What's with the slow skill grind? Why hasn't it been fixed or changed? Is everyone really okey with that?

[Rolan McDolan]

So i did a little of calculation with wolfram alpha to get more or less how many skill points you need to get to 30, 50, 80, 100 and those numbers are way too high!
Take the bow for example, how many hits do you need to reach those levels:
lvl 30: 684 arrows
lvl 50: 2416 arrows
lvl 80: 7753 arrows
lvl 100: 20251 arrows
20,251 arrows to reach 100 from level 0...
Take into account that you also lose a % of ALL your skill levels every time you die.
That is WAY too grindy, and for those that say skills don't matter, that is absolutely not true, level 100 grants you 141% MORE DAMAGE and -33% stamina consumption.
If you like using multiple weapons, you're either forced to grind them like the worst MMORPG you've played in your life, OR stay at low levels forever.
To put the cherry on the top, experience points works with "hits", meaning that it doesn't matter if you're fighting low tier enemies with garbage weapons or if you're fighting dangerous opponents and striving to survive.

So... The early access has been out for years, and this has never been changed. Is everyone really okey with this? I'd personally rather vouch for skills to be removed and characters rebalanced than having this absurd level of grinding.

[electricdawn]

That's why I went full mage. Granted, I'm still at the early stages, and I can't summon anything, but I have no problems with not having enough Eitr.

The stuffed mushroom is better than seeker aspic, and if you eat both of them plus a salad, you should have more than enough Eitr. Yes, not much health to speak of (and I haven't been to Ashlands yet), but that's what you got the shield staff for.

[Mineralwasser]

Originally posted by electricdawn:

If you're calling it "grind", then you're playing it wrong.

I absolutely do not care about the numbers. I just play and have fun. You should maybe too?

It depends. Im having fun. But crossbow and both magic types with 0 skills feel weak. It needs some investment to feel satisfying. And thats the thing. You get that stuff pretty late and have to make that investment again. That is something that is on top of the resource investment for the staffs and the robes.

And to get into the "mage playstyle" that investment is needed. Some people dont commit and eat health food and wear an armor mix and cant do stuff with magic because the eitr requirement cant be handled that way. Dont get me wrong. Some people like that and have fun. If you fully commit to mage your bloodmagic bubble gets your lifepool. Your skeletons become your canonfooder. You get nice crowd control with the ice staff and nice aoe with the fire staff. How can you handle the eitrcost? Investment in skills and food commitment. At least 2x eitr and 1x stamina. That bubble is needed and to get more hp you need to get blood magic high enough.

Originally posted by Kairi ♡:

It's more about Eitr costs. At the moment my blood magic is lv 60, and after about 5 minutes of eating seeker aspic, I no longer have enough Eitr to summon anything. And food timer still is too high to eat next bite.

I´m curious, do you only use seeker aspic? What food combination do you use?

[Bored Peon]

I think the main issue is the magic comes far to late in the game as a skill and it takes forever to catch up. I did a start of a new game with a bunch of cooked eitr foods and the magic leveled fairly evenly with other skills.

[Kairi ♡]

Originally posted by Mineralwasser:

I´m curious, do you only use seeker aspic? What food combination do you use?

Mostly seeker aspic, yes, due to abundance of seeker meat after visits to infested mines and 1 for 2 craft. Stuffed mushroom is harder to get(ticks aren't too common) and porridge requires plenty of barley, which mostly goes for food for other players.

So usually it's seeker aspic + foods for extra health, should my shield suddenly break(as it did during Queen boss fight).

[Mharr]

I wonder if the plan is to make lower level magic available at an earlier stage of progression, the skill system does seem to suggest that.

[adritheonly]

Originally posted by Mharr:

I wonder if the plan is to make lower level magic available at an earlier stage of progression, the skill system does seem to suggest that.

Eitr before the mist?

[Kairi ♡]

Originally posted by Mharr:

I wonder if the plan is to make lower level magic available at an earlier stage of progression, the skill system does seem to suggest that.

I hope plan is to have mage armor providing Eitr supply, so lower level mage still can cast something without having to eat multiple Eitr-infused foods for single spell.

Let's see math - one cast of Dead Raiser is 100 Eitr, if your magic is lv 0. One cast of Staff of Protection is 60. When we account for decreasing supply of Eitr over time due to decreasing effects of food, very quickly beginner mage becomes unable to cast anything due to insufficient Eitr supply. As best available food in Mistlands gives you 85 Eitr.

It becomes even more important, if we remember, that low level mage has to cast spells more frequently - fireballs aren't as strong yet, shield isn't as durable either and summoned skeletons also aren't at their top game yet.

[electricdawn]

But crossbow and both magic types with 0 skills feel weak.

I totally cannot confirm that.

I nailed two two star seekers in a row with a fire staff within seconds. And zero (0) skill. If that is not overpowered, then I don't know what is.

@Kairi: Again, stuffed mushroom is BETTER than seeker aspic. And you really need BOTH of them to go full mage. I'm pretty sure that if Dead Raiser needs 100 eitr, than you are supposed to go full mage, so, eat at least TWO eitr foods, i.e. stuffed mushrooms AND seeker aspic.

[Mharr]

Originally posted by adritheonly:

Eitr before the mist?

Maybe? The mist could unlock regeneration and battle magic as it currently exists, with prior sources being single-use eitr points for utility spells and perhaps rune crafting.

[Mineralwasser]

Originally posted by Kairi ♡:

Originally posted by Mineralwasser:

I´m curious, do you only use seeker aspic? What food combination do you use?

Mostly seeker aspic, yes, due to abundance of seeker meat after visits to infested mines and 1 for 2 craft. Stuffed mushroom is harder to get(ticks aren't too common) and porridge requires plenty of barley, which mostly goes for food for other players.

Thank you for your reply. I agree with using seeker aspic. It´s cheaper than the other stuff. I can say that later you will get 3x other options for eitrfood that help with managing eitr demands without so many resources reqiured for other food that other players may need.

It will be more manageable if you reach ashlands.

[adritheonly]

Originally posted by Mharr:

Originally posted by adritheonly:

Eitr before the mist?

Maybe? The mist could unlock regeneration and battle magic as it currently exists, with prior sources being single-use eitr points for utility spells and perhaps rune crafting.

The entire game would have to be reworked to incorp. sap and brains before the mist. I think much of the problem stems from the "I'm a mage" idea. This is not DnD. To get to eitr you have to be a warrior first. I had very little magic skills when I entered Ashlands but the sheer volume of fights altered that pretty quickly. Mostly, as has been mentioned before by others, people are too preoccupied with skills and forget to play. If one do this skills is just something you know is getting better the more you practice and fight, much as in real life.

[electricdawn]

Mostly, as has been mentioned before by others, people are too preoccupied with skills and forget to play.

This. 'nuff said.

[Mineralwasser]

Originally posted by electricdawn:

I totally cannot confirm that.

I nailed two two star seekers in a row with a fire staff within seconds. And zero (0) skill. If that is not overpowered, then I don't know what is.

I guess that depends on the difficulty. :D So i need to ask what difficulty we are talking about. I played a lot on very hard lately and remember that it felt not so satisfying but ok even when i played on normal difficulty. Felt underpowered even more for harder difficulties. (with 0 skill). With a sufficient skilllevel it becomes more than ok. it becomes overpowered. I think one particular staff Staff of the wild which was introduced in ashlands does not have that problem with a skilllevel to be semi required. That think wrecks .... So it may also be dependend of the staff. I think that is true for the staff of protection. The gained effective hp is quite low at the beginning and getting levels through natural progression is tedious/risky.

Maybe one should consider just mistlands, ashlands and later deep north when it comes to skillprogression in relation to magic. If someone uses magic through these biomes the skilllevel will have a similar level compared to other skills when reaching the last biome. That´s what i think at least.

[Fleshling]

Originally posted by adritheonly:

Originally posted by Mharr:

Maybe? The mist could unlock regeneration and battle magic as it currently exists, with prior sources being single-use eitr points for utility spells and perhaps rune crafting.

The entire game would have to be reworked to incorp. sap and brains before the mist. I think much of the problem stems from the "I'm a mage" idea. This is not DnD. To get to eitr you have to be a warrior first. I had very little magic skills when I entered Ashlands but the sheer volume of fights altered that pretty quickly. Mostly, as has been mentioned before by others, people are too preoccupied with skills and forget to play. If one do this skills is just something you know is getting better the more you practice and fight, much as in real life.

Blood magic will also start to level in the Ashlands. Simply because more enemies do "Chop" and "Pickaxe" damage that does nothing to a player but will damage a bubble. So, the bubble can be popped far quicker than you expect by Ashlands mobs.

[Kairi ♡]

Originally posted by Mineralwasser:

Originally posted by Kairi ♡:

Mostly seeker aspic, yes, due to abundance of seeker meat after visits to infested mines and 1 for 2 craft. Stuffed mushroom is harder to get(ticks aren't too common) and porridge requires plenty of barley, which mostly goes for food for other players.

Thank you for your reply. I agree with using seeker aspic. It´s cheaper than the other stuff. I can say that later you will get 3x other options for eitrfood that help with managing eitr demands without so many resources reqiured for other food that other players may need.

It will be more manageable if you reach ashlands.

I did reach ashlands, but may drop game at that point, as "welcoming party" murdered other player(he drowned after being pushed into boiling waters, despite having best armor), destroyed our boat, and I did log out on some rock with Morgen and horde of charred skeletons all very eager to reach me. With all of them having high resistance to fire, so my go-to Staff of Embers doesn't help much and my mana shield taking heavy fire from charred marksmen.

Originally posted by electricdawn:

I nailed two two star seekers in a row with a fire staff within seconds. And zero (0) skill. If that is not overpowered, then I don't know what is.

@Kairi: Again, stuffed mushroom is BETTER than seeker aspic. And you really need BOTH of them to go full mage. I'm pretty sure that if Dead Raiser needs 100 eitr, than you are supposed to go full mage, so, eat at least TWO eitr foods, i.e. stuffed mushrooms AND seeker aspic.

Didn't run into ticks that often to make those. And really want to make my Eitr-weave set actually be worth resources spent on it, as +100% Eitr regeneration is quite underwhelming, and Embra set will be 130% regeneration - not exactly what one would want to travel to Ashlands for.