Multiplayer cheating

[Sophos]

I was thoroughly enjoying this game until people I was playing with discovered you can just log into another server with your entire inventory in tact. This is really stupid. This allows you to carry console-generated items from single player into multiplayer, including the cheat sword, and completely circumvent the ore restriction on portals. This is completely game breaking and killed all drive to play this game anymore.

[electricdawn]

Client side is bad for MMOs. This is not an MMO, it‘s a co-op game that allows you to do things that would not be acceptable in a MMO.

[Sophos]

Nascarman původně napsal:

How?

World hopping is exactly the problem. It allows you to skip the entire game and bring creative mode into multiplayer, and there is currently no way whatsoever to prevent it from happening, in fact everybody here can agree that it's intended. And that's the problem. It should not be intended gameplay to break the game. That is bad game design.

[Sentient Entropy]

Sophos původně napsal:

Nascarman původně napsal:

How?

World hopping is exactly the problem.

The developers, sole arbiters of what goes into this game, obviously disagree with your opinion. Perhaps Valheim isn't for you.

P.S. - There is no creative mode. There are dev commands to compensate for glaring bugs but I expect those to be removed when the game is near release.

[Aesthier]

OP:

I checked to see what mods I could find that would do what you are asking and found the following the most likely fit:

Valheim MP (VMP)
https://www.nexusmods.com/valheim/mods/1071

This mod is:

"Server and Client modification for Valheim that makes the server completely authoritative. Adds several multiplayer related features as well. "

And most importantly for you it allows for:
"- Server based characters (the client will *never* send their character to the server.)"

Please understand that this is not the only mod that enforces the use of server side characters, however it appears at "first glance" to do it with as little fluff as possible, which is something I am guessing you desire.

There are more than a few mods out there addressing the very issue you are concerned about so you might want to shop around a bit and find what works for you.


Feel free to go enforce your own play-style upon your:

Sophos původně napsal:

people. Scumbags as they may be.

I hope that helps you and relieves some of your angst.

[Nascarman]

Sophos původně napsal:

Nascarman původně napsal:

How?

World hopping is exactly the problem. It allows you to skip the entire game and bring creative mode into multiplayer, and there is currently no way whatsoever to prevent it from happening, in fact everybody here can agree that it's intended. And that's the problem. It should not be intended gameplay to break the game. That is bad game design.

It’s not intended gameplay. Console commands are considered cheating, thus using them to spawn items for singleplayer is considered cheating by the devs (the toggle used to be “imacheater” before some kids whined that they didn’t wanna feel like a cheater for spawning in items using the console commands, and it’s completely ridiculous that the devs listened).

Like I said before though, it’s not the game’s job to police how you play it, the game provides the tools and the player chooses how they want to play. The game has already provided enough tools to properly dictate how you want your friends to play, and if you don’t like how your friends are playing on your server don’t whine to the devs and instead use the tools the game provided and ban them.

[Bjørn Thorsson]

Nascarman původně napsal:

Sophos původně napsal:

World hopping is exactly the problem. It allows you to skip the entire game and bring creative mode into multiplayer, and there is currently no way whatsoever to prevent it from happening, in fact everybody here can agree that it's intended. And that's the problem. It should not be intended gameplay to break the game. That is bad game design.

It’s not intended gameplay. Console commands are considered cheating, thus using them to spawn items for singleplayer is considered cheating by the devs (the toggle used to be “imacheater” before some kids whined that they didn’t wanna feel like a cheater for spawning in items using the console commands, and it’s completely ridiculous that the devs listened).

It's correct, nowadays (especially in Early Access stage) console commands have not to be seen as "cheating": they're "tools" in fact, and we're totally not arguing (or be against) to them, not at all.
IMHO "cheating" is to "bring into other's servers the items you spawned in your local one" or even to "use your local server to cope with online servers' limits" (I'm referring to being able to "TP metals").
If you own the online server, that's (definitely) not my problem: you can "cheat" it up the way you want.
If you take profit of my trust, and cheat in my server (supposing I rented one, which is not going to happen, on such bases), that's (definitely) my problem... and I'm expecting devs helps me to cope with it, possibly without the need to "ban you" from my server...

Like I said before though, it’s not the game’s job to police how you play it, the game provides the tools and the player chooses how they want to play. The game has already provided enough tools to properly dictate how you want your friends to play, and if you don’t like how your friends are playing on your server don’t whine to the devs and instead use the tools the game provided and ban them.

...'cause, if you like to have some friends, sometimes it's really harsh decision, to ban them: not all want to do that.

[Nascarman]

Bjørn Thorsson původně napsal:

Nascarman původně napsal:

It’s not intended gameplay. Console commands are considered cheating, thus using them to spawn items for singleplayer is considered cheating by the devs (the toggle used to be “imacheater” before some kids whined that they didn’t wanna feel like a cheater for spawning in items using the console commands, and it’s completely ridiculous that the devs listened).

It's correct, nowadays (especially in Early Access stage) console commands have not to be seen as "cheating": they're "tools" in fact, and we're totally not arguing (or be against) to them, not at all.
IMHO "cheating" is to "bring into other's servers the items you spawned in your local one" or even to "use your local server to cope with online servers' limits" (I'm referring to being able to "TP metals").
If you own the online server, that's (definitely) not my problem: you can "cheat" it up the way you want.
If you take profit of my trust, and cheat in my server (supposing I rented one, which is not going to happen, on such bases), that's (definitely) my problem... and I'm expecting devs helps me to cope with it, possibly without the need to "ban you" from my server...

Like I said before though, it’s not the game’s job to police how you play it, the game provides the tools and the player chooses how they want to play. The game has already provided enough tools to properly dictate how you want your friends to play, and if you don’t like how your friends are playing on your server don’t whine to the devs and instead use the tools the game provided and ban them.

...'cause, if you like to have some friends, sometimes it's really harsh decision, to ban them: not all want to do that.

Using console commands is definitely cheating, I really don’t understand how it isn’t. The devs didn’t intend for them to be a part of a normal playthrough and they allow you to do things you can’t normally do in normal gameplay. I’d like to see a game in which spawning items and flying using the console isn’t considered cheating. For some reason you seem to think tping metal is more of a cheat than spawning it out of thin air. As I said before, the game is not out to police how you play it, which is why you can freely cheat with 0 consequence, which is ok if you want to play that way.

Also, there’s 0 reason to expect the devs to help you cope with your friends cheating in your private multiplayer server. The devs aren’t gonna implement EAC because Timmy started hacking on your private lobby, they’re not gonna waste dev time on server sided characters because Jimmy brought a cheat sword from his singleplayer game, and they’re not gonna act like your dad that works at bungie and ban their Xbox accounts if they don’t listen. Sometimes you gotta put the foot down and tell them to play by the rules or just don’t play at all.

[Mr B.]

Bjørn Thorsson původně napsal:

So I'm "making many assumptions"... while you're not, right?
You assume I've no experience into client/server matter.
You assume I never saw multi-user systems.
You assume "I've just bought the game".
But ok, I'm sure it's me the one who is assuming.
(to be clear: I'm not taking it personally, just smiling watching you assuming things while telling I'm doing)

Let me put it in another way: there are litterally a ton of farms, renting Valheim servers, this have one meaning only: if I rent a server, many players will play (where "me" = all the server owners, not "just me") -> some of them (50%?) could have bought the game already, but there is the "avalanche effect": they speak with friends, "the more, the merrier" and some (50%? less? still they give $money$) will have to buy the game.
"Putting large resources into catering for an unknown number of players" is exactly what they did already, when thought to create the game itself: was they wrong? I don't think so.

Last but not least, you seem a very knowledgeable and skilled one, so why not helping them directly, to make Valheim better to all us (and earn money) instead of coming to here to say "no no no, it can't be done"? History demonstrated already that many of those "no no no" became "yes yes yes" later, as soon as devs thought about it.

Yes, I'm not making assumptions. I've not made *any* of the ones you claim above (that said, you don't have any proper development experience if you cannot grasp how much resource anti cheats etc takes). And you have bought the game - that's a fact, and as things go, that's the most important statistic they have. How much money it brings in.

But you prove my points constantly, and frankly your wrong in what you keep suggesting.

Because you keep referencing some demographic to which you have literally no way of getting numbers. 'Literally a ton of farms, renting valheim servers'.

The question which you cannot answer, or even give any meaningful info to:

How many people will be put off buying valheim due to lack of control you are on about?

When you have 'literally' no info to back it, it's a rather non existent argument. Oh I understand the *theory*, but that's often not reality.

And please don't do my pet hate - 'Why don't you help them?'

Why should I help? They are rolling in cash now, I don't work for free! Though I have given feedback on the public test, have you done this?

And where did I say it can't be done? Again, I'm not the one making assumptions! I've said, time and again, it's resource intensive and (imo) not worth it. The devs seem to think so too, though of course things can change, especially as the game has done so well.

Basically, I assumed nothing, and put a counter point in about resource. If you want any validation on which of them is more accurate, ask the dev. I know they are keeping track of the most requested features.

[Not Known]

This happened to me, too. A Steam friend logged into my server to help me mine copper. I was too afraid to go into the Black Forest. He ended up giving me things that broke the game experience for me. It took me backing away from the game for months, and starting a totally new game. That friend has still helped me progress, but he kindly recognized that I just wanted him there as a spot. He disappeared from the server after helping me with something. Wasn't his fault the first time around that I saw and possessed things I shouldn't at that stage in the game, but this is something to be aware of.

[Siegfried67]

If OP plays on a server that allows his friends to cheat, or he himself allows them on a game he hosts, it seems to me that he is the problem, not bad game design.
Your so called friends can't refrain from cheating but you wanna keep playing with them? That a personnal choice.
But given how game developement has slowed down, i'd rather like the devs to focus on game content than to fix OPs life choices.

[Sophos]

Siegfried67 původně napsal:

If OP plays on a server that allows his friends to cheat, or he himself allows them on a game he hosts, it seems to me that he is the problem, not bad game design.
Your so called friends can't refrain from cheating but you wanna keep playing with them? That a personnal choice.
But given how game developement has slowed down, i'd rather like the devs to focus on game content than to fix OPs life choices.

Again, if my ONLY OPTION WHATSOEVER to deter players not to use world hopping is to tell them to leave, that is bad game design. Again, if world hopping is intended gameplay and by doing so it breaks the game that is bad game design. It is absolutely on the devs to make their game a game. Right now it is an alpha test sandbox. It should definitely be a higher priority because a) i can buy and play the game right now, b) it kills the experience, and c) its an easy fix: server side saves.

[Wizard of Woz]

Sophos původně napsal:

Siegfried67 původně napsal:

If OP plays on a server that allows his friends to cheat, or he himself allows them on a game he hosts, it seems to me that he is the problem, not bad game design.
Your so called friends can't refrain from cheating but you wanna keep playing with them? That a personnal choice.
But given how game developement has slowed down, i'd rather like the devs to focus on game content than to fix OPs life choices.

Again, if my ONLY OPTION WHATSOEVER to deter players not to use world hopping is to tell them to leave, that is bad game design. Again, if world hopping is intended gameplay and by doing so it breaks the game that is bad game design. It is absolutely on the devs to make their game a game. Right now it is an alpha test sandbox. It should definitely be a higher priority because a) i can buy and play the game right now, b) it kills the experience, and c) its an easy fix: server side saves.

Actually it is not on the devs to stop cheaters, especially since this is a co-op game not a multiplayer game.

[Mr B.]

Sophos původně napsal:

Again, if my ONLY OPTION WHATSOEVER to deter players not to use world hopping is to tell them to leave, that is bad game design.

You have other options.

Password the server, or change it to one they don't know.

Tell them it's a rule on YOUR server to help you enjoy the game.

Both of those are valid options.

If your friends need actual things other than your request not to ruin your game, then enough said.

It's not bad game design, it's bad friends.

[Sophos]

Mr B. původně napsal:

Sophos původně napsal:

Again, if my ONLY OPTION WHATSOEVER to deter players not to use world hopping is to tell them to leave, that is bad game design.

It's not bad game design, it's bad friends.

As I said 3 other times in this thread, client-side character saves are bad game design because it makes people think it is intended gameplay to log out of one server and into another server with a full inventory of items, and that single design decision breaks the game because it goes against the entire idea of having portal restrictions and using longships. People will do this as if its a convenience they discovered, unknowingly that they are now breaking the game. This has nothing to do with "bad friends". It is entirely the game's fault for not guiding players away from this clearly unintended mechanic. Hence, bad game design.

[Wizard of Woz]

Sophos původně napsal:

Mr B. původně napsal:

It's not bad game design, it's bad friends.

As I said 3 other times in this thread, client-side character saves are bad game design because it makes people think it is intended gameplay to log out of one server and into another server with a full inventory of items, and that single design decision breaks the game because it goes against the entire idea of having portal restrictions and using longships. People will do this as if its a convenience they discovered, unknowingly that they are now breaking the game. This has nothing to do with "bad friends". It is entirely the game's fault for not guiding players away from this clearly unintended mechanic. Hence, bad game design.

Well whether you like it or not that is how the devs wanted to design the game. And yes it totally has to do with bad friends. If they didn't bother to cheat you would never have brought this topic up.