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In the Meadows, you find that you can read runes (and probably write them) and you are able to create your first magic weapon - the Stagbreaker.
In the Black Forest, you discover how to make magical meads both to protect and restore. You also find that you can create a second magic item, the Bone Shield. You discover how to make portals and wards using runic magic.
Enhancements of those forms of magic continue through up until Mistlands. Prior to Mistlands blatent magic only existed in the hands of your enemies. Eikthyr's lightning, the greydwarf shaman's poison and healing. Surtlings throwing fireballs. The theme continued on.
Mistlands would've been the perfect place to further the Viking/Nordic magic theme, in fact that theme does continue but it is overshadows by the blatent adoption of modern video game 'MAGIC'. Really really sad.
I think the devs got so enamored by one or more of their new hires that they just threw out their previous vision of Mistlands for an all 'new shiny' version that took forever to make. I fear that will continue, we'll just see more blatant ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ as the later biomes are rolled out.
Forget the Viking theme, its the new Harry Potter theme.
My hypothesis is that they added magic because they were creatively stuck.
They didn't know what to do with the mechanics they had: health/stamina and workstation+upgrades.
They kept adding new food to increase health and stamina, and then what?
They had the workbench with upgrades, then the forge with upgrades, then they managed to add a *black* forge with upgrades, and then what?
So they added magic to introduce a new meter, they started over a new type of food and introduced yet another workstation with upgrades.
I have had similar thoughts. There are so many things that you would think would take priority over what they have been doing...I don't understand leaving the Ocean biome completely unfinished with no urgent plans on working on it. It is the largest biome in the game and by design you are supposed to spend countless hours sailing through it, they went so far as to restrict portal transport of materials to force you into this completely empty play space. It's definitely not just this game, but you really wonder if the people making the games these days even bother to try personally playing their product or if its just all theory crafting.
I totally agree with you: I've had lots of fun in this game prior to the Mistlands update, now I cannot be bothered to even load this game anymore.
My role-playing survival game ruined by the 'no fun allowed police'.
Large insect enemies, Western magic, the horrendous stamina interaction with the broken, jagged terrain, all of it.
It ABSOLUTELY feels like they brought on a number of new people who threw off the balance of creative vision and persuaded them into the swerve from the established theme.
Now; they did say that Mistlands will be a one-off and the last 3 Biomes (Ashlands, Deep North, and Oceans) will follow the rest of the game's overall tone more closely.
Let's hope.
Without prejudice, but you can absolutely feel how the fun wears off - again. It doesn't disappear completely, but Mistlands feels more like a mod that doesn't really belong. The enthusiasm that flows through my veins throughout the game stops at this point or slowly fades the deeper I get into the foggy areas.
A visually beautiful biome, but a break in style from a low-fantasy to a high-fantasy setting. Many casual elements squeezed into a hardcore survival game that weren't needed.
Unlike many others, I'm a friend of the idea of the whisplight and the fog. Really, that is a very cool idea in the first place! Though... the implementation could have been done a lot better. And it has already been suggested several times that the Whisplight, for example, should be upgradeable. Or some other mechanism for "getting over" the fog as you unlock progress.
Secondly, I miss the spider setting. A lot. Would feel much creepier and more epic in combination with the fog. That's pure subjective - I know, I just like spider enemys. But I also like the bugs meanwhile. It's okay for me. Ants are cool too.
But the biggest point of criticism - by far - and what sends away the fun with lightspeed is the progression cycle of the entire biome. Especially in direct comparison to the previews biomes.
I'm now back at the end of Mistlands, build a black marble ziggurat, I've just found the last cores, my crates are overflowing with items from the biome and I'm still in full Plains gear except for the spear. Simple because I can't craft it. And I really pushed it slow this time, tried to enjoy the biome without time limit. Now - with the cores from the last Infested mine I'm starting to process all the resin. In principle, I'm now gearing up just for the boss and future Ashlands.
The feathercape should be unlocked at the beginning of the Mistlands biome. Similar to the Mountains, the first thing you craft there is a cold-resistant armor/cloak. It just doesn't matches right that it's the last thing you obtain if you follow the logical crafting cycle from the previews biomes.
To unlock this cape at the beginning of the biome or with the first/second items you bring home. That feature alone would have prevented a lot of annoyance from players, because they would have been given something to make the unusual and unstatisfying pathing in the beginning of mistlands turned to fun.
Overall, with every other biome, you have the feeling that you slowly gear up and conquer the place and don't have to pick up everything until you are virtually through with this whole section.
In Mistlands you never get that feeling from "oh ♥♥♥♥ I'm screwed" to "this place is now mine". One of the main factors Valheim is such a genius game and they didn't catched up this one in Mistlands. That's really sad. Heartbreaking.
If I had to bet on something, I would go all in that the game was ready (every initial idea was finished) at the time of the early access release. Everything feels smooth until the end of Plains. And everything beyond that feels modded. That already started with Hearth and Home.
As if all the content that came after the main early access release was a tumor that grew out of the main cell, dividing uncontrollably, but had been chriurgically polished with lots of costs to make it look prettier than the actual main cell. Which is a farce.
My 5 cents...
Regards
so yeah. they did precisely that. majority of players still likes mistlands as of current. could it see some smaller improvements? for certain. but so could any biome when you think about it.
the ocean update is STILL planned btw tc. the latest devstream they even talked about it WHILE playing thier own game. its just that ashlands is next for now. and its getting close as we speak. sadly not 2023 anymore probaly but should be not long afterwards into the new year given the current progress on it.
most people here have never provided good arguments againist mistlands aside "its not fun" which is just THIER PERSONAL viewpoint of what fun is. but since your fun isnt shared by everyone thats the same as saying "i dont like it" which is fine to say. but that is not an argument for changes AT ALL. in fact its the opposite.
the terrian is fine. totally fine actually. this is a skill issue of players and nothing else. they are unable to adapt to the new biomes enviroment. youll see similar complains again about whats gonna make ashlands difficult to explore. if anything the plains was too easy. devs have said biomes are supposed to get harder and more difficult as you go. mitlands fits with that mindset. so will ashlands.
now whats a realistic improvement they could do at some point? better whisp torches that cost more resources but cover a bigger area.
upgrade levels for the whisp to uncover a bigger area. but at most twice as wide.
they recent devstream they actually talk about the mist aswell. and why they did it the way they did. go watch it. maybe you get the idea.
here : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elNUhfpF2Hc&t=1s
I mentioned the two most common ones in my post above:
a) The progression flow is practically non-existent
b) The art design and combat mechanics with new magic elements went from a low-fantasy to a high-fantasy setting
Both points are objectively valid compared to the preview stages you've had access to since release.
Both are serious changes that can take the fun out of the game for players who liked the previous game for this very reason.
No offense. I just want to point out that Mistlands changes the way some of the core elements/mechanics of the game worked before. It's not about one detail, the fog or the difficulty level. The progression flow is an abstract core element and it works completely differently in Mistlands, for example. Now you collect everything to craft it at the end of the biome. But if you have crafted everything, you don't need to visit places for collecting anymore. Unless you want to go for a walk in Mistlands for no reason. That's what you liked to do in the earlier biomes, because you saw something and it felt like a vacation.
And that the game has changed at its core is an objective fact.
It's subjective whether you like the changes or not, but you can't deny facts.
One thing I suspect is that Valheim likes to "torture" players as an element, but at the same time reward them extremely. That players didn't grumble before Mistlands because the reward was simply "worth it".
Taking this idea a step further, I believe that players are now complaining about details that were previously rewarded by the very good progression system, for example. And by removing or changing such a core element, suddenly "a drop on the ground becomes a lake of mud". Simply because of the lack of reward flow.
When you are rewarded, you do not perceive the torture as such, but as the satisfaction of your ability to succeed.
When the reward is removed, all that remains is torture...
The problem now is that players are complaining about torture, which has always been a core component of Valheim.
I don't think Valheim should stop torturing us, but the reward has to come back.
Just take my example from above and assume that as one little change you would unlock the Feathercape nearly at the beginning of Mistlands. The torture of climbing over the cliffs in fog would be blown away in exchange from a reward of a new element to having fun by mastering the ability to glide as you progress deeper into the land of mist.
My personal guess would be in this region:
Only the refinery should require black cores that produce Eitr. In turn, only 1-2 cores should drop per dungeon. The Blacksmith and Galdr Table should only require Sap to be built. Armor pieces and the Feather Cape should be immediately accessible, the magic weapons and at least two of the forge/workbench-upgrades should be unlocked behind Eitr.
That would be 3-4 changes that would improve the progression flow immensely. I would also allow to use Eitr for upgrading the whisperlight a bit.
If they fixed something like that, Mistland would be a nice biome. Even with the change of magic and high-fantasy setting, if that's the way they want to go. Mistland itself is visually beautiful, and it can be fun and visually stunning to build an outpost under a bell of mist with the wisp torches. The problem isn't the habitat itself.
In your opinion, or do you have objective proof of this statement?
I do know that among my gaming friends, most of whom played and liked Valheim enough to recommend to others, none other than myself have returned to even try playing since Mistlands. None of them recommend Valheim to others these days.
Honestly, I never come up with those complaints, and I visit this forum regularly. Oh well...
The two most common I heard are the mist and the terrain design. While I don't mind the former (I got used to it, the same as I used to being wet in swamps all the time), the latter is an absolute PAIN. How devs came up with an idea of a mountain type biom while NO climbing mechanics whatsoever? It creates multiple problems that make Mistlands very exhausting (problem with stamina management, problem with fighting enemies on uneven terrain, VERY uncomfortable gameplay via keyboard etc).
Now about your complaints.
Personally, I don't mind progressing to hight fantasy. For me it was rather to be expected. It's Viking afterlife. I have already met and fought many fantastic creatures, built strange structures, fought undead and dragons. The two next bioms seem to be based on Muspelheim and Nifilheim, a rather high fantasy to me. However, I can understand that some people might not like it.
The first argument I mostly disagree with, but also slightly agree. The biom progress is, in my opinion the best we have so far. Before Mistlands, progression usually was simple: kill mobs to get new stuff, find metal to build new stuff, find boss altar, do a fetch quest to spawn boss.
In mistlands theese things are still present, but are more structured. In order to enter Queens lair I don't just bring "x" number of "y" item. I need a key. In order to make that key I need to build new structure, but that require new resources. That resources can be made only by other tool that is created in a different structure. Evenmore, the last one need another resource available only in some places. All that creates a sort of questline, a path that needs to be taken to progress. It is the first biom I did't have a feeling of "one hour and I've seen everything".
HOWEVER, one thing I do agree is the new equipment being unlocked too late. There is indeed a feeling that most new armor, weapons, magic are late biom content. Feather Cape is a good example. I myself managed to discover all the new places and enemies before making first new weapon and armor. Some of these should be available already with black forge, and maybe upgrading it to higher levels should require other work stations and resources. New stuff from Mistland biom should help player to complete it, not only to finish it.
And I said late magic because magic is present from the start of the game: we summon the Forsaken and sacrifice them to steal their powers right from the start, we make magic portals very early and we use some of their remains as magical tools,starting with Bonemass. The Mistlands simply make the trickle of magic into a small stream thanks to what's left of Yggdrasil in Valheim. And even that is not abundant or lasting, since we must renew our magical energy with regularity.
Just like someone stated on a random yt short. "i did overtime for 2 years at blizz working on sc2 wings of liberty, and the very first 15$ mount for WoW made more money than that game. It's crazy, a 15$ mount made more money than the whole of the game. Now SC2 has microtransactions." So they should get on that and actual multiplayer. actual actual.
none of what you said is an objective fact. just saying. its just the way YOU view the things. and "end of the biome" progression. yeah right. and no reaosn to revisit. yeah right. straight outa the mouth of someone who has not useing black marble for building. it provides a constant reason to go back and get more of it. i spend more time in the mistlands than any other biome due to that alone.
i will agree on unlocking the cape a bit sooner would be nice but not right away. it felt EARNED when i got it. and given how powerful it is the effort to get it is fully justified. but ONLY the cape. not anything else.
the core gameplay didnt change. the core aspect didnt change.
the only thing mistlands is missing compared to lets say black forest progression is a METAL that you have to farm slowly. thats it. you even get the cauldron upgrade right away.
but in bf you also had to go into the dungeons first before you got ANY reward out of them. you couldnt make a forge or craft anything with it without getting surtling cores first. mistlands progression works the same way. its just more difficult. and instead of copper ore you harvest giant skulls for tissue. the only thing that was left out is metal transport. for a reason.
and the end of a biome is the boss fight. not getting the gear mind you.
so yeah. none of what you claimed is actually the case here. you just dont see it. the progression works the same as bf did. just more difficult.
the asthetics and design part is something you can call out for sure. but asthetics and design is well.. subjective by nature aswell. you may not like it. others will. goal achieved given what the devs said they wanted to accomplish.
given ashlands is the land of the literal dead and valheim always beeing a fantasy game (you fight literal undead in a swamp) and giant walking tree monsters and dragons exsist here.
thats not a good method to judge something. simply look at the steam reviews total. if mistlands was disliked by the majority the game wouldnt be sitting at 95% reviews still by this point in time. yet it does. end of story. thats a way better metric than "my friends dont like it" as your friends are not even 10 people probaly. thats a tiny sample size and means nothing for such things. when any game does something bad or stupid its reviews DROP. so apparently that aint the case. people who disliked mistlands arent in the majority. otherwise they would have done alot more changes. they didnt.