Mistlands review

[oybl606]

After diving into Mistlands with an old character, getting my ass totally kicked at the beginning, I decided to start a new world and a new character, to see, if it is really such an impossible difficulty jump. So I have two worlds and two characters so I can compare the progression.

Meadows and the first boss was easy, fighting Greydwarves in black forest was tedious at first but also became easy. Until I encountered my first Troll and almost died from two hits. Upgrading armor and weapons, Trolls became manageable, until I died five times just entering the swamp.

Now I crafted my first iron armor and shield, and manage to melee kill my first Abomination. I still get annihilated by starred Draugr, so I just avoid the body piles in a big circle.

So what I can see is the difficulty jumps are the same. You get killed by trolls, get chased trough half the island by Elite Draugr, don't stand a chance against two star Draugr archer in the crypts. If you encounter an impossible enemy, you run away.
Crafting progression is also consistent: iron armor at the start is almost the same as upgraded bronze armor. The forge gets new upgrades after you enter the swamp, so two biomes.

I also play with the old world, and personally Mistlands biome is my favourite. I like the fog and the claustrophobic feeling it generates (especially when hearing the Gjall in
vicinity). I agree it is hard at the start, but comparable with older biomes.

Coastal areas are usually without fog, I've found enough mines to collect enough black cores to craft Black forge and Galdr table (you actually need just 5 cores to craft everything).

Multiple seekers can be defeated by kiting and blocking. For starred seekers you have Bonemass power.

Also you don't have to go to an area with a Gjall, you don't have to clear all chambers of an Infested mine. If there is a 2 star seeker, just leave it be.

When you are in a dense fog, just listen to the sounds. It's the same as entering the Mountains fresh from the Swamp, if you just run around like an idiot, you'll get totally wrecked by wolves (same as seekers). And then try to fight a Golem. It is the same as Soldier in the Mistlands.

Also the mist moves. You can see it on the map which areas that are clear and explore them first.

I think that one year waiting for the update is the cause for all the hate I see. We became so good at fighting in old biomes, that we are all now in shock, when we get our ass kicked again :)

There are bugs/flaws in the game, which I am sure the devs are going to fix (sloped combat being the most obvious), but after 500+ hours of gameplay I still think this is one of the greatest game ever produced.

And I personally very much like the Starship troopers/Alien theme :)

[Rhapsody]

Originally posted by Hiryukaen:

The people who presume the devs only added a strong flying monster to counter the extreme cheese of terrain walls/moats is some serious copium. "Things were changed to specifically target the way I was playing the game and trivialize it. Waaah"

Originally posted by Hiryukaen:

Swamp gave us Wraiths, which were a slight annoyance in swamps, mostly because they'd come at you from out of view. Other than that they weren't much of a threat, they don't attack fast and have low hp and are kind enough to attack at melee range. Drauger archers are typically more of a threat.

lol that makes me wonder if there should be Wraith events, but that'd probably warrant a new type of mob or using the Phantom instead since it'd be way easy chain farm.

[william_es]

Originally posted by Dornam:

I really love the aesthetic and the ideas behind the biome, but the combination of the mist, topography, and hard hitting enemies in terrain that you can't properly fight back on make it a supremely frustrating experience. I think they have good ideas behind the biome, but the execution was half baked.

I totally agree with this. Terrain that you can't fight back on properly is most of the issue. Slipping on inclines will suck down half your stamina instantly. I don't mind hard enemies, but not being to fight back against them wasn't much fun.

I think part of the problem is we're obviously missing something.

Flying ships.

Hear me out.

They added gjalls. They obviously look like they have some kind of internal gasbags that allow them to float. They could add a rare drop that we could farm as the main ingredient to make flying ships.

A "hot air" style balloon at first. Starter flying ship, it's slow, delicate, and sort of hard to steer. Allow it to drop an anchor to stop moving. The anchor is what you climb up and down to get back in. You could tether to the tops of peaks in the mistlands, then explore downwards

The absolute endgame would be a flying longship.

Hey, we're dead vikings in the afterlife. We are in a spirit realm, and we are basically ghosts.

Flying ships really aren't that wacky when you remember that.

[Flux]

Originally posted by oybl606:

I've had two seeker events, which I survived with no real damage to the base. Compare that to the two trolls who just smashed trough my stake wall. Even with a trench, they can damage your buildings by throwing rocks.

Gjall event only happens in Mistlands. So just don't build bases in there, until we get some more defense options. And I agree, buildings should have a lot more resistance to gjall/seeker attacks.

How do you know Gjall Events only happen in Mistlands?

Originally posted by Glaston:

Originally posted by Flux:

I think they introduced the Gjall because they got so salty about Trench/ raised dirt defenses.

Are you saying that the developers don't like the way we're playing the game? So they're making it even more difficult because of that?
I'm not doubting you. It just seems ridiculous to create an open world game with such a narrow focus of how people are expected to play. To the point where things are being changed or added to force players to play how developers want them to play?
Just make the game linear if you need that much control over how it's played.
That changes my view of the developers AND the game.

I'm just taking the piss honestly but it wouldn't surprise me. However if what Oybl606 is saying about Gjall raids only happening in the Mistland is true, we don't have to worry so much. I raise the parameter of my bases, dig a trench, and run out into the open pasture when events happen so if it's just seekers it won't be so bad.

It just sort of sucks cuz we will never be able to have a sweet mountaintop base in the Mistlands due to the Gjall. Sorry but I'm not even going to bother with how destructive they are.

Originally posted by Hiryukaen:

The people who presume the devs only added a strong flying monster to counter the extreme cheese of terrain walls/moats is some serious copium. "Things were changed to specifically target the way I was playing the game and trivialize it. Waaah"
I wonder if it would be the same if they stuck with the arachnid infested theme they had originally. I was kinda hoping they'd add monsters that could climb over walls, since bugs can climb walls. Not sure if it has an validity, but rumor is that got changed due to arachnophobia feedback due to the spiderwebs covering the launch version of mistlands.

Idk how making an assumption relates to copium honestly but ok. As far as them adapting the game to match what the player base came up with, I'd be fine with this if the structures weren't made of paper and could take more than a couple hits but in the current state the "cheese" is a must if you care about your buildings.

That's a shame if they caved to people that are scared of Spiders. Ffs face your fears, a virtual spider is the best way to do it because it literally can't hurt you.

Originally posted by Hiryukaen:

The game needs more enemy variation to make biomes seem different. It would be boring if everything was ground based with busted pathing that is easily exploitable.

Meadows and Black Forrest have no flying enemies. Has enemies with ranged attacks although the distance is very short.

Swamp gave us Wraiths, which were a slight annoyance in swamps, mostly because they'd come at you from out of view. Other than that they weren't much of a threat, they don't attack fast and have low hp and are kind enough to attack at melee range. Drauger archers are typically more of a threat.

Mountains gave us Drakes. First enemy to attack and stay outside of melee range, typically. Still not that difficult, fairly slow attack speed, not much hp.
And bats, but bats have no hp and low damage. Wolf packs are more threatening.

Plains gave us the immense annoyance, Deathsqitos. They were a huge pain because of the high damage they could deal with 1 hit and have spawn points that are typically near other monsters so you can be flanked. But the fact they have like a whopping 10hp, makes them near trivial. Again, the basic melee enemies of the biome are more threatening in most circumstances.

All fine, but if they are going to introduce such destructive mob after having everything else be minimal threat to structures they need to give us better base defense. Sorry but a couple traps, and new stake wall that is easily broken and a turret that has awful accuracy and will fire at you is not enough. They should have allowed us to enlist the dverger to help with base defense.

Originally posted by Hiryukaen:

As for base cheesing. The best cheese is not spend too much time at a furnished base.
If you're not there raids can't happen. I haven't tested anything, but I don't think the "base" trigger for raids has been changed either. So it should also possible to have things far enough apart it won't trigger a raid.

Granted the distance of 40m between placements that add towards the trigger is pretty far and in many cases impractical, but if you segment the places you spend a lot of time at you can easily prevent a lot of raids from happening when you're under prepared. Which also allows you to not have to attempt at heavily fortifying everything.

Like tending to a farm where agriculture and husbandry eats up a lot of time for some. While you don't have to be near crops/trees for them to grow, if you want new breeding to happen you'll have to be near by for a while. Cant lose your farm to a raid if a raid can't trigger because the only placement is a portal.
It's slightly harder to get away with mass smelting, but at least you can pop in load them up and pop out and collect the mats a bit later instead of just watching them smelt, which is the worst option for avoiding a raid. You can also sleep to instant complete the process.

My main base is on a cliff/ steep hill in a meadow. Cliff for 2 sides, 1 side half cliff half meadow and 1 side just all open meadow where I farm trees. Perfect to run out in face the mobs in an open pasture with small hills. LIke I said before, if the Gjall only spawn in the Mistlands and raids won't happen outside of it I'm not as worried. I've had a few seeker raids and they're not that bad.

[Konstantin]

Originally posted by TK:

Originally posted by Konstantin:

If you only comparing monster power it may be so. What makes Mistlands a good-looking pile of bad game design is overall composition,

Hard hitting fat monsters -ok
Difficult to navigate landscape -ok
lowered visibility - ok
all of the above simultaneously - fail

I'm playing 2-player. we finished the mistlands in a weekend. Are people just trying to play with like, Cooked Deer Meat and 1 Bread, and Silver armor or something lol

Get fully geared, if you see anything with stars you pop Bonemass buff. The only thing that's remotely difficult is Gjall + other enemies at the same time. Gjall are *somewhat* challenging if you're on rough terrain.

Mist is negated by pre-Mistlands gear that makes it only *very slightly* annoying, sometimes.

I mean do people just want a new Meadows biome? just start a new map or download mods if you don't want any challenge whatsoever.

400+ hours. You srsly thinking i don`t know how to gear for new biome?
Or you just don`t understand difference between "difficult but fun" and "interesting-looking but tedious, annoying and inconvinient"?

[mc-laine]

[/quote]

Nope and nope.
If you only comparing monster power it may be so. What makes Mistlands a good-looking pile of bad game design is overall composition,

Hard hitting fat monsters -ok
Difficult to navigate landscape -ok
lowered visibility - ok
all of the above simultaneously - fail


Konstantin...true!

I hate the mist, i always enjoyed the atmosphere of valheim. In Mistlands you see 4 meters in range.

Plus another few questionable things...

Devensive Balista shoots player, too. wtf?
Arbaleste is nice, but why reload every time after backpacking it?
Creatures tears black marble in pieces with almost no effort
Creatures attacking mushroom farms from players and wisp torches?!
Why the new gear and weapons just upgrade two levels?
whisp light sucks...make it upgradeable!
No GIrdle in the Mistlands, because whisplight...
And the new public test patch...new carpet Bonus removed? Whats the matter of a few minutes more rested bonus?
Why the new aeytr refinery damages nearby building parts?

Played 3 days, died 3 times...it´s challening but feels unbalanced.

[Syrian Engineer]

Originally posted by oybl606:

If there is a 2 star seeker, just leave it be.

I am sorry but are you actually defending that there are virtually unkillable enemies in the game?

[Philthy]

you should watch some speedruns. it will show you how easy this game can be.

[Flux]

Originally posted by mc-laine:

Arbaleste is nice, but why reload every time after backpacking it?

I hate this so much and hope they change it to remember we loaded it

"buT thE bAlAnCe" If i want to spend the time to make enough crossbows to have a whole bar of them locked and ready to go, let me. Sounds like a blast.

Now that I say that, it makes more sense, but surely they could find a solution if this is their reason for making us reload each time we equip it. While I'd love to have the ability to have a cross bow Gatling gun (essentially) the argument can be valid since the damn thing is like a 50 cal sniper rifle. "Allow only 1 loaded" or something should suffice.

Originally posted by mc-laine:

Creatures tears black marble in pieces with almost no effort

honestly all building pieces and objects across the board need a boost in durability.

[Philthy]

Originally posted by Syrian Engineer:

Originally posted by oybl606:

If there is a 2 star seeker, just leave it be.

I am sorry but are you actually defending that there are virtually unkillable enemies in the game?

not unkillable
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pyOcHQz1js

[Sleepy]

People whine too much, and I hope the devs ignore most of it, particularly the baby mode players who really just want to play with dev mode on.

I think there are issues (particularly with stamina regen and food) and QOL stuff that needs to be addressed, but the difficulty isn't a problem. If anything they should make it harder, but more nuanced.

[lorddrakenwode]

I don't know about anyone else. I specifically started doing permadeath runs to "rediscover" the early and mid game in the weeks leading up to the Mistlands public test. Definitely noticed, after spending so long at the top end of the available content, that the overconfidence that had worked its way into my playstyle was deadly when starting out, so I shifted gears back, and started playing a little more conservatively.

The difficulty was there, of course, but it was a difficulty with which one could reasonably cope. A swarm of Greydwarves, with a shaman or two, can easily overcome a player foolish enough to be caught mining at night. However, they can also be escaped, and whittled down. Trolls are deadly, but announce themselves pretty clearly and aren't really all that scary.

The swamp is a bigger step up, but methodical play again makes all the difference. Poison resistance for dealing with leeches and blobs, and the draugr are easy to sneak up on or sneak past, and not all that scary when you get used to them. The abominations are tricky, but right weapon type makes them survivable.

The mountains weren't all that big a deal for me; just don't go there at night and get swarmed by wolves.

Deathsquitoes are a bit of a surprise, but a decent shield or good timing deals with them. The lox just require patience and a lot of arrows. The real nasties on the plains are swarms of fulings stirred up from trying to Rambo a village, or the odd surprise two-star. Even so, one can feasibly escape them by running, and with a little skill, they can be overcome. Even if a player overplays his hand and gets killed, his portal will still be there, and if he waits a bit, everyone will lose interest and go home, and he can zip through and probably recover his corpse, give or take dealing with those pesky deathsquitoes.

Granted, I'd already accrued a good deal of stick skill from playing, even correcting that out, I was able to react and adjust to the new biomes fairly quickly, and take them from challenging to rewarding and fun pretty quickly.

I still haven't figured out how to get out of frustration with the Mistlands, and for me, it centers around a few key points.

- A big part of it is just that the stakes are so much higher, in that skill drain for death is so exponentially more expensive when entering the Mistlands than any previous biome. Accepting the inevitability of death is a lot more frustrating when it comes along with the knowledge that you're unavoidably going to lose several hours' worth of skills progress every time.
- I don't mind the mist as it is, but there are a few aspects of it that I think lead to needless time-wasting. Setting up the player with a carry buff, and then making them choose between that and a mist-lifting item is less about interesting strategic decision-making, and more about frustrating constraint. I'd accept it, but for the fact that enemies rapidly and deliberately wipe out any lamps the player puts up. Either make lamps passive, or allow multiple equipped accessories. Both would not be a bad idea, and would not compromise the feel of the place, while improving accessibility and enjoyability.
- The difficulty spike is just vastly greater than any previous biome. Even consulting various guides, and fully understanding creature weak points, the degree of stick skill and precision necessary to navigate the Mistlands before gearing up is a whole other level, and even then often still can end in virtually unavoidable death. One slight slip, and you're dead, when you're tangling with multiple seekers with a star among them, even with Bonemass power sometimes. Even sneaking around carefully, it's frustrating how often mixed groups of enemies can be encountered, and how difficult it is to either fight them, or run and escape.
- To elaborate, seekers in particular are fast, persistent, and can demolish a portal very quickly, and will seemingly do so deliberately. I'm not so sure it's a good game design notion to allow these various Mistlands creatures to pursue a player through an entire naked Eikthyr sprint, and then hang around the portal and demolish it even if the player does make their escape.
- A less immediately frustrating issue that arose for me, but perhaps even more problematic long-term, is item bloat. I like the idea of expanding one's home. Having multiple new production facilities doesn't bother me, and building a growing settlement is nice in its own way. However, the inventory management system, particularly from a storage perspective, means that the more layers of items that get added, the exponentially more time a player will have to invest in juggling, sorting, collecting and moving items around, and keeping different facilities fed. This may be fun time for some people, and I found it reasonably so up through the plains, but this extra level I really felt the boredom set in at times, and I can see how it is only likely to increase as further biomes are added.

Certainly having the greater difficulty available is fine, for those players who want it, but I'm afraid that confining the game to only that level of difficulty will greatly decrease its reach, and confine it to the small number of hardcore players who are willing to invest the kind of time necessary and who have the skills necessary to deal with it. I think a more granular and self-selectable player experience will reach more people while not undermining the overall feel of the game unduly, and a few little changes could really help the Mistlands shine.

[vandalism]

Originally posted by Flux:

What doesnt scale or compare is the potential structure damage the new mobs can cause to settlements. A single Gjall raid could literally destroy your entire settlement with a few shots, same with a lone seeker soldier. Even a troll isn't as destructive as that.

Im enjoying the new patch but if a Gjall raid happens when I'm at a main base I'm devcommanding it away and it'll be the first time I ever did such a thing, I dont care. If they're not going to release all the tools so we can properly equip ourselves to swiftly take care of the challenges put forth by the new threats I'm not going to care using the command.

At over 700 hours myself I really wish they'd change how the food works. The stat degrade is way too steep. You basically lose 10 minutes off a food with how bad the decline is. HP/ STAM/ MANA should be the full amount, for the full amount of time, or at the very least degrade to the same degree it does now starting at 3 minutes or something.

Yeah the raids sound terrible. I haven't gotten to mistlands but I would love an on/off switch for raids. They are just annoying. Let me control when I fight. If I want a raid, let me trigger it. Make a bell or something to beckon, like the mechanitor raids in rimworld. Bases are too hard to make to lose to a gjall nuclear strike.

Also, I use mods and I modded out food buff decay. Like you say, when they implement these terrible decisions I feel nothing simply removing them.

[DeMasked]

I don't think I died to Seekers, Soldiers or Ticks in Mistlands for my single player run through.

I sorta treated the biome like I would Mountain and maybe Swamp when it comes to making sure I have some reserve of stamina available just in case. Never even used a shield, just Frostner, Iron Sledge and Drauger Bow. Also had Silver Knife when running just in case as it can make short work of the odd hare or tick that you find.

That being said I still dislike the Mist mechanic being too heavy and the jagged terrain. Mountain you just have to get to the top and usually you'll get flat or hilly surfaces to deal with wolves plus the visibility is fine unless you are dealing with a blizzard or maybe fog.

Swamp you have wet status but the terrain is pretty easy to deal with and should you need to fjord a body of water you just need to make sure you have the stamina and enemies that can't catch up to you easily - that or just use a hoe to make paths. Campfires can be made in the crypts which negates the negative stamina regen from being wet.

Only thing I died to in Mistlands was Dverger starred mages that fire red homing wisps at you and maybe one time to a Gjall. Threat from seekers is negated with frostner and it can also easily deal with them via the special attack whereas soldier you can either parry or let them do the 2 stomp attack giving you time to smack it's butt.

edit: I also had 1 raid before killing the boss. 1 seeker got past my wall because it saw me peering down at it when on top of the wall and beyond that I just had some minor structural damage due to the soldier aoe attack. Could've waited it out but I decided to fight them outside.

[Flux]

Originally posted by vandalism:

Yeah the raids sound terrible. I haven't gotten to mistlands but I would love an on/off switch for raids. They are just annoying. Let me control when I fight. If I want a raid, let me trigger it. Make a bell or something to beckon, like the mechanitor raids in rimworld. Bases are too hard to make to lose to a gjall nuclear strike.

Also, I use mods and I modded out food buff decay. Like you say, when they implement these terrible decisions I feel nothing simply removing them.

enabling the console, hitting f5, type devcommands, then when it happens type stopevent then killall.

Food buff decay mod sounds nice, might have to check it out because it's slowly becoming a pet peeve. I spend so much time gathering for food only for it to basically become useless with 10 minutes remaining and forcing me to re-up it. What's the point of making it last 25-30 min if like a 3rd of it is barely better than using it in the first place.

[OctoberSky]

I'd appreciate someone explaining how many Viking lore masters were entomologists? These creatures seem inspired by contact with cockroaches, longhorn beetles and termite queens. Difficulty aside, it makes me want to clean the house after an hour and maybe that isn't a bad thing.