Feedback from a 1000+ hour player

[MrSmellybeard]

Intro

I've been wanting to post this for a while but I was close to 1000 hours and to beating Ashlands, so I wanted to wait until I had achieved those things. This doesn't mean I'm an expert at all things Valheim, but it does mean that I've seen some stuff, man!

What follows is a discussion/review/feedback post for my experiences, having played this game several times through since I purchased it in February 2021. Please note that this is based on the state of the game, as it exists today. Once 1.0 hits I might do a full review but for now, just this. Many of these things have been said already, but I'm still adding my voice as I rather love this game and hope to see a 1.0 release that encompasses the best version of Valheim it can be.

I'll be organizing this into biome feedback, followed by some general feedback. Starting with...

Biome Feedback

Meadows to Plains

Score: 10/10

No notes!

Okay okay, I'll have a few things to say in the general section, but I really feel the experience from first landing in the meadows until you defeat Yagluth is excellent. The pacing and difficulty scaling just works, the boss progression feels meaningful, and the Hearth and Home update really fleshed out things that were missing. This just hits all the right notes for me and I've played this through several times, including one where the majority of it was a no-map playthrough. More on that later though.

Mistlands

Score: 8/10

Mistlands is where things shift. If you've played to this point, you kind of know what I'm talking about. The difficulty spikes up a bit but the game expands a little as well. I have four key pieces of feedback...

The terrain...

This biome has some really cool terrain! I really like the look of it--when you can see it, more on this later--and the elevation diversity really makes it feel unique. Unfortunately, it's just a bit too much. All too often you have no choice except to go over the spikes, which leaves you sitting and regenerating stamina a lot. I tend to spend most of my gameplay in the Fenris armor and even I start to get worn out on this zone. Enemies also suffer no stamina penalties and so when they chase you up there, it can be quite challenging.

The core issue, to me, is that there's just not enough level ground in the zone. As I said, I think the elevation diversity is an excellent touch, but perhaps the terrain generation could be tweaked some to emphasize the idea of winding passes between the high, rocky spikes. You'll still want to go over from time to time, but as it stands now those level areas are just too few and far between. At least on any of the seeds I've played, at any rate.

The mist...

All that beautiful terrain is undermined by the mist. I think the idea of an oppressive mist limiting your view is really cool, but it feels like it's a little overkill. I did some digging and it looks like the view distance the wisplight provides is 6m. This could safely be doubled, even tripled, and I still feel like the mist is accomplishing its goal. Personally, I like to play a mod-free experience, but it looks like this is something that a lot of people use mods to fix. When so many folks resort to a mod to fix a major pain point, perhaps its time to consider an adjustment. A side bonus but something that might be interesting would be to significantly diminish the mist once the Queen has been defeated.

Eitr...

I actually love Eitr. In and of itself, I think it's a fantastic addition. I think that some of the staves could use some tweaking, but there's time for that yet and I don't really have any meaningful feedback on that front, preferring to just wait and see what a 1.0 balance pass looks like.

With that said, having Eitr start in the sixth biome has always felt a bit awkward to me. It might not be a bad idea to look for areas to bring weaker versions of Eitr staff, or even just utilitarian/buff Eitr functionality, to earlier tiers. This lets players start to flesh out those skills before they really open up in later tiers.

The Queen...

This is my least favourite boss in the game, which is a shame because it's actually quite a unique and cool arena. What completely diminishes the experience for me is that she just spams her adds too much. On my most recent solo playthrough I decided I wanted to try to beat her without any kind of cheese strategies. Just pure combat. It took me 20 minutes to get her to 90% health. It wasn't hard, per se, I just spent too much time kiting seekers around the room so I could isolate and kill them, which left me very little time to actually put damage on the Queen. After this I gave up and employed the entry-way 2h hammer cheese strat and had her finished in the next 20 minutes.

This fight needs work. The time between add summons could be increased or, like Fader, the adds she summons could be weaker versions of their normal selves. Overall I don't mind the Mistlands, an 8/10 score is quite good, but I absolutely loathe this fight. Not because it's hard, just because it's annoying.

Ashlands

Score: 5/10

This is where my enjoyment of the game tanked. I really can't understate how much I love this game, but Ashlands just wasn't in line with the rest of the game's experience. I three key areas that diminish the experience for me...

The enemies...

There's just too many and they take too much damage. While they're certainly challenging, they aren't that hard. I understand how the AI behaves in this game and like most things, you can just walk away to dodge their attacks. However, they take so much damage and they come at you in such high numbers that it's just tedious.

I want to go gather some Ashwood so I can utilize them in a build. I found a stand of trees and have to clear out ~7 enemies. I do so and begin chopping. I get maybe two trees down and now I have another ~7 enemies to fight, including a 1-star Askvin and a 1-star Warrior. It takes some time but I kill them too. I get a couple more trees and have to do it all over again.

See what I mean? It's just... excessive. It feels like you can have enemies that take a lot of damage, or enemies that come at you in high numbers, but both at the same time is just not terribly fun. I feel like I can't do anything in Ashlands because when I try, I just spend all my time clearing out enemies. Mistlands can certainly ramp up the number of baddies you have to fight, I've certainly had a run where I got a 3-pack of Seekers (including a 1-star) along with a Soldier and a Gjall, but not only are these infrequent, when I clear them out the zone stays secure for a while and I can get some gathering or building done.

Grausten...

Just a short bit of feedback here. I haven't spent too much time building with Grausten yet and I've seen some interesting builds online. Unfortunately, it just feels very limiting. Like there are pieces that are supposed to be there, but are missing. We need a Hearth and Home style update for Grausten to flesh it out, I think, so hopefully that's something that's coming in the future.

The performance...

Something's up with Ashlands. I haven't cleared it in my solo world yet, but on a multiplayer world I host as a dedicated server and play with two other friends, Ashlands just chunks. We've had a few issues in other biomes but they are largely just fine; however, everything lags in Ashlands. In this particular playthrough I'm taking on a support/mage role so it has a little less impact on me, though I've certainly had a fireball or two just completely fizzle, but my friends playing melee focused are really struggling to time the parry with the lag.

I hope that Ashlands will get some performance tweaks with a 1.0 release.

[BONUS] Fader...

I'm throwing a positive in here because I actually loved this fight. I thought the mechanics were interesting and and the fight was very grand. The green glow of Fader's attacks really contrasts nicely with the Ashlands backdrop and I thought his moves were telegraphed reasonably well so that you can learn them and avoid his attacks. I got bit a few times, but it was my first time and I look forward to this fight in the future.

I will offer one small area of feedback... consider making his attacks not damage structures (or just rock) in particular. Over the course of the fight he not only obliterated every part of his arena, he also got darn near every rock in the area. This led to a lot of clutter on the ground and kind of diminished how cool is arena is. I suppose his arena could also be made indestructible but that doesn't really mitigate all the rocks that get demo'd as well. I mean sure, it's free Grausten, but that stuff isn't hard to come by anyway.

General Feedback

The Drakkar

This is a very cool ship and I was excited to make it. Then I discovered that it's just too giant to fit in the world. I actually think the idea of having a large ship to sail the oceans and then smaller ships to sail to land and back is really cool, but the current world gen just doesn't support it. The ocean isn't really deep enough to make this something I want to use.

As it is now, in my latest playthrough, I built a giant dock for it and dredged all the canals leading out of my base lagoon, then realized how awkward it is I sailed it to the Ashlands and parked it there, going back to just using the Longship for all my sailing needs.

This should be a compelling upgrade given its grandeur and increased storage size, but the ocean terrain generation needs a tweak to support it. It could also offer a speed increase over the Longship to make it desirable for long journeys.

The Skill System

I like the general idea of the skill system and how progressing in them offers you increased proficiency with them, but I find the punishment for death of a 5% skill loss to be just too much. I don't die very often, but when I do I lose several play sessions of skill progress. For the skills I use often, I can get them back and it's not the end of the world, but for skills I don't use often, or that progress slowly (lookin' at you, Blood Magic), it's quite tedious.

I'd like to suggest a system of short-term and long-term memory for skills. As you continue to use skills over time, you increase in proficiency but this is a short-term memory bonus. If you die, you lose a percentage of the skill progress you have gained. However, if you continue to use those skills and don't die for some time, your progress becomes ingrained in you and they are shifted to long-term memory. When you die, you either don't lose skill progress that is in long-term memory at all, or at a significantly reduced rate.

This keeps some of the risk for dying, especially for skills you're actively working on, but dying to 1-star seeker that appears out of nowhere behind you won't stall out the farming skill you gained several sessions back when you did your last food restock.

No Map Mode

On my most recent solo playthrough I tried this... and absolutely loved it. Valheim is an extremely atmospheric game for me and having no map really drove home how incredible the game is. I used a combination of pathways and marker structures to navigate my world and really enjoyed playing this way.

Unfortunately, I had to turn this off as I was searching for Moder as I hit a run of misty/stormy days that prevented me from being able to navigate at all. I will offer the following enhancements that could be utilized to improve a no-map playthrough. These can be inserted into the game's existing progression.

1. Cartography Table Enhancement
   This is something you can construct as you enter the Black Forest level of progression. Add another interaction point to it that will open up a map with no position marker on it. This will show you your world map with all your recorded exploration, but that's it. You will have no idea where you are on that map, but you can start to build out a picture of your surroundings. It would be especially beneficial if the map-view wasn't like the normal game map, but was instead a simplified view that looked more like a crude drawing showing rough coastline features and biome information. No refined details and only accessible from the table itself.
   
2. Sunstone
   Crafted via a Crystal, obtained from a Stone Golem in the Mountain biome, this item would be something your character can equip like a weapon. When your secondary attack button is held, your character holds up the item and as you turn your character left-right you can start to get an impression of what direction the sun is. Google "Viking Sunstone" for the inspiration.
   
   The intent behind this item is that it will give you a rough indication of what direction the sun is in, even if the sky is overcast, allowing you to navigate in mist and storms when you can't see the sky.
   
3. Compass
   Crafted via Iron, Black Metal, Needle from a Deathquito, and a Grey Dwarf Eye, this item is used similarly to the sunstone except that the item can operate at night time. The needle should glow slightly at night (thanks to the Grey Dwarf Eye)

Final Thoughts

Well, that marks the end of my feedback. I have been loving this game for a long time but things have been shifting and I wanted to offer my thoughts as we near the 1.0 release. Whether or not the final product lands where I want it to, this is a game that has given me many hours of enjoyment. I've not only purchased it for myself, but have gifted it to several friends as well. This was a game that was there for me when I needed it to be, and I will always find a way to enjoy it.

Thanks for reading :)

[OctoberSky]

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3259776284

[knighttemplar1960]

I concur with most of your assessment of the game as it stands now. To add a bit to Mistlands if you could start out with the feather cloak it would make a big difference but I actually found myself wishing for water walking boots. Even with the feather cape if I fell into water I was pretty much toast. Mistlands mist is just too thick and the wisp light is both slow and deficient.

The magic system in Mistlands isn't thematic to Norse myth but its still fun. The problem is you add an entirely new class at Mistlands and have no opportunity to skill up through normal play. That branch should really start in Black forest with perhaps the yellow mushrooms providing eitr and wands for weapons. Jumping to another type eitr in the mountains with rods being available as weapons.

You've nailed the tedium in both Mistlands and Ashlands though I would rate them differently. For me Ashlands is 8/10 and MIstlands is 5/10 I'd rather spend more time in Ashlands than in Mistlands.

The game also needs improvements to stealth and knife. The 2 are quite fun in combination but knife + stealth becomes inferior to other weapons from Mountains on.

[jonnin]

I also agree with it. Grausten specifically ... its not great looking, and the roofing is just a trainwreck, the arches can be pretty but its one trick pony that won't fit together well when you try to do something else with it. The walls and are great -- rock walls with the thickness of wood are useful. The floor is just unattractive to me, yet its useful to make the big floors sometimes for construction reasons and we have rugs.

--------------------
I did magic from the meadows on a new character with some 'help' (built the repair station and dumped food and eitr armor set and staves etc off for the new guy) and its a fine experience. Considerably overpowered in the meadows (who cares?) and a bit in the forest as well (a little off putting) but feels good the rest of the way to be a mage from the get go.

[Ashley]

Originally posted by knighttemplar1960:

I concur with most of your assessment of the game as it stands now. To add a bit to Mistlands if you could start out with the feather cloak it would make a big difference but I actually found myself wishing for water walking boots. Even with the feather cape if I fell into water I was pretty much toast. Mistlands mist is just too thick and the wisp light is both slow and deficient.

The magic system in Mistlands isn't thematic to Norse myth but its still fun. The problem is you add an entirely new class at Mistlands and have no opportunity to skill up through normal play. That branch should really start in Black forest with perhaps the yellow mushrooms providing eitr and wands for weapons. Jumping to another type eitr in the mountains with rods being available as weapons.

You've nailed the tedium in both Mistlands and Ashlands though I would rate them differently. For me Ashlands is 8/10 and MIstlands is 5/10 I'd rather spend more time in Ashlands than in Mistlands.

The game also needs improvements to stealth and knife. The 2 are quite fun in combination but knife + stealth becomes inferior to other weapons from Mountains on.

I just have no idea (besides they needed a new feature to bring more hype for Mistlands) that magic is introduced in Mistlands when Greydwarves, the sutrs, the werewolf mages and the fuling's all use magic

And I found magic kinda sucky because you don't have levels in it. By the time you actually get all the magic gear you're done with Mistlands and by that point if you've been good and dying minimally you can have melee combat skills at like 70-80+ by that point.

[Tomiro]

Originally posted by Ashley:

And I found magic kinda sucky because you don't have levels in it. By the time you actually get all the magic gear you're done with Mistlands and by that point if you've been good and dying minimally you can have melee combat skills at like 70-80+ by that point.

This is one of the reasons that I almost never use magic once I get access to it in a normal run. Also we are a Viking, not Harry Potter playing around with his wand.

[nixlan]

The Player base has repeated, repeated, and repeated that Ashlands is NOT enjoyable, and the tedious nature of killing the same set of 7+ mobs, that respawn every 30 seconds is a game killer.

I stopped playing after 2,000 hours. Nearly ALL additions-changes after Mistlands literally just punish the player for simply playing.

[Night Writer]

I have 600+ hours and Mistlands was actually the one thing that almost caused me to hang up the game for good. All I can say is thank God for the modding community in this game or my journey would have stopped the moment I entered the Mistlands. Such a beautiful biome, great scenery and interesting enemies, you just can't see em, really sad.
There is a reason why there's a mod to remove all the Mist. Players have been saying this since the beginning of the update. After the mist is gone, Mistlands became an enjoyable biome to explore, and build in. Sadly I did give up the game until the 1.0 (non-early access) release comes out. I got tired of all the updates messing with my mods, and figured I'd come back to it once it's complete. Currently playing Enshrouded now.

[Snooch]

3000+ hour player here. People crying about a game being challenging is one of the saddest things to behold.

Thank god the devs just ignore you.

[Draconis]

I think the ashlands actually need something that is simple to build and keeps mobs away for quite a time. Some kind of buildable barrier that does not involve bringing tons of materials.
I did indeed try to surround a stand of trees with grausten walls to chop them in piece. It worked better than I expected, but the steps involved were just overkill:
- bring in the stonecutter and the workbench
- set up a shield generator, so the workbench and stone cutter don't get burned
- build all the walls (10 - 12 grausten each 4m... that sums up a lot)
I would rather like to have a buildable sandsack barrier that is not immune to fire, does not provide support for buildings, has a lot of HP (so it might burn but take long until it burns down). These could be just high enough so we still get hit by archers if we don't sneak and it would be perfect.
But no, they just send us into a warzone and don't let us build the appropriate defenses.....

And that's actually why I can't take that hint from that raven actually serious.

[BIT Bear]

Originally posted by Snooch:

3000+ hour player here. People crying about a game being challenging is one of the saddest things to behold.

Thank god the devs just ignore you.

Just because the raven says "prepare for war" does not give an excuse to bombard the player with mob spam that is just tedious to deal with. It's not a challenge. It's annoying.

And also it's bad for players and server performance.

[Rungar]

Great assessment! I agree with most of it but i actually think Mistlands is technically the best biome content wise but your right they went way too far with the mist and the queen fight is meh. I have no issues with the terrain. I'm in full agreement with your Ashlands assessment though.

[SomethingCoolBro]

Yeah the no-map mode starts off amazing. You really have to pay attention to the world, and it's super immersive. But after a while, with such huge distances, it's really difficult to navigate. A compass or some kind of limited waypoint system would be a nice middle ground.

[knighttemplar1960]

Originally posted by Ashley:

I just have no idea (besides they needed a new feature to bring more hype for Mistlands) that magic is introduced in Mistlands when Greydwarves, the sutrs, the werewolf mages and the fuling's all use magic

And I found magic kinda sucky because you don't have levels in it. By the time you actually get all the magic gear you're done with Mistlands and by that point if you've been good and dying minimally you can have melee combat skills at like 70-80+ by that point.

You get magic in the black forest (meads) its just not spells and incantations. Viking runic magic was more charms and blessings than sorcery and summoning.

You also gain access to teleportation in the black forest. Even the Norse deities didn't get to do that. The best they could do was shape shift into a bird and fly or into a deer and run. Silver damaging the undead isn't a Norse thing either. That first became popular in vampire literature 1928.

[MΛRCUS HΞLIUS]

Does OP really think the devs are going to read this? Let alone take action based on it? XD

[Cattastrafy]

Agree with most stuff here.

Might be some misunderstanding with how to traverse mistlands terrain here, but that's a skill issue I guess. Either way I don't love the layout and I mostly dislike the way the mist is handled, upgraded wisp lights please!

Completely disagree with queen fight almost entirely. She has probably too many hp by a slight margin, but I find everything else fine. If it takes you 20m to get her to 90%, you're failing hard somewhere. Kite her around one of the pillars on the ground floor to isolate and kill adds without her messing with ya. Or just mage her. I look forward to the queen fight more than any part of my playthrough each time. But that's just me!