Megingjord & Carts

[Kerbaforth]

Should Megingjord also have a second passive to help pull carts with heavy materials quicker then what we have right now? Make it easier to go up hills? (Not sure how they would put that into the game though). Just food for thought.

[umop-apisdn]

Shift-click with the hoe to flatten areas at an angle instead of making level ground "stairsteps", and use switchbacks to go up steep inclines (like real roads do).

[Kerbaforth]

at a certain point i dont want to level the whole side of a mountain, i would like a path going up the hill and be able to pull up to the top of an area

[umop-apisdn]

I get where you're coming from, but... physics.

When pulling a trailer, even a truck designed to do so has grade restrictions and isn't typically able to haul on a slope higher than a 10% grade (and even that <6 degree slope is considered "extreme"); the principle of the inclined plane says lowering the angle of motion decreases the work* required to lift an object.

Far from "leveling the whole side of a mountain", you're just making roads that are actually traversable under load.

If it's that big a deal, just fill your inventory, jump on a saddled (and tamed) lox, and go wherever you want at full speed.

* by which I mean the scientific definition of "work", measured in joules (ie, one newton per meter, approximately 0.7377 foot-pounds).

[knighttemplar1960]

Originally posted by umop-apisdn:

I get where you're coming from, but... physics.

When pulling a trailer, even a truck designed to do so has grade restrictions and isn't typically able to haul on a slope higher than a 10% grade (and even that <6 degree slope is considered "extreme"); the principle of the inclined plane says lowering the angle of motion decreases the work* required to lift an object.

Far from "leveling the whole side of a mountain", you're just making roads that are actually traversable under load.

If it's that big a deal, just fill your inventory, jump on a saddled (and tamed) lox, and go wherever you want at full speed.

* by which I mean the scientific definition of "work", measured in joules (ie, one newton per meter, approximately 0.7377 foot-pounds).

Indeed. That's why the Union Pacific railroad spent a LOT of money on a survey going through the Rocky Mountains. No place they laid rails in that area has a grade greater than 2 degrees. That's why the Moffat Tunnel goes under the continental divide where it does and why the Big 10 Curve coming out of the Denver station goes around in a 270 degree arc as it begins the climb into the mountains. This allows the California Zephyr to travel at 55 MPH through the mountains though they limit the speed to 30-35 MPH because of winds and they have welded concrete filled rail cars to the sidings as wind breaks in the worst windswept areas.

@OP You can haul about twice your total carry weight up a 26 degree slope with the cart (the slope of wooden and stone stairs). You'll have to alternate between sprinting and walking to get over any rough patches.

The purpose of the cart isn't to go up and down hills. It designed to go from shore to shore between hills so you can go across a small amount of land instead of sailing all the way around all or part of an island or to go from your dock to your smelter. The devs try to keep realism for immersive purposes where they can. Its even possible to build small bridges across the small rivers. Some creativity and exposed boulders can allow you to build a bridge across a large river.

If you are wanting to move large amounts of silver ore down from the mountains you can take the materials to build a cart up with you, build the cart, fill it with silver, push the cart over the side of the mountain then go down and pick up the broken bits of the cart and the crates of silver, rebuild the cart, and then go from the foothills to your destination.

Alternatively you can build a portal at the top of the mountain that connects to a portal at the bottom of the mountain, chuck the ore over the edge, portal down and pick it up, then keep going to the shore where you parked your long boat.

[Emelio Lizardo]

Tunnels.

[sinjamin]

Originally posted by knighttemplar1960:

Originally posted by umop-apisdn:

I get where you're coming from, but... physics.

When pulling a trailer, even a truck designed to do so has grade restrictions and isn't typically able to haul on a slope higher than a 10% grade (and even that <6 degree slope is considered "extreme"); the principle of the inclined plane says lowering the angle of motion decreases the work* required to lift an object.

Far from "leveling the whole side of a mountain", you're just making roads that are actually traversable under load.

If it's that big a deal, just fill your inventory, jump on a saddled (and tamed) lox, and go wherever you want at full speed.

* by which I mean the scientific definition of "work", measured in joules (ie, one newton per meter, approximately 0.7377 foot-pounds).

Indeed. That's why the Union Pacific railroad spent a LOT of money on a survey going through the Rocky Mountains. No place they laid rails in that area has a grade greater than 2 degrees. That's why the Moffat Tunnel goes under the continental divide where it does and why the Big 10 Curve coming out of the Denver station goes around in a 270 degree arc as it begins the climb into the mountains. This allows the California Zephyr to travel at 55 MPH through the mountains though they limit the speed to 30-35 MPH because of winds and they have welded concrete filled rail cars to the sidings as wind breaks in the worst windswept areas.

@OP You can haul about twice your total carry weight up a 26 degree slope with the cart (the slope of wooden and stone stairs). You'll have to alternate between sprinting and walking to get over any rough patches.

The purpose of the cart isn't to go up and down hills. It designed to go from shore to shore between hills so you can go across a small amount of land instead of sailing all the way around all or part of an island or to go from your dock to your smelter. The devs try to keep realism for immersive purposes where they can. Its even possible to build small bridges across the small rivers. Some creativity and exposed boulders can allow you to build a bridge across a large river.

If you are wanting to move large amounts of silver ore down from the mountains you can take the materials to build a cart up with you, build the cart, fill it with silver, push the cart over the side of the mountain then go down and pick up the broken bits of the cart and the crates of silver, rebuild the cart, and then go from the foothills to your destination.

Alternatively you can build a portal at the top of the mountain that connects to a portal at the bottom of the mountain, chuck the ore over the edge, portal down and pick it up, then keep going to the shore where you parked your long boat.

its a video game, theres nothing realistic about it, surely a belt that gives the wearer super strength would also effect the cart aswell

[umop-apisdn]

Originally posted by sinjamin:

its a video game, theres nothing realistic about it, surely a belt that gives the wearer super strength would also effect the cart aswell

No, it wouldn't.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/affect-vs-effect-usage-difference

Pedantry aside, you're confusing realism with physics.

It's not that there's nothing realistic about the game; we can wield fiery swords while fighting ice dragons, none of which is at all realistic... but there are rules.

There's a physics system in play; it operates by rules. Gravity presses downward at a specific rate, things weigh a certain amount, and those two facts alone mean that hauling a heavy load uphill is... well, slower and more difficult than hauling on a level field; the physics system says so.

First, let's get the weight units correct so we have an idea of what we're talking about; according to this post, it seems reasonable to assume that the unit of weight being used is the môrk; 216 grams, or just under a half-pound.

Therefore, assuming that Valheim is using merkur (the plural of môrk) as the weight units, the 300 merkur that a naked character can carry is about 65 kg, or 143 pounds. The Megingjord increases the carry weight by 150, bringing the total to 450 merkur (roughly 97 kg, or 214 pounds). Note: that's carry weight, not dead lift. You might be able to pick up a refrigerator, but you're certainly not going to sling it on your shoulder and take off running cross-country with it... and that's roughly the amount of weight we're talking about, here, and what our characters can do with it.

Magic belts aside, let's see how much weight is on this cart. There are 18 slots in a cart, each of which can hold a stack of "insert item here". Let's assume you've had a really good run through a few crypts and you have 10 stacks of Iron, already smelted up and ready for transport home.

Iron weighs 12 merkur per bar, so a stack of 30 bars weighs 360 merkur. This is already more than a character can carry without the Megingjord, but it's on the cart. There are 10 stacks, so we have a total of 3600 merkur... roughly 776 kg, or 1711 pounds. That's about the curb weight of a Mazda 121[en.wikipedia.org]... and that's not counting whatever the cart itself weighs. Another 220 kg (485 pounds) doesn't seem too unreasonable for something capable of supporting that much weight, so all in, we're looking at dragging a literal ton across muddy, rocky, hilly terrain (no asphalt or concrete in this fantasy realm).

If we were going for realism, I'd tell you to go drag a compact car around the block, never mind up even a slight incline, and tell us how fun and easy that was. For that matter, I challenge you to put a half-dozen concrete blocks in a child's Red Rider wagon, and drag that down to the pub or convenience store at the end of the block and back; then come back and tell us how you think you should be allowed to drag a literal one-ton cart up a grassy (at best) incline at a run... without breaking a sweat.

[sinjamin]

Originally posted by umop-apisdn:

Originally posted by sinjamin:

its a video game, theres nothing realistic about it, surely a belt that gives the wearer super strength would also effect the cart aswell

No, it wouldn't.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/affect-vs-effect-usage-difference

Pedantry aside, you're confusing realism with physics.

It's not that there's nothing realistic about the game; we can wield fiery swords while fighting ice dragons, none of which is at all realistic... but there are rules.

There's a physics system in play; it operates by rules. Gravity presses downward at a specific rate, things weigh a certain amount, and those two facts alone mean that hauling a heavy load uphill is... well, slower and more difficult than hauling on a level field; the physics system says so.

First, let's get the weight units correct so we have an idea of what we're talking about; according to this post, it seems reasonable to assume that the unit of weight being used is the môrk; 216 grams, or just under a half-pound.

Therefore, assuming that Valheim is using merkur (the plural of môrk) as the weight units, the 300 merkur that a naked character can carry is about 65 kg, or 143 pounds. The Megingjord increases the carry weight by 150, bringing the total to 450 merkur (roughly 97 kg, or 214 pounds). Note: that's carry weight, not dead lift. You might be able to pick up a refrigerator, but you're certainly not going to sling it on your shoulder and take off running cross-country with it... and that's roughly the amount of weight we're talking about, here, and what our characters can do with it.

Magic belts aside, let's see how much weight is on this cart. There are 18 slots in a cart, each of which can hold a stack of "insert item here". Let's assume you've had a really good run through a few crypts and you have 10 stacks of Iron, already smelted up and ready for transport home.

Iron weighs 12 merkur per bar, so a stack of 30 bars weighs 360 merkur. This is already more than a character can carry without the Megingjord, but it's on the cart. There are 10 stacks, so we have a total of 3600 merkur... roughly 776 kg, or 1711 pounds. That's about the curb weight of a Mazda 121[en.wikipedia.org]... and that's not counting whatever the cart itself weighs. Another 220 kg (485 pounds) doesn't seem too unreasonable for something capable of supporting that much weight, so all in, we're looking at dragging a literal ton across muddy, rocky, hilly terrain (no asphalt or concrete in this fantasy realm).

If we were going for realism, I'd tell you to go drag a compact car around the block, never mind up even a slight incline, and tell us how fun and easy that was. For that matter, I challenge you to put a half-dozen concrete blocks in a child's Red Rider wagon, and drag that down to the pub or convenience store at the end of the block and back; then come back and tell us how you think you should be allowed to drag a literal one-ton cart up a grassy (at best) incline at a run... without breaking a sweat.

i cant even take you seriously, correcting my grammar on the internet?? it's a steam forum post man, get over yourself. video games are supposed to be fun, if you want harsh realistic survival then go play SCUM, this is a mythical epic viking game, theres no 'realism' its all mythology and entertainment

[umop-apisdn]

Originally posted by sinjamin:

i cant even take you seriously, correcting my grammar on the internet??

In all fairness, those are two different words.
They have different meanings (effect is a noun meaning "consequence" or "end result", where affect is a verb meaning "to influence or manipulate").

In German, the English word "effect" translates as "Wirkung". "Affect", on the other hand, translates as "beeinträchtigen".

They're not synonyms, homonyms, or even the same parts of speech, and they're certainly not interchangeable. If you had read the article I linked in my comment, you would understand this.

Originally posted by sinjamin:

if you want harsh realistic survival then go play SCUM, this is a mythical epic viking game, theres no 'realism' its all mythology and entertainment

You're still conflating "is realistic" with "has rules governing its behavior".

[Keldash_]

Originally posted by umop-apisdn:

Originally posted by sinjamin:

its a video game, theres nothing realistic about it, surely a belt that gives the wearer super strength would also effect the cart aswell

No, it wouldn't.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/affect-vs-effect-usage-difference

Pedantry aside, you're confusing realism with physics.

It's not that there's nothing realistic about the game; we can wield fiery swords while fighting ice dragons, none of which is at all realistic... but there are rules.

There's a physics system in play; it operates by rules. Gravity presses downward at a specific rate, things weigh a certain amount, and those two facts alone mean that hauling a heavy load uphill is... well, slower and more difficult than hauling on a level field; the physics system says so.

First, let's get the weight units correct so we have an idea of what we're talking about; according to this post, it seems reasonable to assume that the unit of weight being used is the môrk; 216 grams, or just under a half-pound.

Therefore, assuming that Valheim is using merkur (the plural of môrk) as the weight units, the 300 merkur that a naked character can carry is about 65 kg, or 143 pounds. The Megingjord increases the carry weight by 150, bringing the total to 450 merkur (roughly 97 kg, or 214 pounds). Note: that's carry weight, not dead lift. You might be able to pick up a refrigerator, but you're certainly not going to sling it on your shoulder and take off running cross-country with it... and that's roughly the amount of weight we're talking about, here, and what our characters can do with it.

Magic belts aside, let's see how much weight is on this cart. There are 18 slots in a cart, each of which can hold a stack of "insert item here". Let's assume you've had a really good run through a few crypts and you have 10 stacks of Iron, already smelted up and ready for transport home.

Iron weighs 12 merkur per bar, so a stack of 30 bars weighs 360 merkur. This is already more than a character can carry without the Megingjord, but it's on the cart. There are 10 stacks, so we have a total of 3600 merkur... roughly 776 kg, or 1711 pounds. That's about the curb weight of a Mazda 121[en.wikipedia.org]... and that's not counting whatever the cart itself weighs. Another 220 kg (485 pounds) doesn't seem too unreasonable for something capable of supporting that much weight, so all in, we're looking at dragging a literal ton across muddy, rocky, hilly terrain (no asphalt or concrete in this fantasy realm).

If we were going for realism, I'd tell you to go drag a compact car around the block, never mind up even a slight incline, and tell us how fun and easy that was. For that matter, I challenge you to put a half-dozen concrete blocks in a child's Red Rider wagon, and drag that down to the pub or convenience store at the end of the block and back; then come back and tell us how you think you should be allowed to drag a literal one-ton cart up a grassy (at best) incline at a run... without breaking a sweat.

Loved this breakdown on carts for valheim, Thank you. Instant gratification is never good

[sarteck]

Let's keep it realistic. Putting 449 lbs. of cargo in the cart slows you down, but if you have it on you with a magic belt instead of in the cart, you can run faster.

Physics, beyotch.

[knighttemplar1960]

Originally posted by sinjamin:

i cant even take you seriously, correcting my grammar on the internet?? it's a steam forum post man, get over yourself. video games are supposed to be fun, if you want harsh realistic survival then go play SCUM, this is a mythical epic viking game, theres no 'realism' its all mythology and entertainment

If you change it too much its not Vikings any more. It might be Middle Earth instead but we all ready have lore for that.

[Bored Peon]

Originally posted by Kerbaforth:

at a certain point i dont want to level the whole side of a mountain, i would like a path going up the hill and be able to pull up to the top of an area

Originally posted by umop-apisdn:

Far from "leveling the whole side of a mountain", you're just making roads that are actually traversable under load.

I think what the OP is getting at is the fact making sloping roads you keep getting a "wrinkle" somewhere in your sloping road then you have to push it up or down effectively having to redo the entire slope.
So then when you push the wrinkle it can effectively screw up your switchback points.

Originally posted by sarteck:

Let's keep it realistic. Putting 449 lbs. of cargo in the cart slows you down, but if you have it on you with a magic belt instead of in the cart, you can run faster.

Physics, beyotch.

LOL. You forgot you can also swim just the same with that 450 lbs on you.

4000lb silver cart, know what I did? I kicked it down the mountainside and said @#$% building a road. What is the absolute worst that can happen?
My cart breaks and I have to rebuild it with the surviving parts and collect up the boxes?
It lands upside down and I smash it and rebuild it?
It survives all the way down and I have to go repair it?

Sometimes the easiest solution is the simplest. While it may not be realistic, but if the game was realistic it would let me build at X grade without have to run back and forth to redo a dozen times. Better yet get a rope and pulley and use it as an assist or just build a damn crane.

[Eradan]

Originally posted by Bored Peon:

I think what the OP is getting at is the fact making sloping roads you keep getting a "wrinkle" somewhere in your sloping road then you have to push it up or down effectively having to redo the entire slope.
So then when you push the wrinkle it can effectively screw up your switchback points.

Protip: you can go past any wrinkle one wheel at a time.

[Bored Peon]

Originally posted by Eradan:

Originally posted by Bored Peon:

I think what the OP is getting at is the fact making sloping roads you keep getting a "wrinkle" somewhere in your sloping road then you have to push it up or down effectively having to redo the entire slope.
So then when you push the wrinkle it can effectively screw up your switchback points.

Protip: you can go past any wrinkle one wheel at a time.

I meant wrinkle as in the slope is too different and you cannot get any cart with a lot of weight up it.