Is it just me, or are all endings sad?

[Prismwind]

Major Spoilers ahead, you have been warned.

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So I looked it up, and the game has a total of 5 possible endings. The thing is, all are implied to be sad. Some are "less sad", but all are sad.

One has you killing yourself. Another is you wake the king, and he ends all life to rule the void where there is no longing with you. Another has you being pulled up in a bucket to the surface... only for the child to get scared seeing you and drop you down the well quickly, where you die at the bottom.

The secret ending has you lay down in a glowing white light, and start dreaming you're the king flying on a bird... thing is the game ending and time stopping sort of implies you never wake, living forever in your own dream world. So in a way it's more pleasant than the three I mentioned but... it's still just a dream you can never wake from.

The final ending seems nice actually, if you don't pay attention to one of the books in game closely. In this, someone who doesn't immediately get scared and drop you down the well again pulls you up, and you get out of the bucket. This ending results in you actually being adopted into a family living near the well.

Just one problem... it's in a poetry book, the last poem in the book describes the plot of the game. It both foreshadows what the king does when he wakes up, and warns that "no soul can leave the underground, but a mere body might!"... consider that implication, and realize your character just stares straight ahead and barely reacts other than looking at others around him when they do things or make noise, mechanically sipping a drink.

So yeah, the happiest endings either have you trapped in a dream world forever, or losing your soul. This game has no ending that isn't sad in some way.

[Laika]

Can't argue with that.

[The Thuban]

Not so sure if they lost their soul, figured it was just awkward joining this new family that they don't know at the breakfast table XD. But it did bother me that they magically turn white after a bath, thought a shade was a black coal creature? That kind of feels like they lost a part of themselves to fit in on the surface... I assume it's meant to be symbolic of starting a new life/getting over depression or something but that makes it the BLACK/DARK: BAD, WHITE/LIGHT: GOOD trope which is kind of messed up. And also contradicts some of the theme subversions in the game, like the shade being dark/creepy doesn't mean they're bad :/

[Prismwind]

Originally posted by The Thuban:

Not so sure if they lost their soul, figured it was just awkward joining this new family that they don't know at the breakfast table XD. But it did bother me that they magically turn white after a bath, thought a shade was a black coal creature? That kind of feels like they lost a part of themselves to fit in on the surface... I assume it's meant to be symbolic of starting a new life/getting over depression or something but that makes it the BLACK/DARK: BAD, WHITE/LIGHT: GOOD trope which is kind of messed up. And also contradicts some of the theme subversions in the game, like the shade being dark/creepy doesn't mean they're bad :/

To be fair... to the left of the house is a tombstone talking about a child that died in the mines. This both explains the boulders blocking the entrance, and why you look a lot like them. I suspect the shade may have once been that child, and the King took their soul to make them into the shade.

So you may just be looking like you did when you were alive.

[The Thuban]

Originally posted by Prismwind:

Originally posted by The Thuban:

Not so sure if they lost their soul, figured it was just awkward joining this new family that they don't know at the breakfast table XD. But it did bother me that they magically turn white after a bath, thought a shade was a black coal creature? That kind of feels like they lost a part of themselves to fit in on the surface... I assume it's meant to be symbolic of starting a new life/getting over depression or something but that makes it the BLACK/DARK: BAD, WHITE/LIGHT: GOOD trope which is kind of messed up. And also contradicts some of the theme subversions in the game, like the shade being dark/creepy doesn't mean they're bad :/

To be fair... to the left of the house is a tombstone talking about a child that died in the mines. This both explains the boulders blocking the entrance, and why you look a lot like them. I suspect the shade may have once been that child, and the King took their soul to make them into the shade.

So you may just be looking like you did when you were alive.

Huh that's a good theory for the boulders actually, although the grave is a bit vague, and if the shade is meant to be the person buried that leaves a lot of questions about how their soul works and how it's tied to the king. But that's mostly me over thinking it XD

[Prismwind]

yeah, the lore is... vague in spots, I think on purpose so people can speculate and fill in gaps. The game is aptly named, everything is about longing... including the longing to understand. Lots of hints, not too many directly stated things.

[youmert]

A thoughtful conversation. Fun to read. Thanks.

[oldladygreybun]

But perhaps not so very sad after all??

I thought about if he would lose his soul in the "good" well ending also - because of the poem.
But I still chose that one as the best of the possibles.
(Even after considering the "secret" prism one, which I found rather sad - he's still all alone, flying around - in a dream? - on a stork he doesn't like and which doesn't like him.)

Anyway, now I've chosen it (the well and bucket and into the living world) and reached the end. After some looong and patient waiting at the top near the well. And have taken a thorough look at the cutscenes.
And now I'm not so sure any more that the Shade lost his soul on exit from the caves.

(BTW : The poem is an adaptation (dev's, I guess) from German 19th century Friedrich Rückerts poem "Barbarossa" , where the servant/page/dwarf has the role as lookout and messenger,. And where the King crucially is alive, though asleep, and has an Arthuresque purpose of restoring the lands and people to greatness "when the time has come").

I'm thinking that perhaps the in-game poem, where the King is NOT alive, but instead a King of Souls - means the King is a Soul himself. And also has quite a different end purpose than in the original poem (Armageddon). .And that perhaps the final in-game poem lines "He bids his Shade, in slumber / O dwarf, stay at my side / for a soul can't leave this cavern / but a mere body might" - perhaps only means that the KING can't leave the caves. Because he is only Soul and not alive. Whereas the Shade CAN leave the cave - because he is a living creature. And without leaving his soul behind. I.e. that "a mere body" doesn't mean a body without a soul. But means "merely a living thing" (body and soul). Like the contrast many religions have between a "pure soul", perceived as being on a higher level than a "mere human". Doesn't mean human beings don't have souls - but still perceived as a "mere person" compared to a pure Soul.

How does that strike you?

In that case, the sadness of this ending is in that the beauty of the caves ends (I guess?) and the King ending in some way. He's not alive, so can't exactly die - but cease to be, somehow...

I think the Shade IS alive - since he can die by falling from heights. Even if he doesn't need to eat (?). And since he has emotions and aspirations as a living creature. He feels loneliness, and boredom, longs for company, gets pleasure from books, warmth, exploration, softness, beauty, music, colours, light, art. And he had memories from the living world (the dreams).

But biggest reason I chose this ending and am quite happy with it now - is that the Shade's biggest longing in the caves was for companionship and friendship.
And all the other endings meant loneliness or nothingness.
Here in this ending he is together with people who seem to accept him as he is, who even look a bit like him so maybe relationship of some kind. And I think looking at the cutscenes that he ISN'T lost and soulless. Just a little overwhelmed but figuring it out. And come morning and the dawn of a new day, I think he's going to be really happy. Grass underfoot, and trees, and birds, and stuff. And lovely views, and a garden to work in watching food grow, and a swing, and a child perhaps around his own age-ish to beome friends with, in time...

A new chapter beginning, and those earlier months in the caves' darkness something he has put behind him. Even his "creator" (if that's what the King was -??). Sad to put it behind him, yes, and always some feelings of loss. But time to move on and grow.

The way to "end longing" is to enter into the world and connect. Even if the price to pay for a life in the real world is the potential for sorrow and longing also, as well as hapiness.

OK - this ended up being a bit existensialist *crooked smile*
Any thoughts?

[Nirodha]

For me, it's a very Eastern philosophical meditation. Longing (desire) is suffering and when it ends, suffering ends. The deaths are deaths of desire and with that comes peace. The world (and time) arises (within you) because of (unfulfilled) desire/longing. When desire is no more, the world - as previously perceived (and the sense of time which brings about the changing expressions allowing for the possibility of desire's fulfillment) is no more. All becomes stillness and any change that occurs is external and does not disturb what you have become - that immovable essence which is peace at its core.

[Prismwind]

Originally posted by Nirodha:

For me, it's a very Eastern philosophical meditation. Longing (desire) is suffering and when it ends, suffering ends. The deaths are deaths of desire and with that comes peace. The world (and time) arises (within you) because of (unfulfilled) desire/longing. When desire is no more, the world - as previously perceived (and the sense of time which brings about the changing expressions allowing for the possibility of desire's fulfillment) is no more. All becomes stillness and any change that occurs is external and does not disturb what you have become - that immovable essence which is peace at its core.

That sounds just so sad to me. So wanting happiness, and even to live, leads to suffering. So just die, it's more peaceful and ends suffering. It's basically a philosophy that death is the only escape from suffering... taken to its logical conclusion, at best you'd stop caring about living, and at worst you'd kill yourself to end the suffering because death is the only way.

[Aryore]

Souls are overrated, honestly.

[Awakened Gamer]

Originally posted by Prismwind:

Major Spoilers ahead, you have been warned.

.

.

.

So I looked it up, and the game has a total of 5 possible endings. The thing is, all are implied to be sad. Some are "less sad", but all are sad.

One has you killing yourself. Another is you wake the king, and he ends all life to rule the void where there is no longing with you. Another has you being pulled up in a bucket to the surface... only for the child to get scared seeing you and drop you down the well quickly, where you die at the bottom.

The secret ending has you lay down in a glowing white light, and start dreaming you're the king flying on a bird... thing is the game ending and time stopping sort of implies you never wake, living forever in your own dream world. So in a way it's more pleasant than the three I mentioned but... it's still just a dream you can never wake from.

The final ending seems nice actually, if you don't pay attention to one of the books in game closely. In this, someone who doesn't immediately get scared and drop you down the well again pulls you up, and you get out of the bucket. This ending results in you actually being adopted into a family living near the well.

Just one problem... it's in a poetry book, the last poem in the book describes the plot of the game. It both foreshadows what the king does when he wakes up, and warns that "no soul can leave the underground, but a mere body might!"... consider that implication, and realize your character just stares straight ahead and barely reacts other than looking at others around him when they do things or make noise, mechanically sipping a drink.

So yeah, the happiest endings either have you trapped in a dream world forever, or losing your soul. This game has no ending that isn't sad in some way.

Yea this game is just full of bad subconscious programming.

[Awakened Gamer]

Originally posted by Aryore:

Souls are overrated, honestly.

That made no sense, souls are powerful especially collectively.

[Creativian]

Originally posted by Prismwind:

Just one problem... it's in a poetry book, the last poem in the book describes the plot of the game. It both foreshadows what the king does when he wakes up, and warns that "no soul can leave the underground, but a mere body might!"... consider that implication, and realize your character just stares straight ahead and barely reacts other than looking at others around him when they do things or make noise, mechanically sipping a drink.

You make a good point about the poem. But as for how the character reacts above-ground... it's exactly the same as how he reacted underground, with the only exception being when his spider friend is killed. So he's no worse off, is he? Where's the evidence that he's left his soul behind in the underground?

The dude just doesn't have facial expressions.

[Creativian]

Originally posted by The Thuban:

Not so sure if they lost their soul, figured it was just awkward joining this new family that they don't know at the breakfast table XD. But it did bother me that they magically turn white after a bath, thought a shade was a black coal creature? That kind of feels like they lost a part of themselves to fit in on the surface... I assume it's meant to be symbolic of starting a new life/getting over depression or something but that makes it the BLACK/DARK: BAD, WHITE/LIGHT: GOOD trope which is kind of messed up. And also contradicts some of the theme subversions in the game, like the shade being dark/creepy doesn't mean they're bad :/

I was surprised myself when he turned out to be light-skinned. I thought he was naturally dark, but there was a lot of coal down there, so maybe he was just covered in coal dust?

[Creativian]

Originally posted by Prismwind:

Originally posted by The Thuban:

Not so sure if they lost their soul, figured it was just awkward joining this new family that they don't know at the breakfast table XD. But it did bother me that they magically turn white after a bath, thought a shade was a black coal creature? That kind of feels like they lost a part of themselves to fit in on the surface... I assume it's meant to be symbolic of starting a new life/getting over depression or something but that makes it the BLACK/DARK: BAD, WHITE/LIGHT: GOOD trope which is kind of messed up. And also contradicts some of the theme subversions in the game, like the shade being dark/creepy doesn't mean they're bad :/

To be fair... to the left of the house is a tombstone talking about a child that died in the mines. This both explains the boulders blocking the entrance, and why you look a lot like them. I suspect the shade may have once been that child, and the King took their soul to make them into the shade.

So you may just be looking like you did when you were alive.

I hadn't thought of that, great analysis. I thought the boulders were there because the people were afraid of the king. Maybe someone had had a premonition about how dangerous he would be if he ever woke up. But there's more evidence for your interpretation.