Early magic?

[Red Purger]

Would be nice to have access to some kind of magic earlier on. By the time I get to mistlands I've already more-or-less settled into a specific build. It would be nice to have some form of magic early, in order to level it up and build your character around it a little.
Even if it's just some basic stuff, like maybe you can craft staffs from the greydwarf shaman heads or something, or a basic necromancy staff that you craft from those poison skeleton skulls.

Just something to level magic in the early game.

[Cyseal]

They aren't really paying attention that much to early/mid game. They're just pumping out new, cool stuff instead of focusing on making the game polished for new players. Kinda sad, but it's usually what the community wants.

[Exodite-Dragon]

What's funny is that iirc the rancid remains trophy was required to make the dead raiser during ML's public test, but I think that was changed to standard skeleton trophies given the rarity of the former.

Even though magic comes late (currently) it IS pretty potent when you first get your hands on a staff. I know people fixate on skill levels in this game and while I'm not blind to the impact they can have, I also don't think you're as SOL as many want to believe starting from level 0 on elemental and blood magic in the ML, either.

[Cattastrafy]

Regardless of how good magic is when you get it out of the box, the replayability of this game would go through the roof for a lotta people if they gave us well tuned, early game magic AND made sure there's a weapon for each type at each tier instead of having all these missing spots.

What if I want to be a ferocious 2h axe wielder the entire game? Cool you get swamp and mountains to do it.

[Lorska]

You want to use fist weapons?
No worries, you can punch people in every biome! And you don't even need a weapon!
What a bargain!

[Altimely]

Originally posted by Cyseal:

They aren't really paying attention that much to early/mid game. They're just pumping out new, cool stuff instead of focusing on making the game polished for new players. Kinda sad, but it's usually what the community wants.

I mean, they are polishing things like performance and adding difficulty sliders, things the community asked for and then complains about. I think their dev philosophy is usually "we'll get to it when we get to it" so I do think they might go back and tweak progression systems in the future.

But what will happen:

"that's all?! Where's the Deep North update? Why not do both at the same time? Modders are doing more than you! Dead game!!!!! *puts another 100 hours into Valheim*.

People complain no matter what. They may as well do what they want to do.

[Exodite-Dragon]

Originally posted by Cattastrafy:

Regardless of how good magic is when you get it out of the box, the replayability of this game would go through the roof for a lotta people if they gave us well tuned, early game magic AND made sure there's a weapon for each type at each tier instead of having all these missing spots.

What if I want to be a ferocious 2h axe wielder the entire game? Cool you get swamp and mountains to do it.

To be frank, I think it's a fool's errand to limit yourself to one type of weapon going through this game, and Valheim isn't alone in locking certain weapon types and attack options behind progression. Guns, scythes, greatswords, and certain classes of magic are all gated behind boss progression in V Rising, for example: you don't get to come out of the graveyard with a bone-made gun in your hands.

I don't think it ruins the experience there, anymore than not having my hands on a magic stick in the Meadows ruins Valheim, either.

And I'm sorry about this, but the replay value of the game for other people being predicated on the availability of a weapon type doesn't hold any water for me: I patently do not care.

[Cyseal]

Originally posted by Exodite-Dragon:

Originally posted by Cattastrafy:

Regardless of how good magic is when you get it out of the box, the replayability of this game would go through the roof for a lotta people if they gave us well tuned, early game magic AND made sure there's a weapon for each type at each tier instead of having all these missing spots.

What if I want to be a ferocious 2h axe wielder the entire game? Cool you get swamp and mountains to do it.

To be frank, I think it's a fool's errand to limit yourself to one type of weapon going through this game, and Valheim isn't alone in locking certain weapon types and attack options behind progression. Guns, scythes, greatswords, and certain classes of magic are all gated behind boss progression in V Rising, for example: you don't get to come out of the graveyard with a bone-made gun in your hands.

I don't think it ruins the experience there, anymore than not having my hands on a magic stick in the Meadows ruins Valheim, either.

And I'm sorry about this, but the replay value of the game for other people being predicated on the availability of a weapon type doesn't hold any water for me: I patently do not care.

I'd say that it's just kinda stupid game design to not let the player craft say, a flint two-handed axe. And since magic is prevalent in the world, it would be much better for the new players to get their hands on some minor magic at the start, to show them that there's all this cool stuff to wait for. Like a minor heal staff or something similar.

But, I get that they want to appease the most likely a majority, who just want new stuff for their existing worlds.

[knighttemplar1960]

They did include magic in the early game. You are just taking it for granted. Your forsaken power is "magic." Your fermenters make meads. The meads function as magic potions in any other game.

They could make an early wand that fires bolts but that would just be a reskinned bow and it wouldn't fit the Viking age theme that the early game tries to present. Viking magic was runes which were sacred (and didn't actually work) and charms that were usually made of iron unless your were rich enough to afford silver (that also didn't work). Any other magic was herbal, which isn't really magic.

[lumina]

So maybe make the Forsaken powers give a tiny amount of magic xp to start stacking it early.

[UncleAcidic]

I used to feel this way until I actually took the plunge and tried magic. the fact is that it's OP out of the box, so it doesn't need an earlier period in the game.
I did train both magics up to 30, just to make them a little more potent. not needed tho.
it was pretty funny having my skellies waste hordes of grey dwarfs while I build a house with their carcasses right in front of them

[Cyseal]

Originally posted by knighttemplar1960:

They did include magic in the early game. You are just taking it for granted. Your forsaken power is "magic." Your fermenters make meads. The meads function as magic potions in any other game.

They could make an early wand that fires bolts but that would just be a reskinned bow and it wouldn't fit the Viking age theme that the early game tries to present. Viking magic was runes which were sacred (and didn't actually work) and charms that were usually made of iron unless your were rich enough to afford silver (that also didn't work). Any other magic was herbal, which isn't really magic.

...The wands in Mistlands are just re-skinned bows by that logic as well. But they differ quite a bit from bows, they require different foods and they don't have ammunition and they have elements built in them.

Also; it's a game. The world has magic all around it and from a game development perspective, it's kinda stupid to not make the player acquainted with wands until most of the game is finished. Same is true for fist weapons as well.

[Exodite-Dragon]

Originally posted by Cyseal:

Originally posted by Exodite-Dragon:

To be frank, I think it's a fool's errand to limit yourself to one type of weapon going through this game, and Valheim isn't alone in locking certain weapon types and attack options behind progression. Guns, scythes, greatswords, and certain classes of magic are all gated behind boss progression in V Rising, for example: you don't get to come out of the graveyard with a bone-made gun in your hands.

I don't think it ruins the experience there, anymore than not having my hands on a magic stick in the Meadows ruins Valheim, either.

And I'm sorry about this, but the replay value of the game for other people being predicated on the availability of a weapon type doesn't hold any water for me: I patently do not care.

I'd say that it's just kinda stupid game design to not let the player craft say, a flint two-handed axe. And since magic is prevalent in the world, it would be much better for the new players to get their hands on some minor magic at the start, to show them that there's all this cool stuff to wait for. Like a minor heal staff or something similar.

But, I get that they want to appease the most likely a majority, who just want new stuff for their existing worlds.

There is always the possibility that they revisit early-to-mid game down the line. IIRC, devs have talked about continuing to patch things once Deep North is out, and while I understand that doesn't 'fill in the gaps' for you at the moment and is likely years away, don't give up hope just yet.

Whatever IG does, whether I agree with it personally or not, is what we will have in the future.

[knighttemplar1960]

Originally posted by Cyseal:

Originally posted by knighttemplar1960:

They did include magic in the early game. You are just taking it for granted. Your forsaken power is "magic." Your fermenters make meads. The meads function as magic potions in any other game.

They could make an early wand that fires bolts but that would just be a reskinned bow and it wouldn't fit the Viking age theme that the early game tries to present. Viking magic was runes which were sacred (and didn't actually work) and charms that were usually made of iron unless your were rich enough to afford silver (that also didn't work). Any other magic was herbal, which isn't really magic.

...The wands in Mistlands are just re-skinned bows by that logic as well. But they differ quite a bit from bows, they require different foods and they don't have ammunition and they have elements built in them.

Also; it's a game. The world has magic all around it and from a game development perspective, it's kinda stupid to not make the player acquainted with wands until most of the game is finished. Same is true for fist weapons as well.

The devs made a decision that eitr for magic isn't available until the Mistlands just like iron isn't available until the swamps. They could give you a wand in the meadows but you wouldn't be able to "load" it until Mistlands. The devs would have to revamp the entire early game. They could make yellow mushrooms give you eitr but it would be so little that you could only get one or 2 magic bolts in before it was depleted.

[Darksynapse]

Magic is extremely op and I don't see how they could add it to early game without making it super easy. Mistlands goes from hard to a cake walk once you get the fire staff and etir armor

[w.f.schepel]

Originally posted by Darksynapse:

Magic is extremely op and I don't see how they could add it to early game without making it super easy. Mistlands goes from hard to a cake walk once you get the fire staff and etir armor

This.