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[Phannttonn]

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[A Damp Squid]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Brakxel:

Everything wants you dead. Even the trees try to kill you.
Except deer. They just want to be left alone.

They should probably learn to shush it then. Insane frequency on them (thankfully a mod for it)

[Dace]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από warrenchmobile:

"

Why on hell my own ballista shoot me?

Because it is an inanimate not sentient object. Why does your campfires, bonfires, or hearths burn you if step on them? Why do snares, traps, and landmines operate when you step on them.

A better question would be: Why on hell would I build a ballista to cover a certain area and then go traipsing through that area?

You would have a point, except you didn't spent two seconds thinking about how Wards exist and are non-sentient structures that can distinguish between friend and foe via simple signature. So your point doesn't even make sense in lore.

[Jaasrg]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Dace:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από warrenchmobile:

"

Why on hell my own ballista shoot me?

Because it is an inanimate not sentient object. Why does your campfires, bonfires, or hearths burn you if step on them? Why do snares, traps, and landmines operate when you step on them.

A better question would be: Why on hell would I build a ballista to cover a certain area and then go traipsing through that area?

You would have a point, except you didn't spent two seconds thinking about how Wards exist and are non-sentient structures that can distinguish between friend and foe via simple signature. So your point doesn't even make sense in lore.

There is no point to begin with. No ifs, buts, or Andy's about it.
Campfire, bonfire, hearth, snare, trap or landmines don't actively aim and move to activate on you, ballista does.
Because real life comparisons are so wanted here, he could have used motion detected lights as an example.
Good thing we don't equip those with guns, eh?

[lorifel]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Jaasrg:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Dace:

You would have a point, except you didn't spent two seconds thinking about how Wards exist and are non-sentient structures that can distinguish between friend and foe via simple signature. So your point doesn't even make sense in lore.

There is no point to begin with. No ifs, buts, or Andy's about it.
Campfire, bonfire, hearth, snare, trap or landmines don't actively aim and move to activate on you, ballista does.
Because real life comparisons are so wanted here, he could have used motion detected lights as an example.
Good thing we don't equip those with guns, eh?

We don't equip those with guns but even with humans as sensors friendly fire happens in RL. A lot. Good luck thinking your Ballista should be more sentient than any human trooper =)

[Dace]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Jaasrg:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Dace:

You would have a point, except you didn't spent two seconds thinking about how Wards exist and are non-sentient structures that can distinguish between friend and foe via simple signature. So your point doesn't even make sense in lore.

There is no point to begin with. No ifs, buts, or Andy's about it.
Campfire, bonfire, hearth, snare, trap or landmines don't actively aim and move to activate on you, ballista does.
Because real life comparisons are so wanted here, he could have used motion detected lights as an example.
Good thing we don't equip those with guns, eh?

Again, wards can read a persons signature by magic. The Ballista is Magic. there is literally no reason to think we could not apply that to the ballista. Your trying to use technology vs literal magic. It is not an apt comparison. Campfire? Not Magic. Bonfire? Not Magic, Snare trap? Not magic. Land Mine? Not magic. Valheim Ballista? Magic. So again, your point is entirely irrelevant. I am not saying there are not arguments against making them target players, but your argument is not based in any valid logic. The thing the magical ballista would most be similar to, is in fact, the aforementioned ward. Since we know wards can in fact distinguish between different entities there is no logical reason not to apply that magic to the ballista as well. So again, your argument does not apply as well as you think it does. You are comparing a magical contraption to mundane traps. not the same thing. And before you even suggest it is not magical, it is literally created using a magical Eitr infused spring and magical wood and you can literally see the glowing powered wheels that operate it. It's magical.

[Jaasrg]

Now that I read my post again I can see why you'd think I was in favor of ballista as is, my apologies.

[Skcarkden]

Don't forget personal chest, it doesn't even require a ward, you build a personal chest it's locked to ONLY the creator of it. That's either extremely powerful magic, or for the absurd people that foolishly want to argue 'ballista isn't a sentient being, it doens't make sense for it to tell friend or foe" I would say it's extremely advanced tech, so advanced it can fit in a tiny box, that the same super advanced tech can easily be placed in a ballista allowing it to recognise it's creator

And the only.... ONLY way you can even attempt to try to beat this argument is by seriously saying the personal chest must clearly have a fingerprint scanner that you can't use on a ballista at a distance so it'll still shoot you" But i'll have a response ready for that.

[lorifel]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Skcarkden:

And the only.... ONLY way you can even attempt to try to beat this argument is by seriously saying the personal chest must clearly have a fingerprint scanner that you can't use on a ballista at a distance so it'll still shoot you" But i'll have a response ready for that.

I can beat your argument. Secretly the deepest desire of each Ballista is to kill you for all your crimes and atrocities against the world of Valheim. You destroy natural resources, kill animals and torture the giants. (Don't forget that Ballista is made from Yggdrasil wood).

However to conceal its main purpose the Ballista has to fire at other moving objects as well... waiting for the hour of revenge! :D

[Skcarkden]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από lorifel:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Skcarkden:

And the only.... ONLY way you can even attempt to try to beat this argument is by seriously saying the personal chest must clearly have a fingerprint scanner that you can't use on a ballista at a distance so it'll still shoot you" But i'll have a response ready for that.

I can beat your argument. Secretly the deepest desire of each Ballista is to kill you for all your crimes and atrocities against the world of Valheim. You destroy natural resources, kill animals and torture the giants. (Don't forget that Ballista is made from Yggdrasil wood).

However to conceal its main purpose the Ballista has to fire at other moving objects as well... waiting for the hour of revenge! :D

That still means it can differentiate between creator/friend/foe ;)

So it's not actually an argument for it being unable to do so lol

[lorifel]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Skcarkden:

So it's not actually an argument for it being unable to do so lol

However it does explain the thought behind the game design ;)

[pipo.p]

This thread...

Either ballistae are siege/static weapons, that require a player to operate them.
Or they are traps that auto-attack and harm targets in range, like any AoE or forward sector land mine.
Or they are magical contraptions that are allowed to target only hostile creatures (not players nor neutral ones); this is a design choice, also conditionning the materials needed to build them, and their cost and durability/life duration.

As a trap, they could have:

• a very limited attack angular range, so that it's easier for a player to navigate between their attack directions, but then, ballistae would be only efficient at defending against attack vectors (or in forbidden corridors);
  
• a on/off switch to disable their watch mode, but then, the player would have to prime them again each time there's no need to walk through the defended zone anymore;
  
• the same chance of hitting a player as any same size enemy, if this is not the case already (in case it looks like the player is hit more often than other creatures at the same location);

But they are either a manual weapon, an automated trap, or a magical contraption/summon.

[Skcarkden]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από lorifel:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Skcarkden:

So it's not actually an argument for it being unable to do so lol

However it does explain the thought behind the game design ;)

True but that was never in question, the devs made it this way because they decided to. but for the people who try to make excuses for it citing realism or lore, they truly have no successful argument because realism doesn't work and lore already has features that support the capacity for what people are saying. Those people, truly have no argument that they can win.

[Dace]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Skcarkden:

Don't forget personal chest, it doesn't even require a ward, you build a personal chest it's locked to ONLY the creator of it. That's either extremely powerful magic, or for the absurd people that foolishly want to argue 'ballista isn't a sentient being, it doens't make sense for it to tell friend or foe" I would say it's extremely advanced tech, so advanced it can fit in a tiny box, that the same super advanced tech can easily be placed in a ballista allowing it to recognise it's creator

And the only.... ONLY way you can even attempt to try to beat this argument is by seriously saying the personal chest must clearly have a fingerprint scanner that you can't use on a ballista at a distance so it'll still shoot you" But i'll have a response ready for that.

I honestly just assumed the personal chest was a locked chest and only the creator had the key/code and there was nothing magical about it. Though I do agree 100% that the ballista is magic and that the magical technology to have magical objects distinguish between friend and foe is 100% proven to exist in game. I used the Wards for my argument about it instead. Since no argument can be made that wards are not magical while you could make generalized guesses at how personal chests work and that they could realistically not be magical.

[AkimboWasabiMenthol]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από DredSilent:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Rhapsody:

I'd rather not have Valheim become tower defense game. It's silly but it works. Other features of ballista like the inaccuracy are bigger issues IMO, but they're already addressed in the PT branch.

To be fair, there's really not much of a need for them at all. Not much really comes at your base, and you can always just dig a moat around your base or make it up in a non destructible tree.

its for pvp, but youre all allergic to real pvp.

[Skcarkden]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Dace:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Skcarkden:

Don't forget personal chest, it doesn't even require a ward, you build a personal chest it's locked to ONLY the creator of it. That's either extremely powerful magic, or for the absurd people that foolishly want to argue 'ballista isn't a sentient being, it doens't make sense for it to tell friend or foe" I would say it's extremely advanced tech, so advanced it can fit in a tiny box, that the same super advanced tech can easily be placed in a ballista allowing it to recognise it's creator

And the only.... ONLY way you can even attempt to try to beat this argument is by seriously saying the personal chest must clearly have a fingerprint scanner that you can't use on a ballista at a distance so it'll still shoot you" But i'll have a response ready for that.

I honestly just assumed the personal chest was a locked chest and only the creator had the key/code and there was nothing magical about it. Though I do agree 100% that the ballista is magic and that the magical technology to have magical objects distinguish between friend and foe is 100% proven to exist in game. I used the Wards for my argument about it instead. Since no argument can be made that wards are not magical while you could make generalized guesses at how personal chests work and that they could realistically not be magical.

The argument about a key can also be applied to ballista for the sake of fighting fire with fire as well. "we can carry a magical resonance stone attuned to a ballista so it doesn't attack the carrier" only the stone doesn't actually exist it's a lore-explanation for why it may or may not work a certain way much akin to personal chest key/code not actually existing just a story explanation to it's purpose.

I get what you're saying, i just wish these people who make their arguments got it too.