(Sincerely) Friendly Reminder That This Game Is Billed As A Challenging Title.

[Steve]

Hi! :D I've noticed since Ashlands came out that there's been an uptick in discussion on what Valheim should or shouldn't be. Same as Mistlands, pretty much, but yeah, Ashlands can be a little more brutal than Mistlands was to start so I understand a bit of the frustration. XD

While we're talking about potential changes and so on (early access is the best time to do that of course), let's keep in mind that this title is billed as:

Originally posted by Valheim Store Page game description:

A brutal exploration and survival game for 1-10 players, set in a procedurally-generated purgatory inspired by viking culture. Battle, build, and conquer your way to a saga worthy of Odin’s patronage!

So, with that in mind, maybe consider framing nerfs in the proper context. Like, I get the idea of lowering spawn rate/density, but maybe suggesting instead a spawn rate/density SLIDER so that the base game can be left as the challenge it's always been advertised as, instead of having to water down yet another promising challenge title.

I can't speak for anyone other than myself, but I love the challenge this game presents out of the box. I don't have to tweak anything for my playthroughs. To me, it's good and tough and rewarding with no modifications needed.

Isn't that what a challenging title should be as a base experience?

[Xhal]

They should scale spawns according to the number of players in the game.

Everyone saying it's easy are playing with other people, everyone saying its ridiculous are playing solo.

[Yuki]

Originally posted by Xhal:

They should scale spawns according to the number of players in the game.

Everyone saying it's easy are playing with other people, everyone saying its ridiculous are playing solo.

100%. A lot of people play singleplayer, which some people don't seem to understand. Dealing with a horde of enemies on your own is much harder, which Ashlands is notorious for. I'm all for challenge, that's what this game is about, but little regard is given to singleplayer with the Ashlands. Also we had the same outcry when Mistlands came out, but Mistlands wasn't really a issue imo.

[Mineralwasser]

Originally posted by Xhal:

They should scale spawns according to the number of players in the game.

Everyone saying it's easy are playing with other people, everyone saying its ridiculous are playing solo.

I am playing solo and i say it´s fine.

[Sardonic]

You'll be the minority on this one. I suggested siege mechanics back when Mistlands came out as part of a brainstorm post for the Ashlands update. Funny and cool how some of my ideas made it in. Of course I knew it'd be contentious as usual. The core audience for this game that plays non stop is uber casuals that don't like anything other than controlled encounters. No visibility handicap or swarm mechanics etc. They just can't be bothered with it. Takes away from their viking base builder simulator.

W/e, the difficulty settings are there to help make the biome brain dead so they can get back to base building or whatever it is they love so much. I do like your idea about adding a spawn slider though. One more thing they can crank down so we don't see these spam topics as much. At least until the next biome, where they'll find something else that's SO insurmountable and unacceptable for them it needs to change for everyone else too lol.

[Keldash_]

Originally posted by Xhal:

They should scale spawns according to the number of players in the game.

Everyone saying it's easy are playing with other people, everyone saying its ridiculous are playing solo.

Solo player here.

Ashland's is fine. It was toned down during the ptb to what it is now.

Plains fuling camps should have taught you on how to deal with hordes. The raid it unlocks literally says the horde is coming.

Sigh.

[Nerevar]

Originally posted by Xhal:

They should scale spawns according to the number of players in the game.

Everyone saying it's easy are playing with other people, everyone saying its ridiculous are playing solo.

completly made up false claim regarding the solo part. like. entirely made up.

[Nerevar]

Originally posted by Sardonic:

You'll be the minority on this one. I suggested siege mechanics back when Mistlands came out as part of a brainstorm post for the Ashlands update. Funny and cool how some of my ideas made it in. Of course I knew it'd be contentious as usual. The core audience for this game that plays non stop is uber casuals that don't like anything other than controlled encounters. No visibility handicap or swarm mechanics etc. They just can't be bothered with it. Takes away from their viking base builder simulator.

W/e, the difficulty settings are there to help make the biome brain dead so they can get back to base building or whatever it is they love so much. I do like your idea about adding a spawn slider though. One more thing they can crank down so we don't see these spam topics as much. At least until the next biome, where they'll find something else that's SO insurmountable and unacceptable for them it needs to change for everyone else too lol.

the core audience for this game is not casual players. never was. never will be. they just believe they are the core audience. its why the devs have been ignoreing thier angry rants for the most part. the core audience for valheim original was more dedicated players and alot of the gameplay stuff reflects that still be the case now.

it was never meant to become an insanely popular mainstream casual game.

its why the settings got added and the defaults where left mostly unchanged so these people would stop ranting and just lower thier settings even the devs said so regarding ashlands in thier new post. yet you still see an entitled minority asking for the defaults to bend over to them aswell.

[HangarPilot]

Originally posted by Nerevar:

...
the core audience for this game is not casual players. never was. never will be. they just believe they are the core audience. its why the devs have been ignoreing thier angry rants for the most part. the core audience for valheim original was more dedicated players and alot of the gameplay stuff reflects that still be the case now.

it was never meant to become an insanely popular mainstream casual game.

its why the settings got added and the defaults where left mostly unchanged so these people would stop ranting and just lower thier settings even the devs said so regarding ashlands in thier new post. yet you still see an entitled minority asking for the defaults to bend over to them aswell.

Nailed it. As one of the "uber casuals" I accept that I'm not the target audience. I love many parts of the game and for the areas that rub me the wrong why ... world modifiers ... problem solved.

And YES, Ashlands is manageable solo even for an "uber casual" using tactics you should have already learned ... slow and easy, destroy spawners, be mindful of your noise, stay situationally aware so you don't get yeeted into the lava!

[NZ.Zero]

Originally posted by HangarPilot:

Nailed it. As one of the "uber casuals" I accept that I'm not the target audience.

Regardless of what the devs think the game is for, they do need to account for the actual userbase, thats just basic usability. Doesnt mean they need to do what those users say, of course, but those users experience needs to be managed too.

[HangarPilot]

Originally posted by NZ.Zero:

Originally posted by HangarPilot:

Nailed it. As one of the "uber casuals" I accept that I'm not the target audience.

Regardless of what the devs think the game is for, they do need to account for the actual userbase, thats just basic usability. Doesnt mean they need to do what those users say, of course, but those users experience needs to be managed too.

I think they have to a reasonable degree. I lobbied for difficulty settings because allowing casual players to "tone it down" hurts no one. The general response seemed to be "maybe after full release."

The Mistlands generated a lot of additional requests along those lines and "world modifiers" was born some time later. Interestingly, the don't only allow players to LOWER difficulty/grind but INCREASE it as well.

With everyone now able to create the experience they want ... I just don't understand why there are still so many arguments over "normal" being too hard or too easy. I mean, nobody complains the music is too loud ... they just go into the settings adjust the music volume slider. Yet somehow the idea of needing to turn down the difficulty slider means the game is "broken" or "unbalanced"...

[Steve]

Originally posted by HangarPilot:

I think they have to a reasonable degree. I lobbied for difficulty settings because allowing casual players to "tone it down" hurts no one. The general response seemed to be "maybe after full release."

The Mistlands generated a lot of additional requests along those lines and "world modifiers" was born some time later. Interestingly, the don't only allow players to LOWER difficulty/grind but INCREASE it as well.

With everyone now able to create the experience they want ... I just don't understand why there are still so many arguments over "normal" being too hard or too easy. I mean, nobody complains the music is too loud ... they just go into the settings adjust the music volume slider. Yet somehow the idea of needing to turn down the difficulty slider means the game is "broken" or "unbalanced"...

I fully agree with this. The tools are starting to come together for a WIDE variety of skillsets and playstyles to tailor their play to their own tastes. There aren't too many games that offer this kind of freedom and quality of experience at the price point that's being offered.

[{O|G} Erik the Red]

Ashlands is the 7th biome. Anyone who has played Valheim this far, is likely by design, no longer just casually playing, it takes hours and days just to get to a point to experience this content. Ashlands is literally one of two "ends of the earth" biomes of Valheim, the other being Deep North, and as far as we know, is essentially a beginning part of the endgame. Anyone who has made it this far should know by now the formula of progression... and what to expect given the hints from the birds Hugin and Mugin. The biomes themselves typically have had some level of difficulty in their identity as a feature (Swamps had the wet debuff, Mountains were freezing cold, Mistlands has obscuring mist, and Ashlands has War.). The increased spawn rates in Ashlands is clearly a design choice as part of the biome, and players should be able to accept and rise to the challenge, and then, overcome... Such is the nature of difficulty in any game with linear progression, and yet only a few select do make it thus far.

[Long Dead Fingers]

Giving us the world modifiers was a great move by Iron Gate, imo.

Although I don't mind the high spawn rates in Ashlands myself, it wouldn't bother me in the least if a slider were added for adjusting them a bit.

Same for mist in mistlands. I enjoy the biome as is, but am weary of all the hate it receives. If all it would take is a slider for wisplight/torch radius to bring peace and calm to all the folks who don't know how to deal with it (or do but still hate it), I can't see how it would hurt the game, provided the defaults remain what they are.

[WuffWabbit]

It is absolutely grueling starting out in the Ashlands. Being as max prepared as you can be is the bare minimum. You'll spend your time right up until you have to fight the boss there SUFFERING. You'll not notice it get easier until you have maxed gear and weapons plus at least 30 hours fighting the mobs.

Once you pass these milestones, nothing will be a challenge anymore. It does get easier, just like all the other zones.