Why are games so obsessed with 3rd person?

[Jorduin]

It just detracts from gameplay... why pointlessly skew your perspective and immersion? To look at your own 8bit ass?

[GROOG]

1st person toggle is needed for building at least. sometiimes there are weird angles you just cant get to otherwise

[Mharr]

There are definitely indoors situations where being able to scroll in to first person would be better than whatever the camera logic is trying to do, but first vs. third person viewpoint informs so much of the design of everything else, from architecture & sound design to AI and combat mechanics that trying to support both is unexpectedly tricky. It's not as much extra work as adding VR support but it leans in the same direction.

[magnificent moose]

Originally posted by Faceplant8:

Does the camera roll in 3rd person when you dodge roll? Why would you think it would roll in first person? That would be dumb.

I agree that would be dumb. That is kind of the point. If you don't roll the camera with the character then what do you do? How does the player know what's happening? Even just a rapid sideways movement is probably quite jarring in first person. If you believe this is somehow possible to do, please find a video example and post a time stamped link to it so I can see how it looks. I am not aware of any game that does this so I am genuinely curious.

In my opinion, Bethesda's mistake with the Elder Scrolls was that they wanted to support the "immersive" first person mode. It limits what they can do with the combat. The result is this compromise which looks really stiff and janky especially from the third person view. From software abandoned the first person mode when they moved from Kings Field to Demon's Souls and the result speaks for itself.

Originally posted by Faceplant8:

Again, you're missing the point of first person. I don't really play FPS shooters, so I don't know what they do, but I don't understand why you would expect to be able to quickly zoom, or zoom at all. When you look at something, can you zoom with your eyes?

I'm not talking about zooming. As I said I'm talking about simply looking in different directions. You know, the thing you usually do with the right analog stick. Games let you adjust the sensitivity of the thumbstick, in practice you can choose between two alternatives: too slow or too imprecise. Again most console games are third person because of this reason. It just feels bad, especially if you have ever played an FPS using mouse and keyboard.

[Mharr]

From a simple gameplay perspective it's like quantum uncertainty. You can have perfect knowledge of where you are or which way you're pointing, but never both at once.

[Marissa]

3rd person makes me more aware what happens around me….

But in Scrap Mechanic (another game I love to play) you can switch between 3rd and 1st person.
I mostly play 3rd person, unless I am building then 1st person is way handier.
So I guess it depends on the situation.

[Arlith]

Originally posted by blprice61:

Why are bosses damage sponges with big guns and bad aim? (and arguably worse mob AI than many lesser mobs)?

The two questions: yours and mine, are related.

Part of it is simply inertia and history, player expectations. Another is tech limits.

Because that is how the developer envisioned the game. That's really it. Work in the industry and it's not as deep or complicated as a lot of people think. Very rarely some devs make the game in the POV that is the most popular at the time but usually it's like I said, dev preference. Mystery solved, now we can all have lunch.

[Faceplant]

Originally posted by magnificent moose:

Originally posted by Faceplant8:

Does the camera roll in 3rd person when you dodge roll? Why would you think it would roll in first person? That would be dumb.

I agree that would be dumb. That is kind of the point. If you don't roll the camera with the character then what do you do? How does the player know what's happening? Even just a rapid sideways movement is probably quite jarring in first person. If you believe this is somehow possible to do, please find a video example and post a time stamped link to it so I can see how it looks. I am not aware of any game that does this so I am genuinely curious.

The camera is not tied to the character, it it tied to the look direction, which, just like in third person, doesn't roll in a dodge-roll because it's mostly an animation, not a movement. You can simulate it by just zooming in all the way and doing a roll. Just imagine the camera a bit farther forward.

I suspect there are many more games that support first person than you realize, including many on console. You likely don't realize it because it doesn't affect, and shouldn't affect third person play.

[m_train1]

3rd person gives a better sense proprioception. 1st person makes it feel nonexistent. I'd rather have a better sense of self and surroundings.

[Shealladh]

The only annoying thing I find with the camera is when trying to build pillars underwater for say a dock, the camera bounces upon the waves, like what why, so annoying

[Mharr]

Yup yup, building around water is the 'best'.

[hallaloth]

So, speaking as someone who has vision problems (including peripheral vision reduction compared to most people) first person SUCKS.

A lot of first person games have slight camera jitter, those that don't. . .the camera motion is actually TOO fluid and it gets weird. The field of vision for a first person camera is just wrong, and it really messes with my perceptions. This isn't something I can 'fix' either. . .

It's always been extremely off putting to me, and quite frankly, if I see a first person camera in a game. . . I'm a lot more on the fence about playing it because it messes with my perception that badly.

[SumatranRatMonkey]

I was originally a pure 1st person player and it's still my favorite, but for certain games that have an emphasis on close encounters and offer both views, you can see how 3rd person is superior for playing effectively. A great example is Mount & Blade: Warband where 3rd person is (or rather, was, since it's an old game) ubiquitous for most things at the pro level in MP. This is since you don't need to guess as much where your character's body connects in the game world, for instance how your sword is going to hit. Valheim has similar concerns in close combat and even other interactions.

For something like Counter-Strike where close combat is rare, 1st person is fine and cleaner.

[Mharr]

It does mostly come down to whether the game is swords or guns in practice.

[NiteAtom]

Originally posted by Jorduin:

It just detracts from gameplay... why pointlessly skew your perspective and immersion? To look at your own 8bit ass?

For myself 3rdPP is the best way to play all games.. I can't stand 1stPP it removes what i can see around my character and it's environment and ruins the game-play.. If it's in 1stPP only i just don't even play it.. And especially games like Valhiem, or anything that's a Survival type mechanic, i say even shooters should always be in the 3rdPP.. Just add both Perspectives to all games so each player has a choice instead of limiting the Perspective.. But that's just my preference..

[Mharr]

Originally posted by NiteAtom:

Just add both Perspectives to all games

That's the problem, first or third person is a UX and game design decision that impacts how you design your controls, player abilities, graphical style, scale of buildings, enemy behaviour, everything. Think of the difference between 3d platform jumping in first and third person. Building a game that can support both equally comes with compromises.