Not A Fan

[Bilverkr]

I don't mind the struggle and the difficulty, but the spawns on Ashlands are a bit absurd. We failed twice getting here, mostly because the sea is FULL of Bonemaws and the sky FULL of Vultures to the point that, after stopping at several spires to repair, we still reached shore with health missing on the boat.

Then, of course, upon landing, are assaulted by 15+ firey dudes... Finally clear out their spawn, only to watch everything we own be destroyed by fire blobs while we kite and clear the stupidly sized horde of mobs... Only to be 1 shot in the back by TWO 2 star skele warriors and a 1 star thrower. Fun fun... And it's like that EVERY TIME I step through the portal we finally got up. I've cleared out EVERY spawn point in a 300m radius and as soon as I step through, I'm guaranteed a horde complete with several 2 stars within moments of being there.

What is this crap? Worse than Mistlands, which was more than aggravating with the terrain+mist+enemies half my height. I want to play a game, not be aggravated by literally overwhelming odds. You make Stamina and Health such a commodity in this game, and then expect a single viking to clear a horde of fire dudes every time they turn around. Makes for very little actual exploration and gathering time, and that makes Ashlands not fun in my opinion.

[Nerevar]

Автор сообщения: Danny_47

Автор сообщения: Bilverkr

Weird twist. I never said the bodies were realistic. You said it was a 'warzone'. It's not. It's a horde-fest. It's a Zombie land. My issue isn't the amount of enemies at FIRST my issue is that once we cleared them and wiped all the spawners in a large radius, they STILL constantly spawn all over the place we've CLEARED of SPAWNERS...

You know what... When your base gets raided by Ashland mobs, it doesn't just spawn enemies, it spawns new spawners, just for that extra oopf. After the raid ends the spawners stay and keep spawning more hordes.

take out a bow. start shooting the spawners till they break. clear the remaining mobs up. you can hit them from so far away that they wont even spawn enemies in to begin with once the raid has ended. works for the ashlands spawners aswell.

and they spawn pretty much only twitchers and warriors on top.

like seriously. the raids are a NON issue. people who cannot handle these shouldnt be going into ashlands without lowering thier difficulty.

[Danny_47]

Автор сообщения: Bilverkr

Автор сообщения: Rhapsody

The frost staves are in our pockets for when we FINALLY get tired of fighting the non-stop idiocy and want to leave. By that point at least one food is low so you eat a stuffed mushroom, poop ice into the group, and walk to the portal.

Yes, exactly. It's not that it's difficult, it's just incredibly tedious. I haven't played since I beat the queen about a year ago. I can't remember the game being like that before. It was a good game to play with a couple of friends, together and apart.

I have played about 50 hours of Ashlands now and I can't see myself doing this for another hour anymore. Neither any of my friends. Maybe a full restart of the game after launch or something. We're shutting down and going to Enshrouded now.

Laters, alligators ;)

[Nerevar]

Автор сообщения: Danny_47

Автор сообщения: Steve the Player of Games

Patience and preparation.

Just like Plains, just like Mistlands. The general gameplan is no different here. The biggest difference is the initial assault, the landing. We didn't have to do that as much with Plains and Mistlands. On many seeds, you could just walk straight to them, ez pz toehold. ...

If I broke off the brake pedal of your car, and the told you "it's 99% the same car as before, no big deal, just drive very slowly, look left and right, head on a swivel..." I wonder what you would say then. But I do have a feeling this kind rhetoric comes from players with 1000+ hours in the game, who most likely played every version on PTB as well.

What is different than before is:
- the amount of enemies that come at you at one time
- respawn rate of those enemies
- enemies come in your direction even out of aggro range (don't lynch me if I'm wrong, but it's the feeling i have)
- all the different types of enemies you get at one time (ranged, melee, flying, ...)
- there were no spawners in Mistlands (Ashlands seems to upgrade or spawn starred enemies a lot more)

It feels and plays like almost a different game now.

So the question remains: what is the driver behind the decision making of the devs?
Slow the player down so it becomes a year long slog until the next biome? Cater to the 1% and forget the rest?

this isnt for the 1%. a friend of mine is a pretty casual player and she is currently soloing the biome. i just told her to go slow and overprepare for the worst. she did. she isnt struggleing that much. she died twice so far. she made the landing just fine the very first time. she has like 300 hours playtime total. i can see players with less than 100 hours struggleing in ashlands alot because by that point youre pretty much still a noob in regards to valheims average play hours of alot of players.

this has nothing to do with skill overall actually. its all about the valheim basics again. just harder than before of course because biome difficulty goes up and not down. if you play it safe you will win. thats just how valheim is. if you wanna take huge risks or dont prepare much you WILL fail and struggle. ashlands is no different form this core concept.

i havent died myself for over 1000 days in my gameworld. yesterday ashlands finally got me. my first death in over 1000 days. lost 5 points in 6 level 100 skills. and i DESERVED that death. in every way. why? it was HUBRIS. my very own hubris. i tought i was safe and nothing would happen while doing this. guess what got me? LAVA. i tought i was standing on solid ground clearing out some ruins near my central fortress outpost to make more room to hunt for 2 star asksvins and see them from farther away. i didnt pay attention for a moment and pickaxed the very grausten piece i was standing on together with the pillar i tryed to actually break. couldnt get out in time. died.

went. eat reserve food and wine and lingering mead from the boxes. portalled back in and ran to my grave. i was angry. very angry. but 10 minutes later i realized : this death could have been avoided if i would have been more careful. it was not a bug. it was not the game beeing bad. it was my very own mistake that killed me.

on the other hand it feels oddly satisfying to get run and jump exp again after such a long time. the loss in swords and elemental magic was pain tough. bow is gonna be back in no time either way cause its bow.

deaths are self caused. all of them that arent the result of BUGS or glitches are self caused. for one or multiple reasons. once you realize this you stop dying for the most part. and ashlands is no different.

too many players try to play this game way to carelessly and think too much in a straight line or dont use thier own creativity to overcome obstacles. yet valheim is a game that heavyly encourages this type of play and rewards it.

[Danny_47]

Автор сообщения: Nerevar

Автор сообщения: Danny_47

You know what... When your base gets raided by Ashland mobs, it doesn't just spawn enemies, it spawns new spawners, just for that extra oopf. After the raid ends the spawners stay and keep spawning more hordes.

take out a bow. start shooting the spawners till they break. clear the remaining mobs up. you can hit them from so far away that they wont even spawn enemies in to begin with once the raid has ended. works for the ashlands spawners aswell.

and they spawn pretty much only twitchers and warriors on top.

like seriously. the raids are a NON issue. people who cannot handle these shouldnt be going into ashlands without lowering thier difficulty.

We reached a point in our relationship where I think we should take a break. I'm a little tired of you not willing to understand what I'm trying to communicate. Many tried to tell you as well, but you're too much self-absorbed to see: IT'S NOT THE DIFFICULTY, IT'S THE TEDIUM OF CURRENT GAMEPLAY.

We should really start play other game for now. Let's maybe try again in a few years.

[Nerevar]

Автор сообщения: Bilverkr

Автор сообщения: Beertruck

It is like an over spawning bug from any other game, but it was left in as a feature lol. I am playing modded with an OP build, and the stuff I ran into entering Ashland's would not have been survivable in vanilla, it was nuts. Valheim dev's are really leaning into the dark souls theme. I wish they would get back to their roots and realize what made the game loved in the first place.

Like... I'm pretty good at the combat... I've got top carapace gear and a maxed Krom, my buddy is full magic with all the maxed out gear and spells holding a carapace shield and Mistweaver (or whatever that sword is), our third dude is geared up and melee as well and we ALL carry a frost staff for the times we're out of stam, but we can barely walk about without spending most of it kiting and clearing a horde.

here is a important lesson : ANYONE who claims to be "GOOD" at this games combat and then failing to land at ashlands is NOT actually "good" at this games combat. you just believe you are but the reality is that the actual good players do not die like that at all. and they dont struggle like that either. so that claim is probaly overconfidence. guess what gets you killed in valheim? overconfidence. happens to everyone.

[Steve]

Автор сообщения: Bilverkr

Автор сообщения: Steve the Player of Games

Yeah, and I've hauled actual dead bodies, and they don't go poof and skin themselves either. Come on, man, you're better than that.

Weird twist. I never said the bodies were realistic. You said it was a 'warzone'. It's not. It's a horde-fest. It's a Zombie land. My issue isn't the amount of enemies at FIRST my issue is that once we cleared them and wiped all the spawners in a large radius, they STILL constantly spawn all over the place we've CLEARED of SPAWNERS...

There's invisible spawners that always spawn more mobs. That's always been the way in every biome. That's why we don't run out of deer or boar or lox or whatever. More keep spawning in.

I'm guessing that, in your opinion, there's too many spawning in. That's to simulate the chaos of combat on a map that's much smaller than your average contested area. What you're supposed to do is the WWI approach. You fight for every last inch of land you need there, and you secure TF out of it.

The biggest problem with the approach you're positing is clearing a LARGE area. That is what you do when you want to build a main base in a biome you intend to subjugate.

You are not in the Ashlands to subjugate it. You are there to get what you need, and GTFO. This is the part in your strategy that needs desperate adjustment. We are not there to conquer. We are there to loot and scoot.

That's why there's so many chonky build pieces in the grausten set. You cover your 16x16 area QUICKLY. You build FAST. You arrive PREPARED. You build it first with black marble, then gradually replace the pieces with grausten (and if you're feeling fancy, re-use the black marble as exterior casing for the grausten).

Attempting to impose one's personal will on a new area can often require a lot of skill to cover serious gaps in plans that may arise. That's why I didn't try to just bomb my ship at full sail through tall spires and rough seas. I backed in, and ran into just two birds on the way in. I had to actually sail around a bit after securing the toehold to find my first bonemaws. Everything I needed to start was in the hold. I dropped the stonecutter, quick-dropped the portalhaus, put down the little boy portal, and GOT THE HELL OUT.

I then reloaded, and went back at full power, and found first molten cores and grausten. Then GOT THE HELL OUT.

I would suggest these critical adjustments for your next attempt, should you make it. It's quite worth the preparation and effort.

[LordMoneyNew]

Are you playing on a higher difficulty?
I am playing solo on Normal. I sailed to the Ashlands with little issue. Yeah got attacked by bonemaws and vultures. Used the Drauger fang with wood arrows to take out the maws, and hammered the vultures.
Built a temp base just before land in the rocks to have my breach into the battle zone.
When actually going to land I found it also painfully annoying how many enemies there were and constantly were. Found out it was due to a monument close by. Destroyed it, zone was far more easy, enemies still coming but it felt very similar to the black forest, swamp, and plains. Only the Mistlands and the Mountains were quiet zones to first get into.

I built my beachhead base and built a stone wall around it taking up the space of the shield generator so that there is a nice buffer zone preventing enemies getting too close so I can build and move around in my new base in peace.

The moment I go out of the walls yes there are always enemies, every biome has that, I feel like the lower spawns in the Mistlands made this new biome feel even harder. But if you play a new character and go to the Black Forest, Swamp, or Plains, there are swarms of enemies constantly attacking.

You can extend your safety net by doing the fire or work bench placement to stop enemy spawns, making your direct surroundings safer.

Other things to know is that all mobs in the Ashlands have the furthest alert radius of any other creature. Meaning mining, building, and running/jumping, will alert them from further away than you are used to.
With getting many two stars, the Monuments tend to spawn a two star warrior that are ungodly to fight to start. But they can also spawn at night. Also enemies can spawn in Lave, so instead of what you'd be used to where water doesn't allow mobs to spawn, lava does.

Sorry for your luck, but playing solo I have not been having these kinds of issues. To me it feels very similar to how other biomes have been, just harder and more kinds of enemies.
My only complaint is mining heatmetal, because all of China knows where you are and comes for you while you are trying to focus on getting as much metal as possible.
One trick, is if you mine a bit to the point it gets to the stage it is going to sink, then quickly run out of the render range where you can no longer see it. Once you come back it will reset to no longer sinking, but what you mined will be the same, so you can finish mining the entire thing without rushing exactly.
Also remember to have a portal for long distance travel as your inventory will fill.

[Bilverkr]

Автор сообщения: Steve the Player of Games

Автор сообщения: Danny_47

I'm not sure what kind of decision making lead to this point and what the solution is supposed to be:
Are we meant to re-spec? Are we meant to find groups to play with? Just grind and chip away? Cheese the game? (don't say "just get gud", because we are discussing game design decisions here, not memes and trolls)

Patience and preparation.

If I "Took a few steps and looked around" I'd be swarmed. Period. Again, I have a portal, I have a 'foothold', but that doesn't change the absurd amount of enemies following me at every moment.

What I'm not going to do is follow any of your step by step nonsense because I'm already way past all of that. No one is attempting to build a huge base, but if I clear all of the spawners for a good distance. If I FIGHT AND SECURE that beach, I shouldn't have enemies spawning under my feet non-stop of 2 stars.

You can continue to act like everyone needs a guide to gain a foothold, and I assure you you're wrong. I'm sorry you've chosen to assume that no one knows how to play the game except you, but that doesn't change the spawn rate being nothing more than annoying at the moment.

Let me say this, in MISTLANDS, if I cleared out a Dvergr tower, the Dvergr didn't come back. If I cleaned an area of Seekers, I maybe had to worry about patrols on occasion but I didn't have to literally run the entire time I was in the area because they NEVER STOP.

If I go in the black forest, and I clear out the Grey Dwarves, I have a bit of time to do some work.

So no, the difficulty and gameplay mechanics aren't the issue. Spawns are.

[Nerevar]

Автор сообщения: Bilverkr

Автор сообщения: Steve the Player of Games

Patience and preparation.

Just like Plains, just like Mistlands. The general gameplan is no different here. The biggest difference is the initial assault, the landing. We didn't have to do that as much with Plains and Mistlands. On many seeds, you could just walk straight to them, ez pz toehold.

Ashlands, that toehold has to be earned. Secure that FIRST. You need enough room for a big boy portal. You're gonna start out by sailing in a little boy portal PLUS enough for a very small base. Your focus is gonna be storage, and a stonecutter. I would recommend connecting in from a high-security Mistlands base where at least 10 marble stone stacks have been gathered.

Once your big boy portal is up and secured, start SLOWLY working your way across the landscape. Patience. Bring a standard kit -- fire wine, maxed Mistlands gear, weapons of your choosing. They need to be maxed if you wanna feel the most comfortable. The more we skimp on gear, the more we have to have skill filling the gaps and that's gonna be hard for a lot of players in the first 20 hours of a new biome.

Go slow. Head on a swivel. Take a few steps, take a look around you and above you, and do it again. Then move a few more steps. Be patient, be prepared, and accept the fact that you're gonna die a few times. The skill loss is gonna suck.

But you'll get this, same as you did the last two "final" biomes. And then we'll get ready to do it all over again for Deep North.

If I "Took a few steps and looked around" I'd be swarmed. Period. Again, I have a portal, I have a 'foothold', but that doesn't change the absurd amount of enemies following me at every moment.

and you arent forced to fight them all. only the flyers must be taken care off at all costs. the rest not so much.

do you also kill every single greydwarf and troll when you first go to the black forest? i doubt it.

[Bilverkr]

Автор сообщения: Nerevar

Автор сообщения: Bilverkr

If I "Took a few steps and looked around" I'd be swarmed. Period. Again, I have a portal, I have a 'foothold', but that doesn't change the absurd amount of enemies following me at every moment.

and you arent forced to fight them all. only the flyers must be taken care off at all costs. the rest not so much.

do you also kill every single greydwarf and troll when you first go to the black forest? i doubt it.

AAANNNDD We're back to "No, but I don't care to spend every minute running."

[Erh-Rei]

Skill issue. I'm playing in normal difficult and dont have any serious problem with first landing and build first portal outpost. Destroy all near spawners and spam campfire in terrain. I solo cleared first 4 fortress and have full gear

[Steve]

Автор сообщения: Bilverkr

Автор сообщения: Steve the Player of Games

Patience and preparation.

If I "Took a few steps and looked around" I'd be swarmed. Period. Again, I have a portal, I have a 'foothold', but that doesn't change the absurd amount of enemies following me at every moment.

What I'm not going to do is follow any of your step by step nonsense because I'm already way past all of that. No one is attempting to build a huge base, but if I clear all of the spawners for a good distance. If I FIGHT AND SECURE that beach, I shouldn't have enemies spawning under my feet non-stop of 2 stars.

You can continue to

Aaaaand that's where I'm gonna stop. Sorry it wasn't for you, man.

If you'll excuse me -- or even if you won't -- Im'ma get back to my game. It's day 69, Fader is down, gonna get into the finer details of one of my favorite updates so far.

[Steve]

Автор сообщения: Erh-Rei

Skill issue. I'm playing in normal difficult and dont have any serious problem with first landing and build first portal outpost. Destroy all near spawners and spam campfire in terrain. I solo cleared first 4 fortress and have full gear

I actually had to sail around a bit after securing the beachhead and look for some bonemaw, what about you?

[6h0$t942]

It was quite the horde. I hadnt killed the queen yet so i found an outer pillar when the boat damage started stacking up and then i feather jumped from pillar to pillar.

One idea that comes to mind if you wanted to try a maximum strugglebus is your friends could feather jump on pillars and build crafting tables ahead of your ship, if you really wanted to bring a normal ship through there,

[Soma]

Автор сообщения: Erh-Rei

Skill issue. I'm playing in normal difficult and dont have any serious problem with first landing and build first portal outpost. Destroy all near spawners and spam campfire in terrain. I solo cleared first 4 fortress and have full gear

Like many players, the op does not want to use exploits/cheats like spawn proofing. Can you do it without the campfires?