Swamp with no dungeons?

[zOldBulldog]

I just found my first swamp and I know that the primary objective in the swamp is to find iron. I also know that the normal place for iron in muddy scrap piles in dungeons.

But... the swamp I found is pretty small and as far as I can tell it does not have a dungeon that I can open with my swamp key. It has a stone tower that could be converted into a base, there are a couple weird deformed vertical stones (that I assume have a purpose) and of course mobs and trees that I'm farming for an initial stockpile. I also came across a small mound on the surface that I haven't seen in other biomes.

So... I need advice:
1) Should I keep farming before moving on? For example, to make the mask that protects me from poison.
2) Is there any way to get iron from this small swamp? I somehow found 1 iron scrap, probably looted from a mob, but that method will likely be very slow.
3) Is there anything else worth doing here before moving on to search for a better swamp?
4) What is the best way to find another swamp besides traveling randomly on a boat?

[Faceplant]

Publicado originalmente por HyperLightDrifter:

Before you tell someone they are wrong, maybe take a moment to asses if you actually understand the topic.

Extraordinary claims, and all that.

You can actually see for yourself where all the crypts are for all the random worlds you want here: https://valheim-map.world/

I just picked a random world and quickly counted what I saw, and it came to 44 swamps with crypts and 6 without. There may have been some tiny ones that didn't have crypts, but they're tiny...

There are crypts everywhere!

[Oakshield]

Publicado originalmente por HyperLightDrifter:

Publicado originalmente por Faceplant8:

"half the swamps ... without crypts" - I suppose if you classify every rock that's classified as a swamp, you may be able to come up with that statistic, but clearly that's completely wrong.

"tens of hours" - You can see many (most?) crypts from the water just floating past, and I'm sure you could sail past every swamp in an entire world and see many 10s of crypts in just a few 10s of hours.

The one thing that I agree with is that swamp and mountain seem swapped. Plains is more of a "gotcha" biome, where you inevitably wander too close to it at some point too early and it gets you, but once you get there, it's one of the easier biomes IMO. I don't think moving it around is going to change that, since you can avoid pretty much everything and take out the remainder easily with a bow.

No. half the swamps on most map generations do not have crypts. This occurs because the game partitions existing swamp biomes using ocean generation. As a result, most swamps will be a portion of the outside of an existing swamp and the crypts are contained further inside.
If acquiring iron was not dependent upon finding a crypt this would not be a problem and it's one of those components of the game where a player either has enough iron on a map or they simply do not and the only way to find out is to get to that stage of the game or use the exploremap command.
Before you tell someone they are wrong, maybe take a moment to asses if you actually understand the topic.

Just checked my current map.

I found 26 swamps having at least one, but usually 4+ crypts.
I found 16 swamps having no crypt and out of those 6 are large enough to contain at least one crypt.

I also checked some of the maps I previously played at and found they're having crypts in 60-70% of the swamps. So it seems that statement of "half the swamps don't have crypts" is wrong.

As for "understanding the topic";

the OP asked for help after findng a small swamp without crypts. The usual - and only valid - answer to that is to keep exploring until you find another swamp; which could be large enough to contain at least one, but hopefully more crypts.
Also, the Swamp isn't the only place where you can find iron, just like the Black Forest isn't the only place where you can find copper. There's a biome further down the road which contains both metals as well.

I guess you missed that, eh?

Which only means that with the Swamp being a source of iron earlier in the game, it's a matter of making decissions about what to use that iron for. Which will most likely be more difficult in a game with other players, as it will be in a solo game.
But running short on iron? I doubt that'll happen; unless you spend it all to build grate walls and grate floors.

Thorin

[HyperLightDrifter]

Publicado originalmente por Oakshield:

Publicado originalmente por HyperLightDrifter:

No. half the swamps on most map generations do not have crypts. This occurs because the game partitions existing swamp biomes using ocean generation. As a result, most swamps will be a portion of the outside of an existing swamp and the crypts are contained further inside.
If acquiring iron was not dependent upon finding a crypt this would not be a problem and it's one of those components of the game where a player either has enough iron on a map or they simply do not and the only way to find out is to get to that stage of the game or use the exploremap command.
Before you tell someone they are wrong, maybe take a moment to asses if you actually understand the topic.

Just checked my current map.

I found 26 swamps having at least one, but usually 4+ crypts.
I found 16 swamps having no crypt and out of those 6 are large enough to contain at least one crypt.

I also checked some of the maps I previously played at and found they're having crypts in 60-70% of the swamps. So it seems that statement of "half the swamps don't have crypts" is wrong.

As for "understanding the topic";

the OP asked for help after findng a small swamp without crypts. The usual - and only valid - answer to that is to keep exploring until you find another swamp; which could be large enough to contain at least one, but hopefully more crypts.
Also, the Swamp isn't the only place where you can find iron, just like the Black Forest isn't the only place where you can find copper. There's a biome further down the road which contains both metals as well.

I guess you missed that, eh?

Which only means that with the Swamp being a source of iron earlier in the game, it's a matter of making decissions about what to use that iron for. Which will most likely be more difficult in a game with other players, as it will be in a solo game.
But running short on iron? I doubt that'll happen; unless you spend it all to build grate walls and grate floors.

Thorin

Oh so I was off by 10%! My mistake....
And as far as your range goes, it's a little bit over half except for on some map gens realistically aside from the rare generations which the map seeds are known of by the community, one of which Faceplant8 just shared, pretending it was the norm. I get it though, there is need to to blindly defend the game you love even if that means exaggerating the truth, just remember, doing so hinders the advice it need moving forward.
Also, bringing up sources of iron that a player cannot use in the early stage of the game is purposefully missing my point here in regards to addressing game progression and acquiring materials at the stage of the game the player would find themselves in.

I guess you brought that irrelevant point up for no reason other than to disagree with me, eh?

And it's not the topic but copper and tin are never a problem, there's probably 100 times the amount of iron on most map gens along with the overabundance of empty black forest in general.

Edit: And no, I am not counting tiny swamps that a player can move through in 20 steps in this calculation before someone pretends they are being included in this discussion.

[Faceplant]

Publicado originalmente por HyperLightDrifter:

aside from the rare generations which the map seeds are known of by the community, one of which Faceplant8 just shared, pretending it was the norm.

"rare generations"?

I don't know what it is about these forums that some seem to want argue a point that they can easily get the answer to themselves. I gave you a link to the website where you can just click on the "random" button and see for yourself.

If you want to show proof of what you're saying, go ahead, but everyone else can just click the mouse a few times and make their own judgement.

[HyperLightDrifter]

Publicado originalmente por Faceplant8:

Publicado originalmente por HyperLightDrifter:

aside from the rare generations which the map seeds are known of by the community, one of which Faceplant8 just shared, pretending it was the norm.

"rare generations"?

I don't know what it is about these forums that some seem to want argue a point that they can easily get the answer to themselves. I gave you a link to the website where you can just click on the "random" button and see for yourself.

If you want to show proof of what you're saying, go ahead, but everyone else can just click the mouse a few times and make their own judgement.

I just checked it out and uploaded my map seed to that site that you shared and it's marking down crypts in swamps where they don't exist. Might be a problem with the program. Everything else looked good and yes, I marked the correct date as to when the map was created.
Either that or it's something wrong on my end where the game is just not generating crypts on most swamps for some reason.

[Faceplant]

Publicado originalmente por HyperLightDrifter:

I just checked it out and uploaded my map seed to that site that you shared and it's marking down crypts in swamps where they don't exist. Might be a problem with the program. Everything else looked good and yes, I marked the correct date as to when the map was created.
Either that or it's something wrong on my end where the game is just not generating crypts on most swamps for some reason.

It the basis of your whole argument based on your personal experience on a single map? If so, how can you say that someone with over 3500 hours in the game, who has played through the game dozens of times doesn't know what they're talking about?

FWIW, I've found the map generator to be very accurate, and the density of crypts has changed over various releases, and was sparse at times. Maybe you chose a bad time to make that map?

[HyperLightDrifter]

Publicado originalmente por Faceplant8:

Publicado originalmente por HyperLightDrifter:

I just checked it out and uploaded my map seed to that site that you shared and it's marking down crypts in swamps where they don't exist. Might be a problem with the program. Everything else looked good and yes, I marked the correct date as to when the map was created.
Either that or it's something wrong on my end where the game is just not generating crypts on most swamps for some reason.

It the basis of your whole argument based on your personal experience on a single map? If so, how can you say that someone with over 3500 hours in the game, who has played through the game dozens of times doesn't know what they're talking about?

FWIW, I've found the map generator to be very accurate, and the density of crypts has changed over various releases, and was sparse at times. Maybe you chose a bad time to make that map?

No, I've created about 20 maps so far, just coming back to the game now after being away for a year or so.
I just dev flew over to one of the swamps on the seed I was bringing up and for that swamp, every single crypt was correct and they were all jam packed together. Seems to be a case of feast or famine, but the generator is still counting crypts where they don't exist in some swamps that are completely empty.
Also, I did a few other maps on that generator. My seed was terrible for crypts and the first 6 I sailed to didn't have a single one and they were quite large and this was my experience with the game the first time I played it.

Edit: Total hours means nothing in a game where you can easily spend half an hour at a time sailing from point A to point B every single time, over and over again doing absolutely nothing the entire time. Or if you are spending hours rebuilding the same base at different locations over and over again to experience the game as if it actually has some depth to it aside from swinging some form of axe into a mineable resource that only thousands of hours would help an individual comprehend.
But I have 380 hours on me if you are curious and using that a benchmark.
And if you enjoy those hours sailing and mining that don't actually build any understanding there is not to be had to begin with at all, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

To answer your question though, if you are going to start our conversation by calling me flat out wrong I am going to respond to you like you deserve to be responded to. If you don't like it, don't be so dismissive of people and watch as they aren't as dismissive of you.

[zOldBulldog]

There may be a distance from original spawn effect to generating swamps with crypts. I eventually found crypts on my 3rd swamp, and no... I could not see them from water. Also, before this one I'd already discovered a couple dozen mountains and at least a half dozen plain biomes.

I do realize that an experienced player might not find this troubling, but it can be quite discouraging for a player on his first play-through. It might explain why so many players abandon the game after the black forest... just "too much of a hassle" for newcomers.

I would even say that in some maps it is even annoying to find enough Sirtling Cores to smelt and build the first pair of portals. If you aren't into building and setting up farms as a way to entertain yourself as you progress with your scouting, I would call the grind aspect of the game mind-numbingly boring. After beating off a couple dozen assaults in the woods, or half a dozen raids... they lose their charm and become just another annoying grind element.

In other words, I agree with the poster that says that something needs to change, at least before version 1.0.

[Blackguard]

Yep, sometimes regardless of their size, entire swamp AND MOUNTAIN biomes just won't have their respective key resources in them.

It's incredibly aggravating to search through an entire mountain biome and not find any silver at all, trust me.

[Faceplant]

Publicado originalmente por zOldBulldog:

There may be a distance from original spawn effect to generating swamps with crypts.

Yes. As a general rule, after black forest, go out, not around. You're going to run into many plains biomes, and you just have to avoid them. You might even reach Mistlands, but Bonemass is likely to be pretty far out anyway, so getting out there early is not such a bad idea.

Publicado originalmente por zOldBulldog:

I do realize that an experienced player might not find this troubling, but it can be quite discouraging for a player on his first play-through. It might explain why so many players abandon the game after the black forest... just "too much of a hassle" for newcomers.

I would even say that in some maps it is even annoying to find enough Sirtling Cores to smelt and build the first pair of portals. If you aren't into building and setting up farms as a way to entertain yourself as you progress with your scouting, I would call the grind aspect of the game mind-numbingly boring. After beating off a couple dozen assaults in the woods, or half a dozen raids... they lose their charm and become just another annoying grind element.

We all were new players at one time, and I understand what you're saying, but if this is "too much of a hassle", then I'm not sure you're going to like the rest of the game.

Just being honest.

[zOldBulldog]

Publicado originalmente por Faceplant8:

We all were new players at one time, and I understand what you're saying, but if this is "too much of a hassle", then I'm not sure you're going to like the rest of the game.

Just being honest.

Well, that is why we have mods. Pick the right ones and the hassles melt away, leaving the fun to be enjoyed. I am already using some to reduce the hassle of boring tasks even in my first (easy, no hostility unless I engage) and second (normal) maps.

Still, if you want the largest number of players buying the game, you need to make the experience fun at all stages, and not everyone will think of mods right off the bat like I did. It is just smart business.

[Faceplant]

Publicado originalmente por zOldBulldog:

Well, that is why we have mods. Pick the right ones and the hassles melt away, leaving the fun to be enjoyed. I am already using some to reduce the hassle of boring tasks even in my first (easy, no hostility unless I engage) and second (normal) maps.

Still, if you want the largest number of players buying the game, you need to make the experience fun at all stages, and not everyone will think of mods right off the bat like I did. It is just smart business.

I don't know what you consider "fun" in the game, but what you appear to consider "boring" in this case IS the game. Like I said, they have tuned the density of crypts, and likely other POI generation, but swamp is where you first have to venture out and really search for what you need. It's just the beginning of the adventure.

It can take you an hour or so to find a swamp big enough to contain enough crypts to make your iron-age equipment. It can easily take you RL days to get what you need for, say, Fenris armor. It can also take you RL days to find Yag.

Don't even consider Mistlands. I very much enjoy the difficulty of the hunt, but got very frustrated my first time through Mistlands.

I believe there are mods that change world generation, but I don't know why you would want to play a game where you're wanting to mod out a fundamental part of the almost from the beginning.

[blackphoenixx]

Publicado originalmente por zOldBulldog:

Still, if you want the largest number of players buying the game, you need to make the experience fun at all stages, and not everyone will think of mods right off the bat like I did. It is just smart business.

If they wanted the largest number of players they would've made a looter shooter with a cash shop and a lot of handholding, not a nichy survival craft game that's targeted at players who like a challenge.

It's art.

[He Who Has No Name]

The map generator has this weird propensity to sometimes make swamp biomes - occasionally, very LARGE swamp biomes - with just one or two, and sometimes no, crypts. It's irritating.

Usually you can go find a different Swamp and it's chock full of crypts.

Or, you can be like me and hit three cryptless Swamps in a row and start to wonder if your world is glitched.

[zOldBulldog]

Publicado originalmente por blackphoenixx:

Publicado originalmente por zOldBulldog:

Still, if you want the largest number of players buying the game, you need to make the experience fun at all stages, and not everyone will think of mods right off the bat like I did. It is just smart business.

If they wanted the largest number of players they would've made a looter shooter with a cash shop and a lot of handholding, not a nichy survival craft game that's targeted at players who like a challenge.

It's art.

Not complaining, it ended up dropping to $10 quite quickly, probably because it wasn't selling... and that is what I bought it for. Added mods and it made the game fun for me.