Teleport restrictions are pointless and not having the intended effect

[Fizzle]

There is nothing more frustrating than being rewarded with a grind. After sailing across an ocean, braving the swamps, and venturing into a crypt for iron I get rewarded with... another two hour bronze grind. The teleport restrictions do not encourage you to make another base. Literally all you need is the stupid forge and smelter. And since you can transport all raw materials except for the dumb metals, you can bring over literally every single thing you need except for the dumb stuff you have to spend four hours mining. This is not encouraging me to make more than one base. It's encouraging me to make a portal network connected to a bunch of isolated forges. It feels like you guys balanced some of these features assuming that everyone would be playing on a 10 man server where there is no resource scarcity. Why would one to three people want to spend the time and effort building an entire new base complete with every single upgrade in more than one place when there is not a single gameplay mechanic encouraging them to do so? Teleportation prevents the need to update your spawn point and allows you to transport 90% of raw materials.

Currently, the game rewards players who've made it to the swamp by forcing them to grind out a 2nd forge + smelter. That is not fun gameplay progression. That's making me do the same thing I just finished doing all over again just so I can smelt some dumb ore. And I'm sure the exact same thing is going to happen once I progress out of iron, furthering my lack of motivation to bother with this.

[Irot Noot]

Big Willy Style původně napsal:

Irot Noot původně napsal:

The defense for it is trivializing travel makes a world feel small. If I have to get on a boat to get to timbuktu but can teleport back and forth then on without a care in the world, it just trivialized that entire path of travel. If I travel all the way across the world and set up a teleporter, under your scheme, thats the last time I make that trip via boat.. BORING.. This way if I find precious ores, I have to use the boat to haul things back and forth. You know, like Vikings did, lots and lots of boat travel. The world will continue to feel enormous and daunting to explore, not a trivial sequence of magic portals that hide all the beauty of this world from me after I do it once.

So remove teleports? Travel is trivial. It's like you don't even comprehend your own argument. You can literally transport 95% of materials in the game. This mechanic just makes you either move your forge setup or make a new one. That's it lol. This is just tedious, it's not adding anything and you sound like a pretentious fool saying what you just said.

Why you gotta be nasty? Cant have a normal discussion without name calling now? Too bad kid, I and many others, don't agree with you. Period. You calling me names will certainly not change that.

[Kaziklu78]

The reason this game is called forgiving is because you get (iirc) all your mats back when you deconstruct a base. (other gamers don't let you do that)

When I played Conan Exiles I had a starter base, Then a Base in the Desert that I generally spent 100-200 hours building and upgrading. I then had three thrall bases in various biome, and a Northern Based or a Eastern Base which would be 200-400 hours of work.

This game obviously isn't going to translate that way so you have to take a Norse approach.

So if you are going on a voyage you bring things you might not be able to get at the new location with you. (Like the supplies for a Kiln) You then set up a temporary base there. Either by bringing the mats or by cutting the trees there.

So much of this game encourages you to honestly thinking like a 8-10th century Norseman. However we need to think like Leif Erikson and Floki Vilgerdarson not Ragnar Lothbrok.

I understand the pain though.

Most of these people would have had a main base of operation. They would then go explore during a season. They would make a camp. Leif Erikson's people would go to modern Labrador for logging trips. They'd go for a period make a camp and have everything they needed there for the season and then come back after.

Survival games are generally very grindy. The Portals are there to save time but they can be used to make the game too easy I suspect. Rather than removing them they eliminated the ability to take ore with you.

There are ways to cheese it. However the exploration and the grind for a lot of people is the appeal.

[Irot Noot]

Big Willy Style původně napsal:

Irot Noot původně napsal:

The defense for it is trivializing travel makes a world feel small. If I have to get on a boat to get to timbuktu but can teleport back and forth then on without a care in the world, it just trivialized that entire path of travel. If I travel all the way across the world and set up a teleporter, under your scheme, thats the last time I make that trip via boat.. BORING.. This way if I find precious ores, I have to use the boat to haul things back and forth. You know, like Vikings did, lots and lots of boat travel. The world will continue to feel enormous and daunting to explore, not a trivial sequence of magic portals that hide all the beauty of this world from me after I do it once.

So remove teleports? Travel is trivial. It's like you don't even comprehend your own argument. You can literally transport 95% of materials in the game. This mechanic just makes you either move your forge setup or make a new one. That's it lol. This is just tedious, it's not adding anything and you sound like a pretentious fool saying what you just said.

And no, the solution is NOT to remove teleporters, but to continue with the restriction in place, which makes total sense in an exploration game that actually wants you to, like, you know, explore.. not walk thru endless magical tunnels everywhere.

[Fizzle]

Irot Noot původně napsal:

Big Willy Style původně napsal:

So remove teleports? Travel is trivial. It's like you don't even comprehend your own argument. You can literally transport 95% of materials in the game. This mechanic just makes you either move your forge setup or make a new one. That's it lol. This is just tedious, it's not adding anything and you sound like a pretentious fool saying what you just said.

Why you gotta be nasty? Cant have a normal discussion without name calling now? Too bad kid, I and many others, don't agree with you. Period. You calling me names will certainly not change that.

As far as nastiness goes, calling someone a fool is pretty tame.

[Fizzle]

Kaziklu78 původně napsal:

The reason this game is called forgiving is because you get (iirc) all your mats back when you deconstruct a base. (other gamers don't let you do that)

When I played Conan Exiles I had a starter base, Then a Base in the Desert that I generally spent 100-200 hours building and upgrading. I then had three thrall bases in various biome, and a Northern Based or a Eastern Base which would be 200-400 hours of work.

This game obviously isn't going to translate that way so you have to take a Norse approach.

So if you are going on a voyage you bring things you might not be able to get at the new location with you. (Like the supplies for a Kiln) You then set up a temporary base there. Either by bringing the mats or by cutting the trees there.

So much of this game encourages you to honestly thinking like a 8-10th century Norseman. However we need to think like Leif Erikson and Floki Vilgerdarson not Ragnar Lothbrok.

I understand the pain though.

Most of these people would have had a main base of operation. They would then go explore during a season. They would make a camp. Leif Erikson's people would go to modern Labrador for logging trips. They'd go for a period make a camp and have everything they needed there for the season and then come back after.

Survival games are generally very grindy. The Portals are there to save time but they can be used to make the game too easy I suspect. Rather than removing them they eliminated the ability to take ore with you.

There are ways to cheese it. However the exploration and the grind for a lot of people is the appeal.

The result is just tedious tho. The ore restrictions dont translate well. Either remove all teleporting and encourage more basing, or remove the restrictions and encourage smaller basing with a main hub. The current system is just stuck on the fence.

[Irot Noot]

Big Willy Style původně napsal:

Irot Noot původně napsal:

Why you gotta be nasty? Cant have a normal discussion without name calling now? Too bad kid, I and many others, don't agree with you. Period. You calling me names will certainly not change that.

As far as nastiness goes, calling someone a fool is pretty tame.

Why do you feel its appropriate to call me names at all?

[FadeXF]

Kaziklu78 původně napsal:

The reason this game is called forgiving is because you get (iirc) all your mats back when you deconstruct a base. (other gamers don't let you do that)

When I played Conan Exiles I had a starter base, Then a Base in the Desert that I generally spent 100-200 hours building and upgrading. I then had three thrall bases in various biome, and a Northern Based or a Eastern Base which would be 200-400 hours of work.

This game obviously isn't going to translate that way so you have to take a Norse approach.

So if you are going on a voyage you bring things you might not be able to get at the new location with you. (Like the supplies for a Kiln) You then set up a temporary base there. Either by bringing the mats or by cutting the trees there.

So much of this game encourages you to honestly thinking like a 8-10th century Norseman. However we need to think like Leif Erikson and Floki Vilgerdarson not Ragnar Lothbrok.

I understand the pain though.

Most of these people would have had a main base of operation. They would then go explorer during a season. They would make a camp. Leif Erikson's people would go to modern Labrador for logging trips. They'd go for a period make a came and have everything they needed there for the season and then come back after.

Survival games are generally very grindy. The Portals are there to save time but they can be used to make the game too easy I suspect. Rather than removing them they eliminated the ability to take ore with you.

There are ways to cheese it. However the exploration and the grind for a lot of people is the appeal.

Honestly? I wish I had seen this approach or just done it this way from the start instead of how I naturally handle base building in games.

I clearly am just different to what the game maybe realistically should be played.

Like I just said: I wanted to have this grande, beautiful, massive, amazing base... this 1 point of outwards exploration... bringing materials back to that 1 single point and working the entire world outwards from there.

I don't know if I can play it differently to be honest... that would be COMPLETELY UNNATURAL to my nature in survival games and in general.

To treat each camp location as a literal garbage toss away place? To just break down existing gear and moving on to the next spot with zero ownership on any "space" in the game what so ever? Yikes... I dunno... seems not very appealing to me to play that way... just a little POS leanto,

But hell man... that will save me SO MUCH TIME. Just like: 10 wood for the first workbench - then like 20 wood max for the "house" (read 2 sticks in the ground and 2 "floor" for roof) structures... bahaha

Man... that's so depressing

[Grailer]

Removing portals altogether would probably be better or making them end game only requiring some sort of resource to activate each use .

It kinda sucks to spend a considerable amount of time making small outposts that are useless once the area is cleared which doesn't take long . However my solution is that I find a broken down tower and revamp it . I can portal in wood and stone to quickly upgrade it .

[Irot Noot]

FadeXF původně napsal:

Kaziklu78 původně napsal:

The reason this game is called forgiving is because you get (iirc) all your mats back when you deconstruct a base. (other gamers don't let you do that)

When I played Conan Exiles I had a starter base, Then a Base in the Desert that I generally spent 100-200 hours building and upgrading. I then had three thrall bases in various biome, and a Northern Based or a Eastern Base which would be 200-400 hours of work.

This game obviously isn't going to translate that way so you have to take a Norse approach.

So if you are going on a voyage you bring things you might not be able to get at the new location with you. (Like the supplies for a Kiln) You then set up a temporary base there. Either by bringing the mats or by cutting the trees there.

So much of this game encourages you to honestly thinking like a 8-10th century Norseman. However we need to think like Leif Erikson and Floki Vilgerdarson not Ragnar Lothbrok.

I understand the pain though.

Most of these people would have had a main base of operation. They would then go explorer during a season. They would make a camp. Leif Erikson's people would go to modern Labrador for logging trips. They'd go for a period make a came and have everything they needed there for the season and then come back after.

Survival games are generally very grindy. The Portals are there to save time but they can be used to make the game too easy I suspect. Rather than removing them they eliminated the ability to take ore with you.

There are ways to cheese it. However the exploration and the grind for a lot of people is the appeal.

Honestly? I wish I had seen this approach or just done it this way from the start instead of how I naturally handle base building in games.

I clearly am just different to what the game maybe realistically should be played.

Like I just said: I wanted to have this grande, beautiful, massive, amazing base... this 1 point of outwards exploration... bringing materials back to that 1 single point and working the entire world outwards from there.

I don't know if I can play it differently to be honest... that would be COMPLETELY UNNATURAL to my nature in survival games and in general.

To treat each camp location as a literal garbage toss away place? To just break down existing gear and moving on to the next spot with zero ownership on any "space" in the game what so ever? Yikes... I dunno... seems not very appealing to me to play that way... just a little POS leanto,

But hell man... that will save me SO MUCH TIME. Just like: 10 wood for the first workbench - then like 20 wood max for the "house" (read 2 sticks in the ground and 2 "floor" for roof) structures... bahaha

Man... that's so depressing

Keep your big grand mega base, you don't have to abandon that idea.. That's one of the main reasons as I see it for the teleporters in the first place.

[Lord Lurk]

Irot Noot původně napsal:

Keep your big grand mega base, you don't have to abandon that idea.. That's one of the main reasons as I see it for the teleporters in the first place.

He's pretty much dead set on not wanting anything but portals being able to function while carrying ore/metal. The concept of a mining outpost is something he loathes for some reason, and somehow it's too tedious to load up a boat full of metal to take back to his base.

Already talked this to death with him before.

[Fizzle]

Irot Noot původně napsal:

Big Willy Style původně napsal:

As far as nastiness goes, calling someone a fool is pretty tame.

Why do you feel its appropriate to call me names at all?

Because you're not even addressing the topic at hand in favor of some vague grandstanding about the game. The teleport restrictions don't really make sense. The teleport itself needs to go, or the restrictions do. The current system just forces you to cheese or do weird things that don't really make sense or aren't fun to work around it.

[Bardiche]

Irot Noot původně napsal:

Big Willy Style původně napsal:

So remove teleports? Travel is trivial. It's like you don't even comprehend your own argument. You can literally transport 95% of materials in the game. This mechanic just makes you either move your forge setup or make a new one. That's it lol. This is just tedious, it's not adding anything and you sound like a pretentious fool saying what you just said.

And no, the solution is NOT to remove teleporters, but to continue with the restriction in place, which makes total sense in an exploration game that actually wants you to, like, you know, explore.. not walk thru endless magical tunnels everywhere.

I don't get how having teleporter restrictions actually promotes exploration:

1. you have to explore in the first place to find a good place to put your teleporters, so the exploration is actually enabling the use of teleporters

2. when you are loaded with ore you are generally not looking to explore but to travel back to base asap so you go back the same way you used to reach the ore vein; i.e. no further exploration is happening

it seems like teleporter restrictions actually is just a way to pad out the length of the grind loop by making the player run back and forth between their current base and the ore vein, its not making the player "explore" anything

it seems to me the solution to promote exploration is to have many small ore nodes littered around the map so you have to explore the a very large region of the map to collect sufficient ore; this would ACTUALLY PROMOTE exploration

[FadeXF]

Irot Noot původně napsal:

Keep your big grand mega base, you don't have to abandon that idea.. That's one of the main reasons as I see it for the teleporters in the first place.

I'm not trying to be melodramatic here... just that for me personally: I WANTED to play the game this way... but the only possible way for me to enjoy the game this way is to cheese the ore/metal back to base. If that is removed: then that means it was a true exploit and not welcome in the game by the devs. And since I personally will NEVER play this game by mining and sailing my ore 45 mins EACH WAY making like 20 trips per metal age? YEAH - hard pass for me....

That means the ONLY WAY for me to enjoy the game without that above scenario is to make little throw away POS 2 stick "homes" in the dirt... and decontruct those every time.

The only permanent structure I can see being a garden... and 1 portal to it.

It actually makes me sad to think that may be the way for me forward. (If the dev team blocks my ore/metal method.)

=(

[Fizzle]

Grailer původně napsal:

Removing portals altogether would probably be better or making them end game only requiring some sort of resource to activate each use .

It kinda sucks to spend a considerable amount of time making small outposts that are useless once the area is cleared which doesn't take long . However my solution is that I find a broken down tower and revamp it . I can portal in wood and stone to quickly upgrade it .

Yeah I mean it just seems pointless. I can transport cores and all sorts of other things but not ore. Why? I can basically just tear down my base and take it with me but I can't take some metal through a portal?

[stretch]

Find a swamp biome with lots of crypts (Near Bonemass is best I think) and then find the nearest point at the base of a huge mountain that is beside a dark forest with creeks or a shoreline and a plains biome really handy. The iron is the hard part to find in any quantity really since swamps often have no crypts but a good location with easy access to the other biomes and their metals is easy to find.

My main fortress has all of these.

Also note you can deconstruct your ship so you can establish a portal at somewhere like Bonemass for the iron and carry ship parts there through a portal. Assemble your ship and fill it with iron and only ever have to sail back once with many hundreds of iron. No need to sail both ways repeatedly. It only needs nails and not metal bars although I never thought of this at the time I should have done it so it's not tested by me. If I notice it needs something that cannot be ported I will edit this but I think it's viable.