Performance DX vs Vulkan

[Derpy McDerpyson]

Did some short benchmarks to compare DX vs Vulkan performance today, and it would seem that Vulkan is the way to go if you want more frames.
Running at 1440p on a GTX 1080, i7 7700k @ 4.79 GHz, 32 GB 3200MHz 15-18-18-34 1T
[EDIT] Running on Windows 10. Game quality settings set to highest; DOF, motion blur, and bloom off.
DX, VK
Avg FPS: 54.1, 63.4
Min FPS: 16.7, 17.7
Max FPS: 81.6, 114.4
90th percentile: 43.1, 52.4
95th percentile: 39.5, 48.8
99th percentile: 32.6, 42.7

MsUntilDisplayed: Time spent inside the Present() API call
DX VK
Avg MsUntilDisplayed: 33.8ms, 11.5 ms
Max MsUntilDisplayed: 74.7ms, 19.1 ms
RenderPresentLatency: 7.7 ms, 11.5 ms

I noticed that on DX the GPU utilization was lower, 64.9% on average vs 75.2% with VK. Also the CPU usage was higher with DX at 55.9%, vs 43.4% VK

Of course this is just some preliminary testing but running with Vulkan seems better with my hardware anyways.

[Kaziklu78]

Origineel geplaatst door Jᴧgᴧ:

Origineel geplaatst door Kaziklu78:

Vulkan does give more frames but isn't as stable.

This, though I believe it may rely on GPU type and current driver. Especially on Nvidia cards, DX is (right now) much more stable overall for a lot of people. Right after Vulkan was turned on for Valheim, there were a rash of instability reports.

Origineel geplaatst door Kaziklu78:

The VSync also works properly with Vulkan so I'm not limited to 30 fps when I turn it on.

Vsync works fine with DX in Valheim as well, you simply have to use Alt-Enter twice to force true fullscreen while it's running.

This is very dishonest as you went way back into posts to find that. ya I had a issue that i learned early on. I don't really worry about it at this point. But to quote a old thread is dishonest.

And Vulkan is not as stable for many with DX. There have been several threads. If it works for you great. Use it. This isn't a contest between the two. If Vulkan works for you go for it. For me it isn't ready.

And yes on Nvidia cards or at least mine it isn't fully stable right now. Hence it isn't ready just yet.

As DX seems to work on most systems of both card types. Just not at the same FPS.

I like Vulkan... I like DX. Heck I like Glide too... This isn't a Us VS Them thing. and being dishonest about things by running through an old thread like that suggests that is what you are trying to make it. People polarize way too much today.

[Macdallan]

Origineel geplaatst door Shaurian:

Origineel geplaatst door Stinky Meatbag:

7700K+3080FE

Both API are stable but DX giving up to 30% more fps for me.

Sounds about right, from what I heard DX for PC's with good CPU, Vulkan for PC's with not so good CPU's.

Though I might be getting it mixed up. maybe it was GPU and not CPU, so in that case it'd be Vulkan for lower end GPU's and DX for higher end ones.

For reference I have Ryzen 7 3700x and rtx 2080 Super.

Well, some info I looked up says Vulkan can be better for a lower end CPU if you have a good GPU but I'm running an old CPU with a new-ish mid-range GPU.

As long as the FPS stays around 30-45 and it's stable, and it seems to be fine with both if I use the forced true fullscreen alt-enter trick, so I'm happy.

Hope some of the info in this thread helps some people achieve playable FPS though, I know some folks are looking at the 15-ish fps range which just isn't enough.

[Kaziklu78]

Origineel geplaatst door Derpy McDerpyson:

Origineel geplaatst door Kaziklu78:

Vulkan does give more frames but isn't as stable.
I have never had a crash under DX and Vulkan crashed consistently anytime their was a rain storm and I tried to use a smelter (outside) suggesting it doesn't like the fire or smoke effect.

Interesting. I also have had no crashes on either DX or VK.
Maybe VK just does not get along with your specific setup?

In early threads there were a few people mentioning some crashes. They aren't a lot.. but honestly DX right now is more stable across the board... If you have having issue with one... then try the other... If you want to try for more FPS then give it a go. You may get luckier than me.

To me though... this isn't a VK vs DX... it is just what gets me the most stable game play right now in the game with the best FPS. Right now DX does. With luck the next patch will make Vulkan more stable and then I will use that.

[DaTank]

Vulkan is more for under powered machines. If you have a lower end PC laptop Vulkan will perform better for you.

[Jᴧgᴧ]

Origineel geplaatst door Kaziklu78:

Origineel geplaatst door Jᴧgᴧ:

This, though I believe it may rely on GPU type and current driver. Especially on Nvidia cards, DX is (right now) much more stable overall for a lot of people. Right after Vulkan was turned on for Valheim, there were a rash of instability reports.


Vsync works fine with DX in Valheim as well, you simply have to use Alt-Enter twice to force true fullscreen while it's running.

This is very dishonest as you went way back into posts to find that. ya I had a issue that i learned early on. I don't really worry about it at this point. But to quote a old thread is dishonest.

And Vulkan is not as stable for many with DX. There have been several threads. If it works for you great. Use it. This isn't a contest between the two. If Vulkan works for you go for it. For me it isn't ready.

And yes on Nvidia cards or at least mine it isn't fully stable right now. Hence it isn't ready just yet.

As DX seems to work on most systems of both card types. Just not at the same FPS.

I like Vulkan... I like DX. Heck I like Glide too... This isn't a Us VS Them thing. and being dishonest about things by running through an old thread like that suggests that is what you are trying to make it. People polarize way too much today.

What? I quoted you from your post in this topic, 38 minutes ago. How is that going way back in posts to find it?

I think you're replying to the wrong quote mate. I have said before Vulkan isn't as stable, and I don't recommend it. We're agreeing on that front.

[Macdallan]

Origineel geplaatst door Kaziklu78:

Origineel geplaatst door Derpy McDerpyson:

Interesting. I also have had no crashes on either DX or VK.
Maybe VK just does not get along with your specific setup?

In early threads there were a few people mentioning some crashes. They aren't a lot.. but honestly DX right now is more stable across the board... If you have having issue with one... then try the other... If you want to try for more FPS then give it a go. You may get luckier than me.

To me though... this isn't a VK vs DX... it is just what gets me the most stable game play right now in the game with the best FPS. Right now DX does. With luck the next patch will make Vulkan more stable and then I will use that.

Yeah, absolutely. If one is stable and the other isn't then you definitely need to avoid the one causing issues.

[Kaziklu78]

Origineel geplaatst door Jᴧgᴧ:

Origineel geplaatst door Kaziklu78:

This is very dishonest as you went way back into posts to find that. ya I had a issue that i learned early on. I don't really worry about it at this point. But to quote a old thread is dishonest.

And Vulkan is not as stable for many with DX. There have been several threads. If it works for you great. Use it. This isn't a contest between the two. If Vulkan works for you go for it. For me it isn't ready.

And yes on Nvidia cards or at least mine it isn't fully stable right now. Hence it isn't ready just yet.

As DX seems to work on most systems of both card types. Just not at the same FPS.

I like Vulkan... I like DX. Heck I like Glide too... This isn't a Us VS Them thing. and being dishonest about things by running through an old thread like that suggests that is what you are trying to make it. People polarize way too much today.

What? I quoted you from your post in this topic, 38 minutes ago. How is that going way back in posts to find it?

I think you're replying to the wrong quote mate. I have said before Vulkan isn't as stable, and I don't recommend it. We're agreeing on that front.

And now you are lying and showing you were actively being dishonest. You would have had to go back several weeks to find me mentioning Vsync. I never mentioned Vsync one time. Don't put words in my mouth. Don't quote me saying something I haven't talked about in weeks.

[Xype]

Origineel geplaatst door Derpy McDerpyson:

Did some short benchmarks to compare DX vs Vulkan performance today, and it would seem that Vulkan is the way to go if you want more frames.
Running at 1440p on a GTX 1080, i7 7700k @ 4.79 GHz, 32 GB 3200MHz 15-18-18-34 1T
[EDIT] Running on Windows 10
DX, VK
Avg FPS: 54.1, 63.4
Min FPS: 16.7, 17.7
Max FPS: 81.6, 114.4
90th percentile: 43.1, 52.4
95th percentile: 39.5, 48.8
99th percentile: 32.6, 42.7

MsUntilDisplayed: Time spent inside the Present() API call
DX VK
Avg MsUntilDisplayed: 33.8ms, 11.5 ms
Max MsUntilDisplayed: 74.7ms, 19.1 ms
RenderPresentLatency: 7.7 ms, 11.5 ms

I noticed that on DX the GPU utilization was lower, 64.9% on average vs 75.2% with VK. Also the CPU usage was higher with DX at 55.9%, vs 43.4% VK

Of course this is just some preliminary testing but running with Vulkan seems better with my hardware anyways.

Yep and the reason vulcan runs better would mean dx12 would run better also, and depending on your system dx12 may run better than vulcan, in some cases vulcan would run better. I can't seem to get the game to run dx12 at all though so I think they didn't include dx12 in the build, hopefully they will later on.

[Macdallan]

Origineel geplaatst door Kaziklu78:

Origineel geplaatst door Jᴧgᴧ:

What? I quoted you from your post in this topic, 38 minutes ago. How is that going way back in posts to find it?

I think you're replying to the wrong quote mate. I have said before Vulkan isn't as stable, and I don't recommend it. We're agreeing on that front.

And now you are lying and showing you were actively being dishonest. You would have had to go back several weeks to find me mentioning Vsync. I never mentioned Vsync one time. Don't put words in my mouth. Don't quote me saying something I haven't talked about in weeks.

Why in the heck do you keep arguing? Drop it.

This thread can be helpful to some people but if all you're doing is arguing and dredging up crud from other posts it's going to get locked or deleted.

[Kaziklu78]

Origineel geplaatst door Macdallan:

Origineel geplaatst door Kaziklu78:

And now you are lying and showing you were actively being dishonest. You would have had to go back several weeks to find me mentioning Vsync. I never mentioned Vsync one time. Don't put words in my mouth. Don't quote me saying something I haven't talked about in weeks.

Why in the heck do you keep arguing? Drop it.

This thread can be helpful to some people but if all you're doing is arguing and dredging up crud from other posts it's going to get locked or deleted.

I'm not going to sit here while someone puts words in my mouth while trying to turn this isn't a Vulkan is master race ♥♥♥♥... the only reason to do that is to take a personal shot.. so no... I won't put up with that BS.

[Shure Iam]

Origineel geplaatst door Xype:

Origineel geplaatst door Derpy McDerpyson:

Did some short benchmarks to compare DX vs Vulkan performance today, and it would seem that Vulkan is the way to go if you want more frames.
Running at 1440p on a GTX 1080, i7 7700k @ 4.79 GHz, 32 GB 3200MHz 15-18-18-34 1T
[EDIT] Running on Windows 10
DX, VK
Avg FPS: 54.1, 63.4
Min FPS: 16.7, 17.7
Max FPS: 81.6, 114.4
90th percentile: 43.1, 52.4
95th percentile: 39.5, 48.8
99th percentile: 32.6, 42.7

MsUntilDisplayed: Time spent inside the Present() API call
DX VK
Avg MsUntilDisplayed: 33.8ms, 11.5 ms
Max MsUntilDisplayed: 74.7ms, 19.1 ms
RenderPresentLatency: 7.7 ms, 11.5 ms

I noticed that on DX the GPU utilization was lower, 64.9% on average vs 75.2% with VK. Also the CPU usage was higher with DX at 55.9%, vs 43.4% VK

Of course this is just some preliminary testing but running with Vulkan seems better with my hardware anyways.

Yep and the reason vulcan runs better would mean dx12 would run better also, and depending on your system dx12 may run better than vulcan, in some cases vulcan would run better. I can't seem to get the game to run dx12 at all though so I think they didn't include dx12 in the build, hopefully they will later on.

Backend Implementations really dictate how well something will perform though. Just because Vulkan gives performance benefits doesn't instantly mean that DX12 would also yield improvements. Not to mention is usually takes *time* to implement.

As an Example. 7 Days to Die has recently been working on a Vulkan Implementation, and it's unfinished. and in its unfinished state it actively runs WORSE than whatever DX level the game runs on. I forget which one it is but it isn't 12.

[Watergun]

Origineel geplaatst door Derpy McDerpyson:

Origineel geplaatst door Kaziklu78:

Vulkan does give more frames but isn't as stable.
I have never had a crash under DX and Vulkan crashed consistently anytime their was a rain storm and I tried to use a smelter (outside) suggesting it doesn't like the fire or smoke effect.

Interesting. I also have had no crashes on either DX or VK.
Maybe VK just does not get along with your specific setup?

With Vulkan, crash consistently within 30 mins gameplay. With default DirectX, not a single crash for 3 to 4 hours continuous gameplay. Total, more than 100 hours gameplay.

System setup:
I7-7700hq CPU
GTX 1060 with 6 gb VRAM GPU
16 gb RAM
SSD Harddrive

[Xype]

Origineel geplaatst door Shaurian:

Origineel geplaatst door Xype:

Yep and the reason vulcan runs better would mean dx12 would run better also, and depending on your system dx12 may run better than vulcan, in some cases vulcan would run better. I can't seem to get the game to run dx12 at all though so I think they didn't include dx12 in the build, hopefully they will later on.

Backend Implementations really dictate how well something will perform though. Just because Vulkan gives performance benefits doesn't instantly mean that DX12 would also yield improvements. Not to mention is usually takes *time* to implement.

As an Example. 7 Days to Die has recently been working on a Vulkan Implementation, and it's unfinished. and in its unfinished state it actively runs WORSE than whatever DX level the game runs on. I forget which one it is but it isn't 12.

11, dx12 and vulcan have one similar feature that makes it desirable in many circumstances, it allows your video card to handle more taking some off your cpu. It is a system by system game by game thing on which works better. Example dx11 does better in civ 6 for me, but dx12 is much better for me in Anno. I don't think vulcan or dx12 should ever be the standard for this game (neither are exactly stable), I would just like them to be available (like vulcan is now) for us to switch to and try out, play whichever works best on our system.

[Jᴧgᴧ]

Origineel geplaatst door Kaziklu78:

And now you are lying and showing you were actively being dishonest. You would have had to go back several weeks to find me mentioning Vsync. I never mentioned Vsync one time. Don't put words in my mouth. Don't quote me saying something I haven't talked about in weeks.

Ah, no, I see what you're referring to - my second quote from you was from a different topic. I probably had copied that when editing over there by mistake. First quote is still from this topic, and my reply to the other one still stands as good advice for others to follow (we agree on that part).

So no, not dishonest, just a mistake copy-pasting on my part from elsewhere.

Edit: I see what happened now - the quoting system (or edits I made) changed the author from MacDallan to you Kaziklu, totally unintentional. I've since corrected it to put his name on the quote.

[Xype]

Origineel geplaatst door Xype:

Origineel geplaatst door Shaurian:

Backend Implementations really dictate how well something will perform though. Just because Vulkan gives performance benefits doesn't instantly mean that DX12 would also yield improvements. Not to mention is usually takes *time* to implement.

As an Example. 7 Days to Die has recently been working on a Vulkan Implementation, and it's unfinished. and in its unfinished state it actively runs WORSE than whatever DX level the game runs on. I forget which one it is but it isn't 12.

11, dx12 and vulcan have one similar feature that makes it desirable in many circumstances, it allows your video card to handle more taking some off your cpu. It is a system by system game by game thing on which works better. Example dx11 does better in civ 6 for me, but dx12 is much better for me in Anno. I don't think vulcan or dx12 should ever be the standard for this game (neither are exactly stable), I would just like them to be available (like vulcan is now) for us to switch to and try out, play whichever works best on our system.

As far as your time to implement, I hope you realize it is literally a checkbox lmao. Optimizing for one particular api is another story, but giving the option to use it is a matter of checking a box.