Paid Mods?

[Azoun]

Originally posted by Azoun:
I've been researching mods to use in a new play through.

Several popular mods appear to have tiers of items that can only be un-locked by paying the mod developers. This type of practice is not approved by other games that support mods such as Betheseda games, and EA games with the Sims 4. Timed exclusives are sometimes approved by developers, as long as the content is eventually released to the public for free. What is the stance on this by Iron Gate Studio?

Valheim current examples:
https://valheim.thunderstore.io/package/Therzie/Warfare/
https://www.nexusmods.com/valheim/mods/1741

Edit 1:
https://www.valheimgame.com/eula/

Rule#12
Commercialising the content-additional rule. If you want to make money off your content it must comply with all the rules above and both this rule 12 and also rule 13. You are only entitled to monetise your content through advertising or partner programs that video sharing platforms offer or if you collect voluntary contributions as long as you follow rule 13.

Rule#13
Commercialising the content-additional rule. Although you can use our content as part of your own creative commercial project, viewers should not have to pay a fee for the sole purpose of accessing the content of our games and you cannot sell our content.

Edit 2:
Odinship has released the Extra content for free at this time. But please donate to the mod author if you like the mod.
https://www.nexusmods.com/valheim/mods/2099

[Krieger]

Publicado originalmente por Azoun:

Well look at the author of the Warfare mod. It is interesting to me as it adds items and make the Deep North and Ashlands more finished. I'm sure it will take Irongate a long time to catch up to Therzie.

But Valheim is $20 game, yet the costs to access Therazie's mod alone is relatively high.
https://www.patreon.com/Therzie

$9CDN for access to single player, or $11/month for server access, or $14.50/month for local and small server access.

I think this mod author maybe pushing his luck without Irongate giving permission to sell this mod product.

And who is to say that Irongate doesn't deserve a share of the profits?

It would be nice if Irongate could hire some of these talented modders to speed up development in the base game.

Lol damn, it's like he's making unauthorised DLC lol

Surely they gotta draw the line somewhere.

[avatar.zero]

Publicado originalmente por CPCEradan:

Publicado originalmente por DredSilent:

All I'm going to say is this: https://steamcommunity.com/workshop/aboutpaidcontent

Steam is going that direction, so not sure what the complaint here is.

Didn't that last only about two weeks, in 2015?

Not even a week, and that was when it was limited to just Skyrim mods on Workshop.

[Azoun]

That was the Skyrim and Fallout 4 Creation club?

[John]

Publicado originalmente por Sythalin:

2 questions.

1. Have you ever bought a game that people spent their time creating for your enjoyment?
   
2. Have you ever voluntarily donated to mod authors that spent their time creating for your enjoyment?

If you answered "yes" to the first question and "no" to the second, then you have no right to complain about mod authors gating their work behind payment.

They are mods they create for an existing product, a product which isn't their IP. If IGS doesn't protect their IP by taking legal action to such things they might actually lose their IP to public domain as they aren't protecting it. Why do you think companies are so protective over their IP's, if they let it slide even once, it gives way to others asking money as well and court will just decide, oh look you let it slide once so who cares right?

Donating mod creators to make content is one thing, paying to unlock specific things in mods is another. The first is paying them for working, the other is paying for mods, there lies the difference.

[jf6482]

Publicado originalmente por Azoun:

Its not exactly my choice because Iron Gate Studio could come down hard on paid mods potentially at any time. So I would like some clarity on the issue from Iron Gate before I pay the developers.

For Odinship, there isn't too much content locked away by a paywall. But the Warfare mod appears to have much more content locked away by the paywall.

I am concerned that this could become expensive if this practice from mod developers becomes very widespread. And my mod purchase feels questionable until Irongate makes a clear policy. For example; If Irongate suddenly comes down hard on the paid mod developer, would the mod also suddenly stop being updated and stop working?

The entitlement is just oozing from this poster.

You do not have to pay for the mods and you are not entitled to somebody's work for free. You do not have to use the mods to enjoy the game. You are not forced to use the mods that are looking to paid for their labor.

Again you are not entitled to someone's labor just because you feel it.

[Azoun]

Yes I think that donating to a mod author, optionally, is far more ethical than being forced to pay. There are some in-between ideas that are a little more ethical, such as timed exclusives, or donate any amount you choose to donate.

[Krieger]

Publicado originalmente por jf6482:

Publicado originalmente por Azoun:

Its not exactly my choice because Iron Gate Studio could come down hard on paid mods potentially at any time. So I would like some clarity on the issue from Iron Gate before I pay the developers.

For Odinship, there isn't too much content locked away by a paywall. But the Warfare mod appears to have much more content locked away by the paywall.

I am concerned that this could become expensive if this practice from mod developers becomes very widespread. And my mod purchase feels questionable until Irongate makes a clear policy. For example; If Irongate suddenly comes down hard on the paid mod developer, would the mod also suddenly stop being updated and stop working?

The entitlement is just oozing from this poster.

You do not have to pay for the mods and you are not entitled to somebody's work for free. You do not have to use the mods to enjoy the game. You are not forced to use the mods that are looking to paid for their labor.

Again you are not entitled to someone's labor just because you feel it.

If they let a subscription service use their engine and their assets and allow them to charge ppl to use it, not donate but charge, they have a problem. If this is allowed i'm a just go code in factions on islands and charge a sub to use the pvp, win win for me.
they do all the work, i profit!

[vanflyhightanzek]

well since ik the devs dont care about it who wants what ill get some mods made an setup for donations. sounds like some fun to make money from this idea. so tell me what you want folks.

[The Big Brzezinski]

For the sake of argument, let's say that all these monetization methods are hunky-dory. Understand that they're still selling you something that depends on a product they do not own and have no control over. You may buy some mod pack one day and find the next day's patch utterly wrecks it. The modders can't do anything because they're basically an end user like you. IG isn't going to do anything because it's not their responsibility. In fact, they would probably be well within their EULA-granted rights to prohibit end users from engaging in this sort of business at all.

The patronage model only works because you're promised effort, not results. The modder will do the best they can what they get, and nobody has any expectations. Once specific tit-for-tat promises start appearing, however, that's where the trouble starts.

So be wary of anybody asking a fee instead of a tip. They're selling you a bus ride over a bridge that has not yet been built.

[Hiryukaen]

Selling mods sounds like copyright infringement, but I'm not a lawyer.
Unless the game goes open source/public domain, the Developer or sometimes the Publisher will hold the copyright, using someone else's copyright material is illegal.
Mods use Valheim to operate.

[DredSilent]

Publicado originalmente por Hiryukaen:

Publicado originalmente por DredSilent:

All I'm going to say is this: https://steamcommunity.com/workshop/aboutpaidcontent

Steam is going that direction, so not sure what the complaint here is.

Are they resurrecting this? That ate dirt in 2015 and was completely canceled as I recall.

It was never removed. It never really went anywhere, but it shows their intended path. If they can get modders on steam and paid mods, it means Valve can make more $$.

[Wafflesaurus Supreme]

The publisher is not in any danger of losing intellectual property rights to Valheim to public domain or otherwise. They could take action against emulated versions of official servers, which do not exist, or for pirating or someone otherwise using the product for unauthorized financial gain (which has to reduce official sales, at least theoretically, in order to claim damages in court). As an example, there is the original EverQuest. The publisher eventually made a deal with a popular emulation community, Project1999, and provided official servers and support for classic servers. This turned out to be a huge hit with the players.

Publishers typically only take action against mods which interfere with the enjoyment of the playerbase; Valheim's mods are made for single player or co-op gameplay, not anything with a wider economy or competitive gameplay that could be affected. The publisher would, of course, be within their rights to change the terms of service to disallow the use of any mods with their product, but this would decimate the player base.

TLDR: Paid mods have been around for a long time. People have been earning a living producing third-party content for games such as Second Life for a long time. Mod authors are entitled to seek monetary gain for their work as long as they do not re-publish the original game files without authorization from the publisher. It cannot be proved that sales of the game upon which mods are built are negatively impacted. Customers are never "forced to pay" for unofficial content; they retain control of their personal finances and associated purchasing decisions.

[Azoun]

The entitlement is just oozing from this poster.

You do not have to pay for the mods and you are not entitled to somebody's work for free. You do not have to use the mods to enjoy the game. You are not forced to use the mods that are looking to paid for their labor.

Again you are not entitled to someone's labor just because you feel it.

The mod author is really only entitled to sell mods if approved by Irongate, the developer.

I would rather support a mod developer that leaves an option to donate, rather than a demand. That way, I think the mod developer would likely avoid wrath from Irongate.

Paying people in demand is not always the best option, because that is a business. The mod author would need business insurance and the like.

[Wafflesaurus Supreme]

Publicado originalmente por Azoun:

The mod author is really only entitled to sell mods if approved by Irongate, the developer.

Unless stating an opinion, this is incorrect. Would encourage everyone to take a course in business law.

[william_es]

I don't see the point of this whole issue. You seem to be arguing the "legality" of something that isn't under your control at all. Even if you could come to a consensus, you have no way of enforcing it. The only people that could takes steps to stop this would be the developers or steam. It's not under your control if a mod maker puts in paywalls.

Things that ARE under your control:

1. Don't use their mod at all. Vote with your feet.

2. Start a petition to boycott the mod developer, and convince others to stop even downloading it too.

3. If you don't want to unlock the extra modded content... then... don't. Just use it for the unpaid content... or is the actual source of this whole thread, the idea that there's stuff in this mod you cannot have unless you pay. You want it. You don't want to pay. Poof, thread about how it isn't right that mod makers do this.