Ashlands - Magic or Melee? (Advice for solo play please)

[HangarPilot]

Every run I always follow the same progression ... I start building my club skill right away because the Iron Mace will be my weapon of choice for Bonemass and Frostner for Yagluth. Paired with shield to get the parry and then give the beat down.

As soon as I can make the bronze atgeir I start working my polearm skill as well. The secondary attack of the pole arm is simply devastating in it's ability to knockback/stun and works great crowd control (greydwarves, fulings, seekers). It's ability to cheese and clip through walls and kill mobs on the other side of doors comes in handy in dungeons too!

And we must not forget the bow. The ability to one-shot from range, kite mobs, and frost-arrow a beserker to death before he can reach you is awesome.

Food mix: x1 Stamina, 2x Health (best available of course).

I dabbled in magic and I see the appeal.

But it doesn't seem viable eating a single eitr food. If I eat x1 eitr x2 heath ... I seem effective at nothing. Eitr drains too quickly and I burn what little stamina I have running away while the eitr recharges. Eating x1 eitr x1 stamina x1 health seems to be ok and the magic output is good ... but now I'm a "glass cannon" and can't take a hit.

The magic is quite fun if you go "backwards" to an earlier biome with it... but seems like a recipe for disaster trying to break into a new one (Ashlands).

I just made it to the Ashlands yesterday. Frostner, Himminafl, and Spinesnap are doing ok ... but I'm not having "fun" being overwhelmed. Health Mead and Bonemass power when it gets spicy is keeping me alive (barely).

My personal embargo on spoilers has come to an end so I hit up YT ... seems the most popular opinion is magic is the best way to go.

Is it? If so, how do I make it viable without ending up as a "glass cannon"?

[Ammikaameri]

I play with 1 eitr, 1 health and 1 stamina food most of the time and go hybrid, with all heavy armor and doing mostly melee while using the occasional spells in between, like the shield staff or staff of embers. None of the Ashland enemies can one hit you even if you use only one health food. Starred enemies being the exception, 2 star warriors will most likely instantly kill you if they hit. This is the build I used most of the time when I first entered ashlands and it worked fine.

If I want to have more room in my inventory I leave the staffs and go 2 stamina and 1 health food. The lack of stamina is usually what gets you killed so I don't think going with 2 health foods is a good idea.

Also use the stamina regen potion, helps a lot.

[Steve]

I haven't used magic in either Mistlands or Ashlands. Running heavy armor w/ war cape (the one that reduces stamina for combat actions), 2h1s and firewine, sword and shield for the most part. Invested in Nidhogg as soon as I could, managed to find enough iolite for the lightning version and it SLAPS. Root bow is nice for charred warriors. Even if it doesn't root it still hits hard, though you can go lightning too. IDK about the bloodstone ones. Those might be at their most useful paired with Bonemass, but I didn't keep Bonemass power long enough to test. (Fader's power is just amazing. >.>)

Ditch the feather cape if you're still wearing it. Ashlands is made of fire and that cape hates fire. The bonuses are not worth the downside.

[Nerevar]

Originally posted by Steve the Player of Games:

I haven't used magic in either Mistlands or Ashlands. Running heavy armor w/ war cape (the one that reduces stamina for combat actions), 2h1s and firewine, sword and shield for the most part. Invested in Nidhogg as soon as I could, managed to find enough iolite for the lightning version and it SLAPS. Root bow is nice for charred warriors. Even if it doesn't root it still hits hard, though you can go lightning too. IDK about the bloodstone ones. Those might be at their most useful paired with Bonemass, but I didn't keep Bonemass power long enough to test. (Fader's power is just amazing. >.>)

Ditch the feather cape if you're still wearing it. Ashlands is made of fire and that cape hates fire. The bonuses are not worth the downside.

the part about feather cape is only said by people who dont know how resistences work. the feather cape is still the goat. even in ashlands. just drink barley wine. anyone who makes the claim that there is a downside is plain lazy simply. as there simply is no real downside.

also funny fact :
only enemies which actually do fire dmg are :

valk lavablob and warlock.

the middle one is easy to avoid as it explodes once and is done for and the valks fire attack is gjall level of easy to avoid. and warlocks only appear in fortresses to begin with. never outside. lava kills you either way if you stay for longer than 2 seconds no matter what you wear or use.

so that part is actually a terrible take. the 10% reduced stamina is not a good reason to use the other cape over feather fall and higher jumps. beeing able to leap on any ruin or rock is a lifesaver for anything. you never spam your stamina bar empty so these 10% are simply fully unneeded. if you want reduced attack costs use the asksvin set instead. the armor rating is the only real perk of the ashen cape. which is good but not even close to feather fall.

also faders power is garbage for combat. its not even close to bonemass.


as for tc : use best of both worlds if you cannot decide. beeing able to just hurl a bunch of fireballs or roots or pull up the shield when something powerful appears is just gold. been useing this since mistlands and it just slaps.

dont try to be a parry king in ashlands. there is too many enemies that hit way too hard to risk the parry.

bow is as goated as it always was. just bring frost arrows if you plan to use it. forget the regular arrows for this biome. aside 2 enemies everything resists pierce.

[Steve]

Nah, Feather Cape is just lazy play. Its primary use is Mistlands if you don't know how to slide or climb down cliffs. Feather Cape just encourages bad habits that'll get most casuals killed in Ashlands.

That 1.6 off my stam usage for NtT is stupid useful on a pool of 211 stam. That's an extra attack, more wiggle room for dodging and MUCH more for blocking. That's great for my preferred playstyle. I'm a tank. I get into the mix with multiple weapons, not just distance and not just agility tanking.

I DO bring the parry to Ashlands, because I know how to position my enemies and maneuver around them so as to get them to attack the same place as the same time. Stagger as many as you can, get in your free shot, block again to stagger what you missed (or keep going ham if you do your positioning properly, gotta LOVE when that happens!) and repeat until they're all dead.

Fader, of course, is a different story. This isn't a guide for handling him, though. XD

[bacon]

melee with parry shield and spear/blunt still works, as with every previous biome. new dual axes are good as well, but ultimately not necessary. dual axes with vine enchantment are strong against the boss.

lots of solo melee-only on my channel (plug)

and i agree with steve above, but not because its "dangerous" to wear cape. feather cape and mistwalker are anti-play, equivalent of unplugging the enemy's controller. if you know how to fight, you dont need to hug metas like that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUotcuGMrg8

[Fish]

I went into Ashlands with mage at first since every guide or discussion said it was the way to go but honestly it was miserable. You can't ever really take more than 1-2 hits and frankly the dps wasn't even that good although maybe my magic skills were too low (<40).

When I switched to pure melee (+ bow) with maxed carapace gear and a Mistwalker it actually went a lot better. Don't get me wrong, it's still punishing and you can get overwhelmed easily but at least you can take some hits and have the stamina to deal with groups.

One of the big reasons I've heard for using magic is it's AOE ability but I came to the realisation that quantity of enemies isn't really the issue - you can drop into a fortress with hundreds of charred with only melee and tank/hack your way through them. The issue comes when you have multiple stronger enemies (e.g. combo of morgens, valkyries, asksvin) and in those cases higher single-target dps and the ability to tank some hits is way more useful than damaging them all at once.

To be fair to magic, the ice staff does trivialise 1v1 with most Ashland enemies, particularly the morgen and valkyrie which can be more of a pain with melee/ranged. I just don't think that's super valuable overall.

I'm still running the Mistwalker (the slow can be clutch at times) but with Flametal armour after maybe 20-30 hours and haven't felt any desire to go back to mage. Just uh, yea, make sure you take off that feather cape (although I keep mine in my inven incase I need it) and stay stocked up on potions.

[Darkest Mind]

i play melee and have noticed that only ones that don't one shot me is twitcher and marksman 0* and rest straight up kills you, but i play on very hard combat world modifier.
So i think both melee and magic work fine?

[Pobblebonk]

I've tried playing as archer, playing melee and playing as mage.

If you decide to mostly use the bow you should know that you'll need an absurd amount of arrows (frost arrows are best, silver arrows are quite good aswell). The charred and some other mobs are resistant to pierce damage so your bow will do less damage than it usually does.

Being a 100% melee player also has some difficulties as you can quickly get overwhelmed by large hordes of mobs. You could overcome this by using aoe weapons (Himminafl, Demolisher) but still you'll be in some very dangerous situations if you don't have a good way to kill mobs from a distance. Bonemass skill is very useful to deal with some of the 2 star enemies.

Playing as mage is easy mode for the ashlands. I'd use 2 eitr and 1 stamina food. You don't need health foods if you use the staff of protection, just make sure to keep the bubble up at all times. For damage I'd recommend the frost staff and staff of embers (for aoe damage) which you can later exchange for the new staff of the wild which is just insanely good.

I'd recommend going either full mage or a mix of archer and melee.
This recommendation contains spoilers so read only if you don't mind spoilers:
Once you've conquered a fortress and got some of the new gems, upgrade the melee weapon of your choice and your bow with the iolite gems, the chain lightning these weapons can do is extremely good, much better than what you get from using the other gems.

[Nooberix]

I'm using currently double axes with lightning, flamemetal amor, cape with the windrunner perk. 2xhealth, 1xstam food. I'm able to parry most attacks in ashlands but against warriors with stars I sometimes switch to carapace buckler and mistwalker - they have some attacks I'm not able to parry and without bonemass ready and a few enemies around I'd rather play it "safe". Bow for valkyries.

[UncleAcidic]

Originally posted by HangarPilot:

Is it? If so, how do I make it viable without ending up as a "glass cannon"?

I am in the same boat as you. I would always rock clubs full time until mistwalker, but magic seems like the way to go, so I've been learning how to make it work. this is what iv'e learned so far:
-first and foremost, the shield staff is 100% necessary. it's how you overcome being so squishy. It's a big change going from being able to tank hits in heavy armor to being a midrange caster who can only get hit once before death.
-you have to level the magic skills. it's easy to get your skills up to 30 quickly and after that point, you really begin to see good magic really is. I don't plan on going into the ash until my elemental skill is 50+.
-food layout. I landed on 2 Etir and one health food. mages NEED magic, plain and simple. my run and jump skills are 100 and 90 respectfully, so stamina is a non issue for me most of the time as a mage. really, those skills may need to be trained just as much as the magic skill just so you can forego a stam food in favor of another Etir food.
-I thought the summoned skellies were gonna be lame, but that's because I didn't understand that their true purpose is not to kill, but to distract. this is SO much more effective a strategy than I had anticipated. couple this with the fact that you can put a shield bubble on them as well, and you don't have to worry quite so much about taking hits because the mobs just LOVE beating on those skellies. and you can name them!

like many, I felt that having to leave my original play style for a new and very different one was too much of an ask, but im having a blast with it. my big issue however is:

Etir food mats. I don't mind farming at all, but having to re-run mines for royal jelly is a pain, I won't lie. blood clots are more ubiquitous, but jelly can only be found in mines and the queen's citadel. bummer.

edit: i forgot to mention the importance of the dodge roll. learn it, and learn it well if you have not already

[Tomiro]

I tried magic (not extensively though), but couldn't get it to work. Relying on your bubble is a bit of russian roulette, as you have no idea how many hit points it has left, and when it's gone pretty much anything can kill you. Last time I died with my bubble up by a charred warrior. I assume that an arrow or something must have pop it, a few frames before it hit me.

I used mistwalker and shield with the heaviest armor. Then switched to the new 1h sword and alternating between the new axes. Also made use of the bow. Bonemass if getting overwhelmed or dangerous enemies. I don't think that I've ever died with bonemass up. It was quite a struggle early, but I haven't died after killing the boss and getting all the new armor.

[Megatron]

I play mage. 3 eitr foods. Shield is obligatory. Feather cape as Nerevar said. Queen power. Lingering eitr and stamina pots useful. Fireball for Twitchers and Archers. Fracture and frost the warriors. Frost and St. of Wild for Morgens (use skeletons in Putrid holes). Fireball and frost staff for Valkyries. For Askvins frost staff or whatever, just jump over them with feather cape. This is not a tanking build so try avoiding damage. Keep your shield up. Also whoever says that Fireball is useless in Ashlands is a moron.

[Zombits]

staff of fracturing and freeze staff. shield sphere. new bow is good with spirit dmg.

I use every tool, except melee. Way too many mobs to kite. But Demolisher is still badass

[Nerevar]

Originally posted by Steve the Player of Games:

Nah, Feather Cape is just lazy play. Its primary use is Mistlands if you don't know how to slide or climb down cliffs. Feather Cape just encourages bad habits that'll get most casuals killed in Ashlands.

That 1.6 off my stam usage for NtT is stupid useful on a pool of 211 stam. That's an extra attack, more wiggle room for dodging and MUCH more for blocking. That's great for my preferred playstyle. I'm a tank. I get into the mix with multiple weapons, not just distance and not just agility tanking.

I DO bring the parry to Ashlands, because I know how to position my enemies and maneuver around them so as to get them to attack the same place as the same time. Stagger as many as you can, get in your free shot, block again to stagger what you missed (or keep going ham if you do your positioning properly, gotta LOVE when that happens!) and repeat until they're all dead.

Fader, of course, is a different story. This isn't a guide for handling him, though. XD

casuals get killed either way. feather cape is goated as ever now even more with 20% more jump height. ah i see. you still block and dodge in ashlands. so you havent mastered the combat system yet.
explains why you believe you need to dodge and block which is both wasted stamina. then you might indeed need that tiny stamina saved on attacks as you waste extra stamina on things you dont need to do like blocking.

the new jump boost is so silly OP you can charge up a sword special WHILE jumping over an enemy and hit them while thier attack misses^^

i stick with no gravity and glide over 1 more attack per stamina bar given most enemies dont even survive 2 sword specials.

plus i HATE how the new capes look. yikes. the ashen cape is so flat and i hate that neck thingy. the windrun one is not even worth mentioning since you cannot control that bonus at all given how random wind direction goes in this game.

[Nerevar]

Originally posted by bacon:

melee with parry shield and spear/blunt still works, as with every previous biome. new dual axes are good as well, but ultimately not necessary. dual axes with vine enchantment are strong against the boss.

lots of solo melee-only on my channel (plug)

and i agree with steve above, but not because its "dangerous" to wear cape. feather cape and mistwalker are anti-play, equivalent of unplugging the enemy's controller. if you know how to fight, you dont need to hug metas like that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUotcuGMrg8

you still sticking to your spear fetisch even in a biome where pierce is the worst its ever been as a dmg type is some serious stubborness^^