Abyssal razor vs bronze sword

[Valithin Drathyr]

So which one is supposed to better? I've heard the abyssal razor is better than bronze without having to get iron. But my bronze sword seems to be better at +2 than the razor.

[Grim]

I think the Razor is. You have to factor in everything. Speed, weight, stagger damage, backstab multiplier etc.

[Pantstron]

Razor baby, oh yeah, quick , stun locking, high damage stagger/sneak. In that respect copper knife is also better then bronze sword lol

[Faceplant]

I just melted a 2* draugr with a razor. Didn't even realize he was starred until I started hitting him, and he had no chance.

[Xea]

the razor is tiered as an iron age weapon, so yes it is better than bronze... to make the best use of daggers in general one should probably utilize their high backstab multiplier though

[Faceplant]

The backstab modifier is great, but in my experience there's very little opportunities to use it. It's fun to use on a lox, but make sure you're able to get away from his buddies in time if you need to use it.

Other than having fun with loxes, what would you use it on? It's overkill for most things. A simple parry followed by a triple combo will take down most anything that's anywhere near your league.

The key is making sure you have enough stamina to complete the combo (if necessary) and/or ensuring that you're not fighting multiple stronger enemies, since you can only fight one at a time. Since it doesn't take much stamina, the stamina part is fairly easy.

That reminds me. I have a game that's waiting for me to try a backstab on a 2* berzerker with skoll and hati. That should be fun!

[avatar.zero]

Even without discussing the massive difference in backstab multipliers (which is likely only going to apply once to a given creature in a given battle - there is a 5 minute cooldown on backstabs per creature), the two are completely different in how they deliver damage.

The Bronze Sword is a purely Slashing damage weapon. While there aren't a whole lot of enemies that are resistant to Slashing, I also can't immediately think of any that are weak to it, either.

The Abyssal Razor, like all knives, does both Slashing and Piercing damage - in equal amounts before randomization - added together. Typically, the total unmodified output (S+P) of knives is comparable (not equal, but comparable) to swords of equal tech level. Additionally, there are (IIRC) just as many enemies that are resistant to Piercing as there is resistant to Slashing, but a whooooole lot more that are weak to it.

Finally is the speed and stamina factor. The Razor is faster, producing equal or better DPS (one of the other engineers will have to test for specific numbers, I don't have the time to do so currently) and can continue through more combos, in turn generating more time that opponents are forced into stagger.

[Draconifors]

The razor is better than even an iron sword, because knives are way overpowered in the game. I was destroying everything except Fuling berserkers and maybe lox when I used knives.

Swords require more timing and strategy, whereas knife attacks can be spammed fairly freely as long as you've no more than 1 health food (so 2 stamina ones or stamina and balanced).

The knife secondary attack has range, eliminating the minimal reach drawback.

[Grim]

Originally posted by Faceplant8:

The backstab modifier is great, but in my experience there's very little opportunities to use it. It's fun to use on a lox, but make sure you're able to get away from his buddies in time if you need to use it.

This is entirely your playstyle then. I backstab all the time. Regardless of the backstab, the attack speed and stagger rate is also a huge factor as well as the fact it doesn't give you a movement speed debuff the way other weapons do.

[Faceplant]

Originally posted by Draconifors:

The razor is better than even an iron sword, because knives are way overpowered in the game. I was destroying everything except Fuling berserkers and maybe lox when I used knives.

This! It's hard to see how powerful knives are by looking at the numbers, but they work extremely well.

The key to berserkers is to be mobile and take our the other fuling first. The berserkers are so slow, you can just sidestep their attacks and then step back in for the next quite 3-hit combo.

Originally posted by Draconifors:

Swords require more timing and strategy, whereas knife attacks can be spammed fairly freely as long as you've no more than 1 health food (so 2 stamina ones or stamina and balanced).

One of the primary benefits of the knife is that is uses very little stamina, which means that you don't need to use stamina food. A full 3-hit combo, assuming a modest bonus uses less than 20 stamina.

Originally posted by Draconifors:

The knife secondary attack has range, eliminating the minimal reach drawback.

[/quote]

I'm not a fan of the secondary attack. It's great if you sneak up on something, get the 6X bonus with the secondary and follow that with a 3-hit combo, but, for me, it's too easy to miss a moving mob with the pounce.

[Faceplant]

Originally posted by Grimtempest:

Originally posted by Faceplant8:

The backstab modifier is great, but in my experience there's very little opportunities to use it. It's fun to use on a lox, but make sure you're able to get away from his buddies in time if you need to use it.

This is entirely your playstyle then. I backstab all the time. Regardless of the backstab, the attack speed and stagger rate is also a huge factor as well as the fact it doesn't give you a movement speed debuff the way other weapons do.

Yes. I 'm sure there are times when I could use backstab, but don't have the patients for it.

I am curious what you use it on, and if you feel you need the extra bonus or if you're just doing it because it's fun.

[Grim]

Both.

Sometimes its just fun to stealth up and kill multiple mobs before they even know your there. I've killed packs of three deer without them spooking which is more efficient than trying to plink them with a bow after they spook when the first one gets hit.

Othertimes its simply damage and time saving. Sure i have to spend a few seconds to sneak up on a troll or a seeker soldier but it also means its going to die in one, maybe two, hits rather than turning into an actual fight. Its dead before it even knows it was under attack.

Plus i think people who don't fight with daggers/knives frequently don't understand the speed/stagger rate on them. Knives are one of the best weapons in the game and are often overlooked because people just look at the damage numbers and on the weapon info and see something lower than other weapons. My default weapon unless i hit a circumstance that favors another weapon is almost always a dagger. I spent hundreds of hours in this game ignoring daggers out of ignorance and felt like an idiot once i started using them and realized what i'd missed.

[Faceplant]

The knife is so fast you don't even have to sneak up on deer or use the bow. I get plenty of deer meat just opportunistically slashing them when they run by.

I've snuck up on trolls before, but you can also just parry them with a bronze buckler and then slash them as they're reeling. I would like to try a soldier, but the only time I fight them is in mines, and it doesn't seem like sneaking up on them is generally an option there. Maybe someday.