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hunter Nov 3, 2024 @ 8:47pm
Mossy bait locked behind iron now?
We get the fishing pole at the trader but cant make black forest bait now util the swamps? Mossy bait should at least be available in cauldron to make. Or perhaps just have the trader sell all the bait and the buying requirement will be a trophy + gold.
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Originally posted by stmpunk:
Originally posted by Kursor1:
Ugh, you're right too, just saw that thanks to you. I do not approve. If theyre doing that they should re-enable just cooking the whole thing on a cooking rack as well at the basic 1 fish = 1 cooked fish ratio so theyre useful in the meantime till you reach the swamps.
Every time I raise the devs' questionable design decisions I get a lot of TTing from ppl in general. Truth is that they are purposefully gating everything into segmented "eras" while increasing the grind requirements. The idea is to forbid players from doing anything efficient or that diverts from their streamlined & railed "vision". Survival games with forced linear progression are simply awful, and this game's the most linear I've played in years.

There's a old but not-THAT-old trick that indie devs have been pursuing to virtually inflate the gameplay time data of their games (there are several reasons for doing it, one of the major ones' to give potential investor meetings some powerpoint big inflated charts to either open capital or sell the company). I have no clue if Coffee's pursuing that, but to me it's likely the intent since the first EA release was to certainly inflate the playtime (could be something as innocent as pushing the game up within Steam's built-in algo...)

Anyway, I agree that it's a move that I perceive as detrimental to our gameplay experience in general, obviously, but I can't expect any better from them nor act surprised when this sort of patching happens because I have detected this "fake inflate" pattern on them ever since the game was first released, years before I even considered buying it, as such I do not consider them good developers, never did, and probably never will (to me they are mediocre) - what sticks to me is the premise + potential of the game (which under my perspective has very slim chances of reaching even half of it within it's current direction), but it can be modded and that can make the game actually really good...

Fast forward to what I'd consider the ideal design for this game, and I'd be investing far more into it's combat system to better reflect player skill (learning curve) in detriment of sheer grind (time investment) making almost all gear viable for all biomes while keeping the elemental caveats involved for each (maybe even layering even more climatic buffs & debuffs for each biome to increase the benefits of time investment / grinding).
I'd also slap in benefits for advancing the game with more creative criteria instead of "just boss", potentially opening up basic crafting (human known materials) to new players if they know how to evolve under a higher duress demand without limiting resources to specific biomes or dungeons turning those into "easier&optimal" options... I'd also litter the seed RNG with at least twice the types of dungeons with each offering a different variety of mats & enemies, and by doing so inserting possible metal mines to all biomes with appropriate challenges, bring up a bit of life into the game by giving at least one more sentient race that can spawn entire small towns with their own traders, etc...

After laying this far superior foundation to the game I'd start addressing adding more functional details to everything while also focusing on bringing the seed generation into a more logical & believable geography (which includes addressing water height, proper rivers & streams with waterfalls and such) - lastly I'd add a auto-patching for terraforming to properly update minimap, map & terrain default height after a certain period of time has passed in-game, basically a "regenerative landscape watcher" - if heights are 2+ up or 2+ below it's original placement, it updates all maps while also regenerating terraformed terrain with lower changes - I'd probably hook the scanner to workbenches to keep it intact where there is, while adding a overtime slope effect to all raised terrain that isn't.

Anyway, all of the small defects this game has can be fixed, and it's core design could be way better while also being far more "realistic" / believable... As is, it's sort of ludicrous, can be overlooked but when something can be better and i know it, it just bothers me constantly.
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Showing 1-15 of 17 comments
Faceplant Nov 3, 2024 @ 9:32pm 
Even if you could make/buy the bait, you can't process fish without iron anymore.
#1
Kursor1 Nov 3, 2024 @ 10:05pm 
Ugh, you're right too, just saw that thanks to you. I do not approve. If theyre doing that they should re-enable just cooking the whole thing on a cooking rack as well at the basic 1 fish = 1 cooked fish ratio so theyre useful in the meantime till you reach the swamps.
#2
Buwaro Elexion Nov 3, 2024 @ 10:06pm 
If i was a modder/dev i'd make new bronze age work bench dedicated to fish
#3
hunter Nov 4, 2024 @ 12:50pm 
just have to live with the 'fish doesnt like that bait ' repeately all throughout black forest i guess. funnnn thank you devs...
#4
Exodite-Dragon (Banned) Nov 4, 2024 @ 1:35pm 
Yeah it's a really bass-ackwards decision to first implement fishing progression the way it was, then shunt all fish-related crafting to the Iron Age.
#5
Hoja Lateralus Nov 4, 2024 @ 6:08pm 
Originally posted by Exodite-Dragon:
a really bass-ackwards decision
Oh snapper!
#6
brianloveslisa Nov 4, 2024 @ 7:27pm 
"Early Access" You know, the thing where the game can change, systems can change, they can do HUGE overhauls, get rid of items, change when you get them. ETC. Why people get surprised when the game changes a goal post during early access is beyond me.
#7
blprice61 Nov 4, 2024 @ 9:16pm 
Originally posted by Hoja Lateralus:
Originally posted by Exodite-Dragon:
a really bass-ackwards decision
Oh snapper!

I think we should all whale about it.
#8
Lurksmore Nov 4, 2024 @ 10:29pm 
fall down and flounder
#9
brianloveslisa Nov 4, 2024 @ 10:38pm 
You guys are on a Roe.
#10
Long Dead Fingers Nov 7, 2024 @ 8:46am 
There have always been parts of the game that don't make a great deal of sense lore-wise which bother me to varying degrees, but requiring iron now to begin cooking any fish ranks as one of the more peculiar design choices. Even our paleolithic ancestors were able to catch and cook fish, long before they learned to forge copper or bronze tools. If there is a good "gamey" sort of reason for the change, I guess I'm failing to appreciate it. It's immersion breaking and has no basis in history.

Still loving the game but wish they'd do another fishing revamp.
#11
Long Dead Fingers Nov 7, 2024 @ 9:08am 
Now I'm confused and wondering if my memory is faulty. When I stopped playing months ago I was not very interested in fishing, nor familiar with how the progression worked, especially of the higher tier prepared meals. But I definitely recall picking up plenty of fish from the shore after storms, and seem to remember being able to cook it earlier than what I am seeing now in my new run.
#12
Sotanaht Nov 7, 2024 @ 1:07pm 
Originally posted by Long Dead Fingers:
Now I'm confused and wondering if my memory is faulty. When I stopped playing months ago I was not very interested in fishing, nor familiar with how the progression worked, especially of the higher tier prepared meals. But I definitely recall picking up plenty of fish from the shore after storms, and seem to remember being able to cook it earlier than what I am seeing now in my new run.
Nothing wrong. You used to be able to prepare "raw fish" at the Cauldron. The last patch moved all uncooked food to the Food Preparation Table, because that makes more sense from a realism perspective and because the cauldron had too much stuff in one menu. The problem is that the Food Preparation Table itself takes Iron, while the Cauldron only required Tin.

The simple solution would be to just make the Food Prep table not require iron. Honestly for what you can do with it, I don't even think it needs metal at all. But as far as fish it's a really, really low priority thing. You can't really do anything meaningful with fish until the Bog Witch anyway, so it's going to be iron either way, and even then fishing is treated as an optional side activity so it's just not very important when you are able to do it.
Last edited by Sotanaht; Nov 7, 2024 @ 1:26pm
#13
Draconis Nov 7, 2024 @ 2:23pm 
Also the cooked fish is not actually that useful. As far as I remember it is surpassed by all swamp tier foods and is on par with black forest foods that are easier to produce than cooked fish.

And.... cooked fish does not require trollfish und thus does not require the mossy bait.

Once you find the witch tables turn and trollfish becomes an actually quite useful thing. But you probably will find iron at that time anyway.

Originally posted by Sotanaht:
Honestly for what you can do with it, I don't even think it needs metal at all.

Preparing food might involve some cutting, and I think that is better done with metal knives. So iron does make sense.

Imaginge you try to cut a troll's head to bait sized pieces with a wooden knife....
#14
Sotanaht Nov 7, 2024 @ 3:35pm 
Originally posted by Draconis:
Also the cooked fish is not actually that useful. As far as I remember it is surpassed by all swamp tier foods and is on par with black forest foods that are easier to produce than cooked fish.

And.... cooked fish does not require trollfish und thus does not require the mossy bait.

Once you find the witch tables turn and trollfish becomes an actually quite useful thing. But you probably will find iron at that time anyway.

Originally posted by Sotanaht:
Honestly for what you can do with it, I don't even think it needs metal at all.

Preparing food might involve some cutting, and I think that is better done with metal knives. So iron does make sense.

Imaginge you try to cut a troll's head to bait sized pieces with a wooden knife....
I mean in a gameplay sense. What does the table unlock, and where should it be in the progression? All the stone oven stuff requires iron anyway, and all the feasts and fish stuff requires bog witch, so the only thing getting the table early would allow you to do is to make regular cooked fish.
#15
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Valheim > General Discussions > Topic Details
Date Posted: Nov 3, 2024 @ 8:47pm
Posts: 17

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