every way.

[Det.Bullock]

Ah, joke's on you I never played any Ace Combat in third person.

PS: AC7 cockpits often have fully functional altimeters and artificial horizons too, I played F-22 a lot in large parts because said instruments were visible even at the default cockpit view and they were a lot of help when flying inside clouds of fog when the HUD was less readable or busted by lightning.

[kudo]

this is my first flight game because i bought a logitech extreme 3d pro joystick. thanks to the kind folks on these forums i got it working with the game. i dont think i have ever seen the outside of my plane. if you disable the radar, the cockpit already has its own radar (though at times i had to adjust the fov to see all of it). im sure playing in 3rd person lets you see much more around you so maybe ill try it some day but its true, cockpit mode gives you everything you need. the interior hud is truly amazing!

i just completed the campaign last night for the first time. honestly this game has made me want a VR set more than ever, i can only imagine how this game feels with it

[John27]

Originally posted by KaMe:

+1. I usually play DCS but this game is the best thing when it comes to just jump in and have a blast and to satisfy that arcade itch. I just bought AC7 3 days ago to give it a chance but I refunded it pretty much after the second mission. Gameplay wise PW is just superior to AC7 in every way.

Well AC7 do cut a lot of features from previous Ace Combat games:
-Arcade Mode (only in AC5)
-Ace Style (only in ACZ)
-Squad Commands (introduced in AC5)
-Operations mode (introduced in AC6)
-Picture-in-picture video (introduced in AC6)
-Custom Coloring mode (introduced in Assault Horizon)

Here's hoping if PW has sequel, keep it as it is engine-wise to save development time, but:
-Introduce simple squad commands, just "form on my wing" and "engage at will"
-Introduce custom coloring if possible
-Of course, all new story.

And if you see i didn't "own" this game, i had this on GOG.

[JtDarth]

Yes, the camera controls in PW are vastly more smooth than in AC. My first playthrough of PW, with the exception of the final mission (froggy has enough problems on that mission without the situational awareness drop from cockpit view), were done entirely in cockpit.
The camera moves and tracks in a way that feels so natural it's not even funny. I was pivoting the camera onto targets without overshooting with no prior practice.

It's one of those 'little things' that turns out to be a gamechanger.

For me it had nothing to do with the hud and everything to do with the camera feeling.

[Krystalmyth]

Originally posted by Baker:

I agree its super smooth and nice in cockpit view even without VR.
https://youtu.be/hoQLds9gOsM?t=54

I highly recommend pulling FOV out a bit further. Get the bottom of the indash radar to the bottom of the screen. High FOV reduces the zoom in effect that happens with quick movements, and you have a really high FPS rig, so it looks almost too smooth haha. Also, in steam controller settings, or some other means, modify the right stick to have a circular deadzone (it defaults to Cross) and increase the anti-deadzone on the right stick by a notch or two. Should get rid of the stickiness from neutral. :) Nice video. Great control.

Originally posted by Det.Bullock:

Ah, joke's on you I never played any Ace Combat in third person.

PS: AC7 cockpits often have fully functional altimeters and artificial horizons too, I played F-22 a lot in large parts because said instruments were visible even at the default cockpit view and they were a lot of help when flying inside clouds of fog when the HUD was less readable or busted by lightning.

Yeah I was actually surprised to notice that in my research. It's a shame they didn't go with radar too considering their mechanical altimeters and attitude indicators are usually pretty functional. Ironically their in-dash HUD aren't always accurate but they tend to still move, just lag behind the forward facing hud.

I made this post because 90% of all screenshots, and almost 95% of all videos of this game are in third person and I was like maybe they're just doing this for Youtube and the horrific thought of 'wait, maybe this is actually how they play the whole game' after some of the moments I've had in the cockpit made me try to empathize with why they might choose that...

...and the logical result of that was that it's just what many are used to. Researching why, it made sense. So I felt something should be said, especially when I saw that in reality, if given the option most prefer a cockpit view in a game like DCS. Which implied most people, coming from Ace had never experienced it.

Originally posted by JtDarth:

Yes, the camera controls in PW are vastly more smooth than in AC. My first playthrough of PW, with the exception of the final mission (froggy has enough problems on that mission without the situational awareness drop from cockpit view), were done entirely in cockpit.
The camera moves and tracks in a way that feels so natural it's not even funny. I was pivoting the camera onto targets without overshooting with no prior practice.

It's one of those 'little things' that turns out to be a gamechanger.

For me it had nothing to do with the hud and everything to do with the camera feeling.

I agree, I had to go into full first person mode only on Merc mode in the final mission because of the extra drone adds. They were a bit much lmao. But I sat in cockpit view for the first attempts. Agree with all your points on this. It's mostly the camera, and the cockpit sway helps dramatically. I'd probably turn off cockpit sway if I played in VR, but if you're not on VR it does a great job of giving you that head and body motion in the cockpit view.

As an aside, in Kings, don't fire on the boss when they first approach head on (when not in Merc mode) He won't fire, and you blow right past each other, then turns and fights. It's a super cinematic moment. xD

[Vault Traveler]

Originally posted by Rage628:

Yes, PW is better in every single aspect. I hope AC8 will be console exclusive and die out.

A real fan of flight games would never say something like that. I rather have 2 average games and one superior than only one game at all.

[boris.glevrk]

I fly in AC7 with cockpit. The only exception is that night valley flight because HUD glass (as in, the physical HUD device, not the in-game hud) reflecting moonlight is sooooooo annoying.

[JtDarth]

Originally posted by Vault Traveler:

Originally posted by Rage628:

Yes, PW is better in every single aspect. I hope AC8 will be console exclusive and die out.

A real fan of flight games would never say something like that. I rather have 2 average games and one superior than only one game at all.

If he's who I think he is, then he doesn't legitimately believe that. He's just given up on trying to be reasonable after experiencing the absolute ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ that is the AC7 steam forums where 90% of threads consist of the same 'muh ultrawide' or 'muh flightstick' ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ where people claim the game is unplayable or horrible or not enjoyable or whatever based on lack of support in a console port (done by a team new to the engine and pc support in general) for niche (generally) pc exclusive peripherals.

Then you've got the VR crowd who think, and I'm quoting one of them literally:
"Implementing VR is as simple as clicking a checkbox in the engine"
From the same person with regards to UW:
"The engine has native support, all it takes is clicking a single checkbox"

I'm sure anyone who's actually tried to work with either can back me up on things not quite being that simple, especially with regards to VR.


After putting up with twits like that, it doesn't surprise me for people to give up on trying to come across positive and have actual discussion.


By all means, if you don't believe me, go check some of the older threads on the AC7 steam forums.

[628]

Originally posted by JtDarth:

If he's who I think he is, then he doesn't legitimately believe that.

Except I do NOW. PW is better in every single aspect. I hope AC8 will be console exclusive and die out, as that retarded forum wish.

[Willem]

Except for the occasional 3rd person look around at the action or for screenshots, cockpit view always for me.

[Iruru]

Originally posted by Rage628:

Originally posted by JtDarth:

If he's who I think he is, then he doesn't legitimately believe that.

Except I do NOW. PW is better in every single aspect. I hope AC8 will be console exclusive and die out, as that retarded forum wish.

lmao you're a child