Fenris Claws - A Nice Idea, but Very Lackluster

[PnutButtrCrepes]

SPOILERS FOR THOSE WHO HAVE NOT MADE IT TO THE MOUNTAIN BIOME, THIS IS YOUR WARNING


Okay, I personally love the aesthetic of the Fenris Armor. It looks cool, it grants you some very useful bonuses, and it actually increases your speed. It's a welcome change of pace from the previous armor progression. Because I was so impressed with the armor, I expected great things from the accompanying weapon: the Flesh Rippers. However...

I just found the Flesh Rippers really lame, to be honest. They're just an improved fist. No special animations or visible movement differences from what I could tell from just punching. However, I could forgive all of that if they had a damn secondary attack. I was expecting some sort of pounce or lunge or anything reminiscent of an actual wolf or Fenring, but no. Given that this weapon feels different from other weapons in the game (and is the only weapon to my knowledge to use the Fist stat), I expected the play style to be more wolf-like. Does anyone else feel this disappointment?

[Faceplant]

My biggest disappointments with the flesh rippers are the slow speed (compared to the knife), and the lack of the jump attack of the knife. With a knife, I can down most mobs before they can even think about attacking, even wolves.

The flesh rippers just have a 1-2 punch that each do more damage than most knives, but it doesn't (as far as I've seen) have the 3rd attack that the knife has, which is critical in many cases, and those two punches takes almost as long as all three attacks with a knife.

FWIW, there is nothing that I won't/can't attack with Fenris armor and a knife. Berzerkers are so slow you can run circles around them while you slice them up. You kill a lox with a sneak secondary followed by a few slashes while it's stunned. I even killed a few stone golems with a silver knife, which is not fun, but it works eventually.

Last night I fought two lox, three fuling, and two deathsquito at the same time in Fenris armor with a black metal knife, although I had bonemass ability most of the fight. Turns out that trying to one-shot a lox next to his buddies and a fuling village tends to stir up a bit more trouble than you might be looking for.

I'm really looking forward to the Mistlands knives. I've seen videos of them doing nearly 2000 damage to a soldier with a sneak secondary. Flesh rippers, of course, shouldn't be capable of that much, but if they had a sneak jump secondary they would be much more useful.

I had carried them around all the time to build up my skill, but recently put them in a chest when I made the black metal knife. I'd rather carry the silver knife as a backup. It's much more useful than the flesh rippers, especially with the extra sprit damage against growths.

[Rhapsody]

Nguyên văn bởi Faceplant8:

My biggest disappointments with the flesh rippers are the slow speed (compared to the knife), and the lack of the jump attack of the knife. With a knife, I can down most mobs before they can even think about attacking, even wolves.

The flesh rippers just have a 1-2 punch that each do more damage than most knives, but it doesn't (as far as I've seen) have the 3rd attack that the knife has, which is critical in many cases, and those two punches takes almost as long as all three attacks with a knife.

It would be silly if they functioned exactly same way as knives.

Every second attack (mean left hook?) with flesh rippers deals approximately 50% more damage.

[Faceplant]

Nguyên văn bởi Rhapsody:

Nguyên văn bởi Faceplant8:

My biggest disappointments with the flesh rippers are the slow speed (compared to the knife), and the lack of the jump attack of the knife. With a knife, I can down most mobs before they can even think about attacking, even wolves.

The flesh rippers just have a 1-2 punch that each do more damage than most knives, but it doesn't (as far as I've seen) have the 3rd attack that the knife has, which is critical in many cases, and those two punches takes almost as long as all three attacks with a knife.

It would be silly if they functioned exactly same way as knives.

Every second attack (mean left hook?) with flesh rippers deals approximately 50% more damage.

They don't have to function exactly the same, but they're supposed to be the same as bare fists, so it makes no sense to me that they're slower than using a knife. The pounce maneuver also makes more sense (IMO) with flesh rippers than it does with a knife, but that was already taken by knife when flesh rippers came out, so that might explain that difference.

You can make a fully upgraded silver knife out of a fraction of a single silver vain, but it can take several ice caves spread across multiple mountains to get the mats for flesh rippers. I would think they would be better, not worse.

[Rhapsody]

Nguyên văn bởi Faceplant8:

The pounce maneuver also makes more sense (IMO) with flesh rippers than it does with a knife, but that was already taken by knife when flesh rippers came out, so that might explain that difference.

Pouncing would fit the wolf-rippers thematically, but one should be capable of applying way more force by using both hands on a sturdy dagger in reverse grip than with fist-claws. Realistically speaking, it would probably be impractical and dangerous to slam your fists in a similar manner.

Rippers deal more damage per strike and cost less stamina to use, knives are faster and deal half their damage as piercing. Rippers also have 100 points more durability, which may make them more desirable for those long scouting runs over the mountains and plains. You can also parry with them without having your movement speed reduced, to a certain extent.

[Faceplant]

Nguyên văn bởi Rhapsody:

Rippers deal more damage per strike and cost less stamina to use, knives are faster and deal half their damage as piercing. Rippers also have 100 points more durability, which may make them more desirable for those long scouting runs over the mountains and plains. You can also parry with them without having your movement speed reduced, to a certain extent.

More damage per strike, but less damage overall, since you get the third strike with a knife for double damage, and the three strikes don't take much longer than the two with flesh rippers. The practical affect is that the knife does more damage.

In Fenris armor, movement is not an issue. I barely notice when I have my buckler out, and a buckler is better for parrying than the flesh rippers.

I don't know if you've actually every used the two together, but, at least for me, there's a drastic difference between the two. So much, that I don't even trust using them for anything but lesser enemies.

They don't even work as well against deathsquitos. The knife is noticeably worse than the sword in this case, due to the shorter range, but the flesh rippers are even worse, maybe also due to range.

[Rhapsody]

Everything works against deathsquitos... everything, except not using one's ears.

I never made the knife since it was introduced too late for me to make use of. I had black metal knife but recently gave it away, and I'm not sure if it's comparable.

The actual problem with flesh rippers is that they deal slashing damage, which is in most cases easier dealt by your axe. If I want to deal piercing damage, I use spear for that, not a knife. But that's why I'm holding out hope for an elemental fist weapon. That would almost certainly have its uses.

[Faceplant]

Nguyên văn bởi Rhapsody:

Everything works against deathsquitos... everything, except not using one's ears.

I never made the knife since it was introduced too late for me to make use of. I had black metal knife but recently gave it away, and I'm not sure if it's comparable.

The actual problem with flesh rippers is that they deal slashing damage, which is in most cases easier dealt by your axe. If I want to deal piercing damage, I use spear for that, not a knife. But that's why I'm holding out hope for an elemental fist weapon. That would almost certainly have its uses.

Everything works against desthsquitos if you hit them, but if they're just a tad too high, you can't hit them.

I don't select weapons on damage type, but what the the advantage of ax over sword for slash? Is it just that you don't carry a sword? I don't think I've every used a spear, so I don't know how it compares to the knife.

I'm really just using knife because I'm doing an ultralight run, but I'm surprised how well it works. I assumed the flesh rippers would be nearly the ultimate, but that didn't work out.

I just made the BM knife, and it is very good. That's what I used to nearly 1-shot a lox with. One lunge, a couple of slashes, and it was down in a couple of seconds.

[Rhapsody]

Nguyên văn bởi Faceplant8:

Is it just that you don't carry a sword? I don't think I've every used a spear, so I don't know how it compares to the knife.

Swords are a tiny bit faster and have slightly better reach, and back in the day axes didn't have the downward chop, and the sword thrust is still far more destructive than the chop. Only sword I ever had before Mistwalker was Silver sword, and even that I gave away when I got the former. I only used swords before Mistwalker in boss fights.

Spears probably lose to knives in pure DPS race, but I like the throwing ability. It's a decent way of catching some game without spending arrows. Carapace spear packs enough of a punch to stagger a lox before it can chew off your face: Parry -> stab until it gets staggered again. Dunno if that works with knives.

We might get a new knife in ashlands unless they make one available as part of a minor update. Overall I wish I had used them a bit more, but I just didn't have enough black metal to upgrade.

[Hobo Misanthropus]

Prefer the kick. The pounce idea is bad, 100% chance of ruining your sneak attacks or missing the target altogether, just like the fenrings do.

[Faceplant]

Nguyên văn bởi Hobo Misanthropus:

Prefer the kick. The pounce idea is bad, 100% chance of ruining your sneak attacks or missing the target altogether, just like the fenrings do.

I must be missing something with the kick attack. It only seems to do about the same damage as a single punch. Is there something more than that?

My experience with the pounce (with a knife) is exactly opposite. I do miss occasionally, but that's only really when I'm running around in combat and attacking a smaller target, which is not normally necessary. I don't know how you miss a lox when you're standing right next to it doing a sneak attack.

[Rhapsody]

It's been a while so I had to refresh my memory, but the parrying characteristic of rippers is still enough for me to parry both squitos as well as fulings while at 120 max health or so.

[Who Dat]

Nguyên văn bởi Faceplant8:

Nguyên văn bởi Hobo Misanthropus:

Prefer the kick. The pounce idea is bad, 100% chance of ruining your sneak attacks or missing the target altogether, just like the fenrings do.

I must be missing something with the kick attack. It only seems to do about the same damage as a single punch. Is there something more than that?

My experience with the pounce (with a knife) is exactly opposite. I do miss occasionally, but that's only really when I'm running around in combat and attacking a smaller target, which is not normally necessary. I don't know how you miss a lox when you're standing right next to it doing a sneak attack.

The kick stuns most enemies in one hit, Trolls, Seekers from mistlands, and fuling berserks except sometime they take a second kick to stun them.

when an enemies stun bar is depleted they get stunned and during this time attacks on them do increased damage based on your weapons statistics, due to the fast speed of the weapon stunning someone results in instant death.

in addition to this, the stun bar doesn't fully recover, once its depleted it can stay depleted by spamming an attack right after they recover from the stun animation, stunlocking them.

it literally does not matter how much damage any other weapon does, these things can take on any enemy just by kicking them and its kind of absurd, especially given the fact that if i loot enough mountain biomes i can take these weapons through all the way into mistlands, i dont have to make any black metal weapons (except pickaxes and axes) i do not have to make any shields, my only focus on a given playthrough is copper knife- abysal knife- flesh rippers, and then i am good to go to the end of the game.

[Rhapsody]

Nguyên văn bởi Who Dat:

The kick stuns most enemies in one hit, Trolls, Seekers from mistlands, and fuling berserks except sometime they take a second kick to stun them.

I guess I've just not been crazy enough to try kicking seekers or berserkers to death, maybe I should give that a try. I've been trying to find a source for how much staggering the kick does in relation to its damage, but I guess I have a good idea now – berserkers have stagger limit of 240 (from health of 800 * 0,3)... How many kicks does it take? I guess I'm going to find out soon enough but feel free to share details of your findings if you can.

[Faceplant]

Nguyên văn bởi Who Dat:

The kick stuns most enemies in one hit, Trolls, Seekers from mistlands, and fuling berserks except sometime they take a second kick to stun them.

Thanks. I finally found the info on the stagger page of the wiki, which says the kick has a 6x stagger bonus. I guess there's a tradeoff of staggering with a kick or parry with a buckler, but I can see the appeal of not making many of the weapons.

I'll have to try kicking around some fuling with the rippers to see how it works!

[Rhapsody]

Nguyên văn bởi Faceplant8:

Thanks. I finally found the info on the stagger page of the wiki

Thanks for that info too, I forgot to look on the article.

I guess that means rippers cause up to 360 staggering with the kick, it's more than enough for berserkers.

For a slash-resistant enemy, only an enemy with more than 600 or so HP and regular 30% stagger limit should be immune to being staggered instantly by being booted. For enemies without vulnerability or resistance, the HP limit is 1200. That includes quite a lot of opponents, including dvergr rogues...

Edit: Took me a while to find a zerker, couldn't be easier.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxmM0-gZLSU