dig depth rules need a revisit

[Spark Bibo]

I searched for the dig depth posts, and there sure a lot of them. My questions are answered. ~8m down from the actual terrain generated surface. Fine.

But according to the sheer number of posts about this, seems the community and the devs have different feelings.

Perhaps a compromise? We don't necessarily need to dig all the way down to the game's flat surface bottom, but maybe increasing that maximum depth to like 12 meters?

[vinyblaster]

My problem is not really the depth, but how you can end up with water after digging only a few meters, even when fairly far from the shore.

[Spark Bibo]

Originally posted by vinyblaster:

My problem is not really the depth, but how you can end up with water after digging only a few meters, even when fairly far from the shore.

Well, that's because the water covers the entire map, corner to corner. The ground rises up from there and sticks out, but does not displace the water, like in real life. The water just stays hidden underneath, tides and all. It's kind of a design cheat, but you could think of it as the ground water table.

[Grim]

this is one of those things i'd like to see make it into the settings sliders.

[sarteck]

There's a mod one of my players has been begging me to use called something like "Unlimited Heightmap" which apparently removes that restriction. I've been leery of trying it, because it seems like something that can both easily be abused and possibly break games.

As for the "compromise" you mentioned, I'd certainly like at least a few more meters leeway. As it stands, it's typical to have roughly 10% (give or take) of copper nodes from a deposit hidden under the dig limit, and it would be useful to be able to get it all.

On the flip side, if they did loosen up restrictions, I can quite easily see myself dying liberally to fall damage in unfortunate and hilarious ways. (Well, more than I do already.)

[Spark Bibo]

Originally posted by sarteck:

There's a mod one of my players has been begging me to use called something like "Unlimited Heightmap" which apparently removes that restriction. I've been leery of trying it, because it seems like something that can both easily be abused and possibly break games.

As for the "compromise" you mentioned, I'd certainly like at least a few more meters leeway. As it stands, it's typical to have roughly 10% (give or take) of copper nodes from a deposit hidden under the dig limit, and it would be useful to be able to get it all.

On the flip side, if they did loosen up restrictions, I can quite easily see myself dying liberally to fall damage in unfortunate and hilarious ways. (Well, more than I do already.)

Yes, I can see that completely removing the restriction could cause graphical issues etc etc. Most of the copper nodes I find are like icebergs. Mostly under ground. I dig a mote all the way around the node to fully reveal it. A couple more meters would be nice.

[Nerevar]

the reason for this restriction is simply that a base becomes virtually untouchable if you could raise ground infinitly or lower it infinitly. and the water level thing is probaly beyond the devs possible changes simply as it would require them reworking the entire water system of the whole game. that is too much effort for too little gain overall and would take way too much devtime away from actually adding content.

these limits simply exist for balance reasons. and i doubt theyll ever change them much. they might raise the limits from lets say 8 to 10 or 12m but definitly never infinite. thats asking to break the game completly.

picking a good spot for a base is part of the experience aswell. if you could alter terrian infinitly anywhere this pretty much is removed from the game.

plus another reason is probaly the games performance. in the earlier versions exessive terrian changes lead to MASSIVE fps drops when loaded in. without a limit some of these issues might resurface again aswell. its alot better now but you can still make the game lag like crazy if you bypass that limit with cheats or mods and use it excessively.

[Spark Bibo]

Originally posted by Nerevar:

the reason for this restriction is simply that a base becomes virtually untouchable if you could raise ground infinitly or lower it infinitly. and the water level thing is probaly beyond the devs possible changes simply as it would require them reworking the entire water system of the whole game. that is too much effort for too little gain overall and would take way too much devtime away from actually adding content.

these limits simply exist for balance reasons. and i doubt theyll ever change them much. they might raise the limits from lets say 8 to 10 or 12m but definitly never infinite. thats asking to break the game completly.

picking a good spot for a base is part of the experience aswell. if you could alter terrian infinitly anywhere this pretty much is removed from the game.

plus another reason is probaly the games performance. in the earlier versions exessive terrian changes lead to MASSIVE fps drops when loaded in. without a limit some of these issues might resurface again aswell. its alot better now but you can still make the game lag like crazy if you bypass that limit with cheats or mods and use it excessively.

Yea, I agree. Removing the restriction would be bad for a whole host of reasons. But, a minor adjustment would be nice. I had never even thought of it in terms of RAISING the ground. Only in lowering for mining (and I saw a lot of posts about moat building).

[Nerevar]

Originally posted by Spark Bibo:

Originally posted by Nerevar:

the reason for this restriction is simply that a base becomes virtually untouchable if you could raise ground infinitly or lower it infinitly. and the water level thing is probaly beyond the devs possible changes simply as it would require them reworking the entire water system of the whole game. that is too much effort for too little gain overall and would take way too much devtime away from actually adding content.

these limits simply exist for balance reasons. and i doubt theyll ever change them much. they might raise the limits from lets say 8 to 10 or 12m but definitly never infinite. thats asking to break the game completly.

picking a good spot for a base is part of the experience aswell. if you could alter terrian infinitly anywhere this pretty much is removed from the game.

plus another reason is probaly the games performance. in the earlier versions exessive terrian changes lead to MASSIVE fps drops when loaded in. without a limit some of these issues might resurface again aswell. its alot better now but you can still make the game lag like crazy if you bypass that limit with cheats or mods and use it excessively.

Yea, I agree. Removing the restriction would be bad for a whole host of reasons. But, a minor adjustment would be nice. I had never even thought of it in terms of RAISING the ground. Only in lowering for mining (and I saw a lot of posts about moat building).

even for mineing that would simply only apply to copper nodes from the entire game. and if the node was near water level you would still be blocked. and given there is better and easier copper sources later in the game changing that just because of mineing copper seems.... not worth the potential issues it could cause. i dont see how increaseing it by like 2-3 meters would hurt too much but anything like double is already gonna cause massive problems.

[vinyblaster]

Originally posted by Spark Bibo:

Originally posted by vinyblaster:

My problem is not really the depth, but how you can end up with water after digging only a few meters, even when fairly far from the shore.

Well, that's because the water covers the entire map, corner to corner. The ground rises up from there and sticks out, but does not displace the water, like in real life. The water just stays hidden underneath, tides and all. It's kind of a design cheat, but you could think of it as the ground water table.

I know why it's like that, I just don't like it.

[sarteck]

Originally posted by Nerevar:

the reason for this restriction is simply that a base becomes virtually untouchable if you could raise ground infinitly or lower it infinitly.

That is not the reason at all. A player base becomes virtually untouchable if you raise the ground even just a tiny bit. You don't have to raise it a gazillion meters for that.

[Nerevar]

Originally posted by sarteck:

Originally posted by Nerevar:

the reason for this restriction is simply that a base becomes virtually untouchable if you could raise ground infinitly or lower it infinitly.

That is not the reason at all. A player base becomes virtually untouchable if you raise the ground even just a tiny bit. You don't have to raise it a gazillion meters for that.

false. logtrolls have big upwards range on thier overhead smash. fuleing shamans have ranged fireballs. so do archers and spearthrowers and seekers can just fly up aslong as they can see the base.

raseing the ground a TINY bit wont stop these enemies.

but if you could raise it so high no enemy would ever see it anymore nothing will ever attack it anymore either. plus if you had no dig limit you could make a hole where climbing out without a pickaxe becomes impossible if you make it lets say on a big hill or mountain site.

long story short there is too many problems this would create for the game. devs have said themselfs that they arent too keen on changing that limit in anyway. they said theyll consider adjusting it A BIT. but not by "you can now dig out a mountain till water level" sheaningans.

[sarteck]

Originally posted by Nerevar:

Originally posted by sarteck:

That is not the reason at all. A player base becomes virtually untouchable if you raise the ground even just a tiny bit. You don't have to raise it a gazillion meters for that.

false. logtrolls have big upwards range on thier overhead smash. fuleing shamans have ranged fireballs. so do archers and spearthrowers and seekers can just fly up aslong as they can see the base.

Not false at all. I don't know why you're assuming that someone is building directly on the edge of whatever terrain they raise.

Originally posted by Nerevar:

but if you could raise it so high no enemy would ever see it anymore nothing will ever attack it anymore either.

There already exist much simpler methods for this. If someone wants to use thousands of stone for what you're complaining about, I don't see that as an issue when they could achieve the same outcome with a few stacks of wood. It's a non-issue.

Originally posted by Nerevar:

plus if you had no dig limit you could make a hole where climbing out without a pickaxe becomes impossible if you make it lets say on a big hill or mountain site.

This is also not an issue. A person can already put themselves in this circumstance without less limitations to terrain if they have no food on them.

Long story short, no, it doesn't have "too many problems that it would create for the game."

Also, you're contradicting yourself when you say, "devs have said themselfs that they arent too keen on changing that limit in anyway" and "they said theyll consider adjusting it A BIT." Furthermore, if you read the OP at all, you'll see that he said "from 8m to 12m." He said nothing about "digging out a mountain."

[Sunny]

it would require them to switch what engine the game is built on, it's not going to happen

straight up just a limitation of the version of Unity it's on

it's not actually a true voxel game