Some thoughts / questions with regard to no-map / no-portal

[Tomiro]

So I recently started my first playthrough with said restrictions (otherwise default settings). No major issues so far, although the pace is quite a bit slower than normally. Only death happened early game in a burial chamber due to poison, and now ready for the mistlands after killing Yag.

I wonder how easy is it to accidentally sail off the edge of the world? Especially in bad weather, that is 90% of the time. From what I understand there is a current that pulls you over once you get close? I figure that I'm quite far east on the map at the moment, and there is mistland nearby.

What is the point of the fishing rod in the ice caverns? You still need to find the trader in order to buy baits, and I've somewhat given up on him. Although I accidentally stumbled upon Hildur. Anyone knows what location she points to? Is it the nearest, random, or some other order? And do the directions update if you deliver said chest? If she at some point would point to a tower, I guess this could be way to find the eggs.

I’ve seen some people putting carts on the boat, for things like moving bases, but I’m not entirely convinced, as the weather seems to change into a storm within 10 seconds after settings off half the time, and I imagine that there is a real chance of them falling off.

I guess that mistlands will be doable, although probably would be pretty hard not to get lost. But I'm definitely not looking forwards to the Ashlands. Anyone tried it, and how doable is it? Should I just call it, after defeating the queen? Also I have some aversion against magic in this game, so playing mostly melee / ranged builds.

Also I realized that I could probably use signs with oversized fonts for easy navigational aids, but I haven’t use them yet, as they feel like cheating. Normal rendering distance also feels quite low, even when I have it on max.

[Despiser]

Not using map or portals just adds tedium. Tbh, it's still tedious enough even with those, but I have no desire to run around than is absolutely necessary. But I still will not enable metals to be transportable as that would almost make sailing an unnecessary activity.

[Faceplant]

You're not going to sail off the edge of the world. You'll know way before you get there, if you even get there, that's your near it.

Mistlands is definitely a challenge without maps. The first time I walked into Mistlands I got totally turned around and spent the rest of the game day trying to find my way out. The only advice I can really give is to use the high rocks to get a look around, and even place lights up there to look for when you're lost. Also the shoreline can be very useful for getting around.

Wood is scarce in Mistlands, and you're going to get stuck there overnight often, so make sure you take wood in and use existing structures for cover. Pounding a hole in the side of a rock works well, but so do helmets and ribcages.

I haven't found a way to play Ashlands without using portals, which is very disappointing, but I'm working on making it at least close to no-portal.

I also turned on maps in Ashlands, but that's not as necessary, and I don't have too much of an issue with using a map, but getting lost without a map in Ashlands is tough.

[Remiel]

Devs warned that playing without maps is not the way the game was meant to be played.
You totally can play without maps. Main problem is finding your friends in multiplayer. In the mistlands just place some wisp torches around and use signs and big fires.
As for the edge of the world, it might be difficult to know for sure because usually the waves don't let you see the edge until you cross the event horizon. Can't remember for sure because I only tried it once, but I think the music stops when you get to the edge. Or maybe it was my heart.

[Long Dead Fingers]

Someday I'd like to try without a map.

I've only just begun my first ever no portals run and am amazed how ditching this one cheeseable convenience has made the game feel fresh again. Even venturing too far into the black forest looking for tin and copper while daylight is failing is a thrill, without an insta-portal I can plop down anywhere to get back (at least without the ore).

Now I carefully plan most of my trips, taking into account how long it might take to get somewhere, collect what's needed, and get back. So much more planning has to go into everything. It's slow, yes, but very satisfying.

[Tomiro]

Originally posted by Faceplant8:

You're not going to sail off the edge of the world. You'll know way before you get there, if you even get there, that's your near it.

Mistlands is definitely a challenge without maps. The first time I walked into Mistlands I got totally turned around and spent the rest of the game day trying to find my way out. The only advice I can really give is to use the high rocks to get a look around, and even place lights up there to look for when you're lost. Also the shoreline can be very useful for getting around.

Wood is scarce in Mistlands, and you're going to get stuck there overnight often, so make sure you take wood in and use existing structures for cover. Pounding a hole in the side of a rock works well, but so do helmets and ribcages.

I haven't found a way to play Ashlands without using portals, which is very disappointing, but I'm working on making it at least close to no-portal.

I also turned on maps in Ashlands, but that's not as necessary, and I don't have too much of an issue with using a map, but getting lost without a map in Ashlands is tough.

Good to know. I took over a dwarven tower in an area without mist, so I might make that my temporary base, and make paths of mistlights from there in various directions. I don't think that I've ever used them before apart from decorations.

With regard to Hildur. I logged in and checked on her the next day, and now she points to a different direction. So it seems to be random. Also after that, I found one of her special burial chambers with a chest quite nearby, and it was not any of the directions she was pointingt at. So for all I know the location she points at might be at the other end of the map.

[Tomiro]

Originally posted by Long Dead Fingers:

Someday I'd like to try without a map.

I've only just begun my first ever no portals run and am amazed how ditching this one cheeseable convenience has made the game feel fresh again. Even venturing too far into the black forest looking for tin and copper while daylight is failing is a thrill, without an insta-portal I can plop down anywhere to get back (at least without the ore).

Now I carefully plan most of my trips, taking into account how long it might take to get somewhere, collect what's needed, and get back. So much more planning has to go into everything. It's slow, yes, but very satisfying.

Having done a number of runs previously, I couldn't decide between no-map or no-portal, so I decided to do them both. It's definitely a fresh experience, and the dread when you realize that you are lost in a hostile biome, and night is coming, and you are running low on food is something that I can't remember experiencing in a game.

[UnluckyNoob]

Originally posted by Tomiro:

I wonder how easy is it to accidentally sail off the edge of the world? Especially in bad weather, that is 90% of the time. From what I understand there is a current that pulls you over once you get close? I figure that I'm quite far east on the map at the moment, and there is mistland nearby.

Sail from land to land and you'll be fine. What's the point of sailing into nowhere, especially without map?

[bacon]

to answer your first question, you shouldnt be at the edge of the world. you should be in the interior of the map, or at the south, which is clearly marked by the cones. you dont have a business reason to be far north, east, or west.

i am at the end of ashlands in a no map no portal world (basically need to make additional copies of weapons for the boss fight, due to durability).

once you beat moder, plan to sail all the way south to ashlands, then settle across the water in the plains as a permanent base, as close to ashlands as possible, preferrable also next to mistlands. this base will grow barley and all other renewables, like wood, fine wood, etc. do all your smelting here as well.

sail east/west along the ashlands corridor and trace the opposite shore, which will be mostly mistlands. you can find crypts, skulls, roots, dwarf buildings, etc. since you are sailing the shore in a corridor, you wont get lost. anytime you see ashlands cones, you know where you are. my queen spawn was pretty close to mid south, so i got lucky there. took me much more time to find yagluth. i was in full carapace by the time i found yagluth.

for ashlands, the big boat storage helps a lot, 32 slots. first, bring mats for setting up a beach shelter. black marble, or stone for raise ground. bring enough workbench mats to repair your mistlands gear, and prepare ahead of time to be able to repair ashlands gear, which needs level 4 for repairs. remember that you need to repair your blackmetal pickaxe on a forge as well. dont bother bringing galdr table mats to repair feather cape, you will return home often enough to repair it there.

bring some finewood for furniture, but dont try to bring all your comfort items in one trip. make a bed and set spawn to ashlands once you feel you have enough equipment there. otherwise, keep your spawn at home. eventually, you should plan for a max comfort base, 18 with maypole and the new ashlands comfort item. yes, i have a hot tub in my ashlands beach shelter.

as you sail past the ashlands cones, you may be able to see raised ground behind. this is a good place to try to land, as it means it is a well-developed continent. as you enter the cones, get a sense of the best sailing paths. jump out with feather cape and slap down workbench on cone edges to repair the boat, fight birds and serpent. with workbench up, you can power through the serpent with demolisher easily.

use pickaxe and *take the tops off the cones* to mark a path. this is important, as your ashlands base wont be self sufficient and will need regular supply runs, kind of like the actual antarctic. namely, 2 of the best ashlands foods need barley, and it is easier to take ashlands mats home and cook with barley at home than to ship barley in, because it is bulky.

one thing i highly recommend is bringing black metal and tar for the big chest. this will make life easier in your make-shift ashlands base. land on the shore like normal, set up a basic shelter, set up your comfort items to refresh rest, then dump all your mats in chests. follow your topless cone path back across the water to your home base, and repeat supply runs until you have what you want. you can use this path for bringing flametal and gems home for crafting, and for bringing in big shipments of potions and food. every time you return to ashlands from home, bring some regular wood with you, so you dont run out. it is hard to come by.

ive had no issues so far in ashlands with no map no portal, but i play on 3x drops to reduce the grind. the benefit of ashlands is the uniform nature of the biome. you know exactly where it is, and where your base is in relation, just across the water to the north. like mistlands, you can see a lot of the interior of ashlands just by tracing the shore. dont just run straight inland, as you will get lost. though, at least in my world, during daytime in "clear" weather, you can see the branch in the sky. the branch is always north, since you are in the south pole. and since you landed (hopefully) on the north shore, this is the way back to your beach shelter.

one difficult aspect of ashlands is sieging the fortresses without a trader belt, because of the weight of the siege equipment. you need to scout for fortresses, determine a best path, then come back with a cart full of mats. you will use the same cart to bring the fortress loot home after the fight. you will use the cart a lot in ashlands, even for picking up mob drops like food and leathers.

but the real difficulty is weapon durability. the gemmed weapons require a level 4 blackforge to repair. just a level 4 workbench is almost 400 lbs of mats. that is not including your weapons, armor, food, another 10 wood for a workbench, etc. and ashlands tech progression isnt finished, which means your gemmed weapons are only level 2, low durability. it is very difficult to sustain combat out in the wild unless you make duplicate copies of weapons. you can wear out level 2 shock axes in like 5-10 minutes of skeleton combat. you need to define a goal, and go straight to it. wandering around knocking off skeletons will wear out your weapons super fast. i have "starved" out of durability while exploring and basically had to run past mobs for like 10-15 minutes to get home.

[Mineralwasser]

Playing that kind of mode and coming to an end soon. For me it was immersiv + with 0,5 resource rate, very hard and so on with no map and no portal. So every slider to the extreme if you want to call it that. Using bows for the obvious reasons.

Some things like the trader come to you if you know a little about the game. But it can be a long search if you get unlucky. It was good to get to know the area around the spawn. The first base was established near spawn. So for Eikthyr, Elder, Bonemass and Moder that was the place for gear and farming. From that place i explored the near islands to have a chance to find haldor. First i sailed around the coast and after that explored the islands if he was not near the shore. After Moder i went for plains. I used the island with the Moderbossspawn as a starting point. Sailed around the island and got lucky with Yagluth´s Fingers and a sealed Tower with sailing around that island even when it was a long trip. A new base was established near Yagluth near black forest and meadows where hildir was camping. That was the new base for plains/mistlands. After gearing up i went for mistlands. Went around the first island with mistlands and got everything needed to get to the queen at a good pace. I had a little sleeping chamber under a rock but no real base for mistlands. Finding the queen was a long adventure for itself. 3 vegvisirs point in the direction of a belt of small islands that expanded in this direction further. After following the belt it got me to two bigger islands with mistlands. Found the queen on the second island and the first island helped with the direction to ashlands. Ashlands ocean is like a half-circle and i found the outer part of that and could follow the edge of this ocean to go south. It was another journey for itself. Time to pack all the stuff for a last trip. There is a mistlands/black forest island near ashlands where i shiped my base to. Found a good area in ashlands to establish the base. So now i am on the road to find fader. That will be ok. Found a vegvisir in the first fortress.

Some points for ashlands with no map/no portal.

it is annoying to go through the spiked area again and again. I advice to occaisonally break the upper parts to have an established route through that area. You can get lost in the labyrinth of spikes. Depends on the density of the spikes and distance to the shore.

Some part of the food in ashlands requires barley. So there is a need to get a new farm going which needs plains/blackforest again. I thought at first about the following solution for the food. But that is just not practical. Eating only stuff you find in ashlands. Bonemawmeat, spicy marmelade, fiery svinstew and mashed meat. Bonemawmeat is to heavy in practice. Bees dont like ashlands. So you cant produce honey for spicy marmelade. That leaves you with mashed meat and svinstew. That is ok if you get a farm for vineberries going and have a good income of asksvintails. So one problem is staminafood at this tier which requires resources from outside the biome. In the end you have to sail back and forth to get the required ingredients for food.

If you use bows you have a need for feathers. The 0,5x resource multiplier cant sustain my arrowconsumption. It is better with the normal rate. So i need chickens as a solution for that problem. A chickenfarm in hell seems silly. So i would advice to build that at the entrypoint for ashlands where other stuff is produced. (honey or barley)

Sailingtrips from the old base to ashlands. These trips are long. It was already 20-30 min from mainbase 1 to mainbase 2. But from base 2 to base 3 is just an insane amount of sailing if you want to establish a new base. Prepare yourself mentaly or work your way south while doing the other biomes so you have a shorter way from plains/mistlands base to ashlands.

[Tomiro]

Thank you. Quite helpful. I'll consider the Ashlands tips more once I get further. So far I'm struggling to find mines in the mistlands. Only one so far, but not enough cores. I've got more than enough extractors and sap though.

I was actually trying to follow one of Hildur's directions in the hope of finding a tower. But my karve got tossed around in a storm and I ended up in a different direction, but by coincidence managed to find the special ice cavern. Not very useful, but at least now she's got two chests of pretty clothes to sell.. Might make another attempt later, as hunting those rabbits are quite annoying.

[Tomiro]

So the queen is dead. Somehow I managed to die to her when she had less than 1% HP remaining :-P She was multiple landmasses away from my base, so quite annoying to locate. I forgot to bring my root harness or eiter food (as a backup), but didn't feel like going back. Apart from that, a stupid death in a mine, that was totally avoidable. Spamming paths of mistlights turned out to work decently, and you can see them from a distance through the mist. Weapon durability is definitely a thing, as someone mentioned. On a long expedition, I had to use my axe for trash mobs, not to break my sword. I'm now keeping backup weapons on me.

Will probably take a break before I attempt Ashlands, just moving the base closer will take some time, and my current base location on the worldmap is a bit unclear. Maybe try to locate the trader again before that.