Performance question toward dedicated server planning

[Einstine]

QUESTION: On a decent PC does Valheim run at a decent framerate with 2-4 players on a solid dedicated server?

Yes, this is a very general question, but I assume there's enough experience out there now to answer it... generally.

I'm using G-portal for two other games ded. servers and want to give Valheim another try. When I tried it the first time I did not have the patience for it, but my questions aren't about gameplay, but about how it performs.

I just bought it again and it 'feels'... like it runs at a lower fps than it should, for its detail level. I've seen enough comments to feel this can be an issue as more people join and/or more is built??? I don't know.

I'm just trying to get a general feel for how it will do across multiple PC's of varying age, as I'd like to find ONE game that will work well for a ded. server for dispersed family members, young to older, with the oldest gpu probably being a 980ti.

[Zathabar]

Originally posted by Einstine:

I just bought it again and it 'feels'... like it runs at a lower fps than it should, for its detail level. I've seen enough comments to feel this can be an issue as more people join and/or more is built??? I don't know.

And you are right! The optimisation is very poor indeed for the amount of time its been out.

Large bases will bring ANY PC to a stutter if they are big enough - BUT that's a thing caused by the local CPU chocking on drek not and over stressed server.

I've participated on a 4 way G-portal server before No issues for us server wise. But I now run my own on an old i5 Desktop in my bedroom and have folks from US/UK/Scandinavia play with no reported server issues.

But if any one of us goes near a base or area with 8000+ instances of build items and scenery.. they may see their FPS starting to slide for that player only

[Einstine]

Nice summary, thanks. If that's accurate that's definitely not a show stopper, just an occasional PITA.

[Gisbert]

Originally posted by Einstine:

QUESTION: On a decent PC does Valheim run at a decent framerate with 2-4 players on a solid dedicated server?

Yes, this is a very general question, but I assume there's enough experience out there now to answer it... generally.

I'm using G-portal for two other games ded. servers and want to give Valheim another try. When I tried it the first time I did not have the patience for it, but my questions aren't about gameplay, but about how it performs.

I just bought it again and it 'feels'... like it runs at a lower fps than it should, for its detail level. I've seen enough comments to feel this can be an issue as more people join and/or more is built??? I don't know.

I'm just trying to get a general feel for how it will do across multiple PC's of varying age, as I'd like to find ONE game that will work well for a ded. server for dispersed family members, young to older, with the oldest gpu probably being a 980ti.

https://jamesachambers.com/revisiting-fixing-valheim-lag-modifying-send-receive-limits/

I can only urge you to read this guide completely, read the comments COMPLETELY and understand what the problem is with Valheim and dedicated servers.

I have played through the game twice in large groups and only after applying the changes from this guide, the game was a lot more bearable. But you have to know what you are doing.

[Einstine]

Originally posted by Gisbert:

https://jamesachambers.com/revisiting-fixing-valheim-lag-modifying-send-receive-limits/

I can only urge you to read this guide completely, read the comments COMPLETELY and understand what the problem is with Valheim and dedicated servers.

I have played through the game twice in large groups and only after applying the changes from this guide, the game was a lot more bearable. But you have to know what you are doing.

Thanks for this. I'll definitely be digging in. I felt there was something unusual with this game, given the small footprint, low res look, but general stodginess. Hell, Jedi Survivor on Ultra runs smoother for me.

[Gisbert]

Originally posted by Einstine:

Originally posted by Gisbert:

https://jamesachambers.com/revisiting-fixing-valheim-lag-modifying-send-receive-limits/

I can only urge you to read this guide completely, read the comments COMPLETELY and understand what the problem is with Valheim and dedicated servers.

I have played through the game twice in large groups and only after applying the changes from this guide, the game was a lot more bearable. But you have to know what you are doing.

Thanks for this. I'll definitely be digging in. I felt there was something unusual with this game, given the small footprint, low res look, but general stodginess. Hell, Jedi Survivor on Ultra runs smoother for me.

You are welcome.

The problem is a really bad written peer-to-peer based code.
Back when I had my servers running, I spent way too much time looking into it and trying to write my own fix in my server dll.

I had some contact with James regarding the problem, some comments are also from me.
This guy is really top notch.

You can't fix the problem completely, only provide a slight remedy. It should help a lot for Ashlands, though.

[Einstine]

Originally posted by Gisbert:

The problem is a really bad written peer-to-peer based code. Back when I had my servers running, I spent way too much time looking into it and trying to write my own fix in my server dll.

I had some contact with James regarding the problem, some comments are also from me.
This guy is really top notch.

You can't fix the problem completely, only provide a slight remedy. It should help a lot for Ashlands, though.

Please forgive me, as I'm shooting in the dark but is any part of it related to the game having such a small footprint, and the worlds being 'procedurally generated' and so my conclusion was the game has to do some landscape rendering live, even for things you would think it shouldn't have to, and that's what munches cpu cycles? Partially anyway?

Please don't stone me for my ponderings, for I know not what I do.

[Darren Daulton]

Originally posted by Einstine:

Originally posted by Gisbert:

The problem is a really bad written peer-to-peer based code. Back when I had my servers running, I spent way too much time looking into it and trying to write my own fix in my server dll.

I had some contact with James regarding the problem, some comments are also from me.
This guy is really top notch.

You can't fix the problem completely, only provide a slight remedy. It should help a lot for Ashlands, though.

Please forgive me, as I'm shooting in the dark but is any part of it related to the game having such a small footprint, and the worlds being 'procedurally generated' and so my conclusion was the game has to do some landscape rendering live, even for things you would think it shouldn't have to, and that's what munches cpu cycles? Partially anyway?

Please don't stone me for my ponderings, for I know not what I do.

The problem as far as i'm aware is that you are able to build and also change the original terrain after the world gen. The game tracks each change you make as an instance. Every time you re-enter an area that has been modified the game cycles though all of the "changes" you have made to present the world in its current format.

I have run a dedicated server on a second box in my office several times for several different groups. Both rl friends only, internet friends, and a mix. I never really had any problems. Most I've ever had online at one time was 10 (the current vanilla cap). But more commonly 2-4.

The game isn't purely peer-to-peer, but it does rely on a single user PC to act as chunk master for physics and whatnot. Therefore if you are playing with someone on a potato it will be very obvious, especially if they are the first person in a new "chunk"

[Gisbert]

Originally posted by Darren Daulton:

The game isn't purely peer-to-peer, but it does rely on a single user PC to act as chunk master for physics and whatnot. Therefore if you are playing with someone on a potato it will be very obvious, especially if they are the first person in a new "chunk"

Exactly this.

It is a kind of hybrid system, but the world is not loaded onto a server as you would expect. Instead, the first player in a chunk loads the map and objects / takes on the role of the server, so to speak. In addition, all data must be passed on from him to all other players AND back again. The bottleneck is therefore always the weakest computer/weakest internet connection of a player. Then there are problems with the send/receive limits which are code-sided bottlenecked.

This is, of course, explained quite simply.
There are a lot more problems due to the outdated connection method.

Have you ever had the problem that you can't open a chest? When a certain player leaves the server/render area, does it suddenly open instantly? Just a small example.
Or carts sinking into the ground.

Don't even get me started on the damage calculation in group/boss fights. One enemy may already be dead and on another machine may still be dealing damage, etc.

[Gisbert]

Originally posted by Einstine:

Please forgive me, as I'm shooting in the dark but is any part of it related to the game having such a small footprint, and the worlds being 'procedurally generated' and so my conclusion was the game has to do some landscape rendering live, even for things you would think it shouldn't have to, and that's what munches cpu cycles? Partially anyway?

Please don't stone me for my ponderings, for I know not what I do.

in fact, it has less to do with how the world is rendered on a local computer.

Of course, every piece of information that has to be sent has an impact. But that's not the problem here.

Valheim uses a kind of networking old xbox/playstation consoles used. That's why they had a player limit. And you also have more or less the same scaling problems. Especially the number of players stacks extremely.

That's why you don't notice any of this in co-op up to 2 maybe 3 players. I would say over 80% of players play solo or with a maximum of 3 players. Up to 3 players, the whole thing is still "kind of okay".

To really solve this problem, Devs would have to throw the entire code in the garbage can and switch to a more modern server/client model.

All this bla bla doesn't solve your problems, but you asked.
And now we are back to the topic and I tell you, the page I linked and tips there is the best remedy you can get.
Unfortunately you have to bring some ambition and a little basic knowledge of the subject. I also really recommend to read through all comments once to understand the problem exactly before you set up your server.
https://jamesachambers.com/revisiting-fixing-valheim-lag-modifying-send-receive-limits/

Best regards/