Please Devs, stamina needs a make-over!

[Mii]

I have been playing Valheim for a while now and with the addition of Mistlands and its new tools and weapons one thing became clear to me: Stamina needs a make-over.


Stamina cost for weapons and tools goes up as you prgress through the tiers of tools and weapons, as does the pool of stamina available through food - but not stamina regeneration.

The usual intensive farming methods though are hacking away until your pickaxe is worn out with no concern of your stamina, so you are basically working off of 0 Stamina and thus off the regen alone.

Stamina cost is determined by the tier of tool you are using. Black metal axe has a basic cost of 14, iron 10, bronze of 8. These are modified by the skill level you have. Since with playing usually death occurs sometimes, having 100 Skillpoints is not the rule but the exception. For me, 70-80 is my usual average for woodcutting.

At this skill level though, the number of chops needed to cut down a birch tree, turn it into halves, chop it up and remove the stump are 2 points each for each the blackmetal, Iron and bronze axes, taking a whole of 10 strikes for one birch tree to be completely harvested.

Since the bronze axe requires only 8 stamina for each strike, the higher tiers are rendered useless, unless you are specifically going for resources where black metal tools are required.

Simmilarly, at the moment (while only tier 2 for the Mistlands weaopns is available) with lower durability and not too much damage increase at a lower stamina cost, Draugr Fang is more viable than the Spine Snap.

Damage for melee weapons seems to outweight the disadvanteges, so those are more useful.

Anyway, at the moment it seems like many of the lower tier tools and weapons are more valid than the higher tier ones we worked hard to get and I think that sends a wrong message. I don't really understand why there is different stamina cost for diferent tiers anyways.

So to sum it up:
Please reconsider stamina cost on tools and weapons
Consider increasing stamina regeneration with better food

[Humpenstilzchen]

+1
because it is so awful

[umop-apisdn]

At the risk of sounding like I'm saying "git gud", I will share some information. Be aware that my intent is to help, rather than criticize or antagonize.

If you eat Fish n Bread, Mushroom Omelette, and Salad, you can have 305 stamina.

If one is "rested", then stamina regen is doubled. With a roof and a fire, one acquires "resting", which quadruples stamina regen. These effects stack, bringing stamina regen to 5x with nothing more than a campfire and a roof.
Add in the "Tasty" mead for another 100% regen rate (at the cost of half your health regen), bringing you to a total of 6x stamina regen for 10 seconds at a time... with no cooldown.
Stop swinging the axe for just a moment, and your stamina will almost instantly fill.

Admittedly, a lot of this information is usually more relevant to mining than tree-chopping... but adding in the Elder power for a 60% damage buff vs trees, and you can do some serious forest-mowing in a really short period of time.

Infodump complete, please carry on.

[ManAnt]

Its fine.

[Blud]

another +1. it needs a rework

[John]

This is the reason i'm still using freakin' frostnir. 12 stamina vs 16, 2 handed costing like 20+, is a big difference. Max stamina should increase stamina regen, heck if i have to say Skyrim did it better, than you know the stamina system in this game kinda sucks.

How did Skyrim do it?, base % of your max stamina, then extra stamina regen improves the base percentage. So 5% per second + 100% extra regen = 10% per second. The higher the max stamina, the higher the number per second. Best of both, it feels balanced early on and you don't feel like an old man trying out cardio later in the game.

Just imagine, 2 biomes from now, 1h weapons will cost 20, stamina food is higher but the regen is still the same, that means what, we can block a few times and 1 combo of attacks and then have to wait 15 seconds for it to regen back? Either do it like i suggested or remove the increase in stamina usage for weapons. Better stamina food should mean more attacks, not less or the same with more intervals in between combo's.

[Faceplant]

Finally a thread on stamina that actually analyzes the problem and suggests a reasonable solution! I agree 100%.

[Zelph]

Stamina costs for weapons are definitely wonky and need a rework. Like, frostner taking almost half the stamina of the thunder spear makes it better in most cases. Why is a silver tier weapon on par/better then a mistlands weapon? That makes no sense.

[Khalysto]

Does the Lingering Stamina potion not help address this by adding +25% stamina regen on top of everything else articulated?

I'm very leery about changing how stamina works because the point of the game is to NOT encourage spamming. You *have* to manage your stamina.

That said, I can't argue that some balance work with how stamina drain on the various weapons work, but the overall regen from food / utilities / potions should be left as it is IMO.

Please don't turn this into a spam / mindless hack and slash adventure game which is what will happen if stamina management becomes obsolete.

[Pablo Croft]

You can please some of them some of the time, and all of them none of the time. This is why other games include a robust system of letting players define all the important features of the game play in their server options menu.

Conan Exiles is a good example of such a game. The idea of defining your experience has become a strong trend in gaming. Even a game as flexible as Conan Exiles still has mods.

My suggestion is add a toggle so players can change how the game plays. They'll try the "casual mode" first, assuming players just want another set easier way of playing. It may work for some, but the wisdom in simply making all the major features in the game a server toggle still stands, IMO.

I think these developers have a good head on their shoulders, and will eventually come to the same conclusion.

[Faceplant]

I don't consider this a thread asking to make the game easier. It's trying to fix a valid imbalance.

Higher-tier health foods have increased health regeneration, but higher-tier stamina foods don't have significantly increased stamina regeneration. I don't see anyone saying that the increased health regeneration of higher-tier foods makes the game too easy.

They could raise stamina costs overall to compensate for increase regeneration if it makes the game too easy. You would still have to manage stamina the same, but it would eliminate the ever increasing wait time to fully regenerate and utilize the increased stamina that you need in the higher-tier biomes.

[Khalysto]

Originally posted by Faceplant8:

I don't consider this a thread asking to make the game easier. It's trying to fix a valid imbalance.

Higher-tier health foods have increased health regeneration, but higher-tier stamina foods don't have significantly increased stamina regeneration. I don't see anyone saying that the increased health regeneration of higher-tier foods makes the game too easy.

They could raise stamina costs overall to compensate for increase regeneration if it makes the game too easy. You would still have to manage stamina the same, but it would eliminate the ever increasing wait time to fully regenerate and utilize the increased stamina that you need in the higher-tier biomes.

But they mitigate this with stamina potions, which is part of what I commented on earlier. Why is this insufficient? Is the cool down timer on the stam pots too long? Would that fix it? I'm focused on looking for was small adjustments can achieve a similar goal.

[Faceplant]

Originally posted by Khalysto:

But they mitigate this with stamina potions, which is part of what I commented on earlier. Why is this insufficient? Is the cool down timer on the stam pots too long? Would that fix it? I'm focused on looking for was small adjustments can achieve a similar goal.

You don't get the lingering stamina mead until (current) endgame, but the problem starts much earlier, at least in mountains. There's also the downside of inventory space and the crafting time, etc.

The game is still early access. I prefer fixing the underlying problems rather than implementing workarounds that wouldn't be required if the underlying problems were fixed.

The disparity between stamina regen and health regen seem like an obvious issue that should be fixed, and I think it causes most of the complains about stamina because people don't fully understand the issue and wonder why, when they have 300 stamina, they have to wait for half an hour to get their stamina back. They eat the best food in the game, and they're stuck at 0 stamina and it feels like they just ate cooked deer.

[Tanyon]

+1 - without Valheim+ I'd actually never play this game again. I have it set so there is 0 delay in stam regen and it regens 50% faster at base. Feels really good. These options should just be available period for anyone to adjust. The game needs sliders for everything just let us play how we want.

[Khalysto]

Originally posted by Faceplant8:

You don't get the lingering stamina mead until (current) endgame, but the problem starts much earlier, at least in mountains. There's also the downside of inventory space and the crafting time, etc.

You get two different types of stamina pots before Lingering. Why is the crafting time a factor? Build 4 fermenters and fill a chest with stam pots.

The game is still early access. I prefer fixing the underlying problems rather than implementing workarounds that wouldn't be required if the underlying problems were fixed.

The way stamina regen works may not be appealing but that doesn't make it something that's broken which requires fixing. With that said, the devs addressed the stamina regen issue by giving you 4 mechanisms to address this:

- Tasty mead (available early)
- Minor stam (also available early)
- Major Stam
- Lingering Stam pot

They literally provide you a mechanism to fill your stamina pool almost instantly. Since we're arguing that Lingering stam isn't available until late, that also means you won't have a 300 point stam pool as that's only available in late game.

I keep hearing that there's a disparity between HP and stam regen. What I'm not hearing is why the current systems in place are insufficient to address your concern.

TL;DR

it feels bad to have an empty stamina pool and have to wait for it to fill

Drink a minor / major / tasty mead to fill it almost instantly. Why is this insufficient?

[Faceplant]

Originally posted by Khalysto:

The way stamina regen works may not be appealing but that doesn't make it something that's broken which requires fixing. With that said, the devs addressed the stamina regen issue by giving you 4 mechanisms to address this:

- Tasty mead (available early)
- Minor stam (also available early)
- Major Stam
- Lingering Stam pot

They literally provide you a mechanism to fill your stamina pool almost instantly. Since we're arguing that Lingering stam isn't available until late, that also means you won't have a 300 point stam pool as that's only available in late game.

I keep hearing that there's a disparity between HP and stam regen. What I'm not hearing is why the current systems in place are insufficient to address your concern.

TL;DR

it feels bad to have an empty stamina pool and have to wait for it to fill

Drink a minor / major / tasty mead to fill it almost instantly. Why is this insufficient?

There are equivalents to all of those meads (with the exception of lingering) for health regeneration as well, so saying that they've provided some special mechanism to makeup for the disparity between health regen and stamina regen is not valid IMO.

Also, due to cooldown and inventory restriction, you know as well as I do that they're not anywhere near equivalent.