Looking for alt build solution

[Raithe]

I have found 2 ways to create a safe base thusfar. Build a dirt mound that is too tall to attack and make a flat spot on top OR build dirt walls too high for enemies to assail.

Are there any other alternatives at this point? This is the biggest failing in the game as far as I can tell. We are limited to 2 types of builds for anything beyond the meadows. I am still hoping that stone wall or other will actually be secure or that some other secure perimeter has been devised.

Its really stale building the same thing over and over and over now.

[loppantorkel]

You can make a nice island fortress, or use one of those stone pillars in the Plains. Plenty of options and no need for dirt walls or so.

[Nerevar]

build on top of a stone pillar in plains/mistlands. mostly safe aside for a stray blimp in mistlands.

later on you also unlock ballistas which shot enemies for you if you set them up correctly with the right trophies.

or use an isolated piece of land.

i dont think this is the games biggest failing by any means. a moat doesnt stop flying enemies. neither do dirtwalls.

so even such bases arent completly safe. a completly safe base is simply not intentional.

and i doubt theyll ever add indestructible bases ever.

for everyone else you can enable hammer mode or set enemies to peaceful in the next content update. thus no need for changing the vanilla experience on that front.

i like that i have to think about base security in such games. its a dangerous world afterall.

[Raithe]

Yeah this still needs work. If the only 2 mechanics in the game are simply elevating your base with unclimable terrain or a moat.....that is super boring. Already done this many times. The game is very base oriented. They really need to implement more than this. If dirt walls can be flown over then why is it important to have big stone walls be destructable? All it means is that we must use dirt walls instead of stone. SO make the stone as durable or make the dirt walls destructable. No point in limiting the options to 2 solutions.

I do think this is the games biggest failing. It makes it pointless to construct anything other than a moat or raise the ground or build on raised ground.

[Nobbler]

With flying mobs, there isn't really any foolproof build without mods. If you are ok with mods:

I love Azumatt's better wards.

You can have wards deal damage to enemies inside their perimeter (you can select % health lost per tic), they can auto-repair structures, make structures indestructible, toggle PvP options, auto-close doors, lots of options to improve base QoL when you are trying to preserve that beautifully bodacious base of yours.

Basically, anything that raids my 'nice builds' goes poof, and loot rains on the ground. As for immersion, just don't use these wards on the outposts and forward bases, so you can still get sacked someplaces, but your main build stays pristine.

No walls, no moats, no fancy work-arounds. Just a simple, customizable area effect to protect your base.

[Raithe]

Yeah I think I should just post this in feedback instead sorry. kinda meant it as such. I am still hoping someday that they will add walls that resist damage up to what the trolls mete out. Once you start killing bosses you cannot avoid trolls at the base. When this happens you just have to have your base elevated or must have dirt walls. Both are limiting. Dirt walls look especially terrible. Since these are not a way you can make the base invulnerable there really is no reason to make other base defenses that you can build equal to these two methods. Then you can work with early made bases to both look nice and stand up while you move along. Especially if you play a live server with other ppl this becomes more important. When you are not on but others are your bases which are shared (as in multiple ppl have spawn points in your bases) then your bases begin to be attacked when you are not on. Ultimately you then have to go back to dirt wall or raising dirt.

Moving this to some feedback channel now. Thanks for the alternate ideas.

[loppantorkel]

Not trying to persuade you, but to me it seems like you'd be better off just having an option to exclude raids altogether. The issue is your live server where people may not be around to save the base in raids.

For me, raids aren't a big issue, I've got little to no defence, but I'm not on a live server. The defensive options are fine, but of course could be improved in time, in more structured games.

Having defensive options to entirely negate the risk of raids isn't a good solution imo.

[Faceplant]

Originally posted by Raithe:

Yeah this still needs work. If the only 2 mechanics in the game are simply elevating your base with unclimable terrain or a moat.....that is super boring. Already done this many times. The game is very base oriented. They really need to implement more than this. If dirt walls can be flown over then why is it important to have big stone walls be destructable? All it means is that we must use dirt walls instead of stone. SO make the stone as durable or make the dirt walls destructable. No point in limiting the options to 2 solutions.

I do think this is the games biggest failing. It makes it pointless to construct anything other than a moat or raise the ground or build on raised ground.

What exactly is your goal? You appear to want a perfectly safe base (which I consider an odd goal for this type of game, but which is very popular), but others have pointed out that the two designs that you are so bored of building are not perfectly safe due to air attacks.

You then suggest that they could make dirt walls as destructible as stone walls, which would mean your perfectly safe base would be even less safe. Apparently that's okay because it would then give you the option to build stone walls, which you couldn't build before because why?

This is not a game problem. It's a "you" problem. You're bored because you've placed arbitrary restrictions on yourself.

I've never built a base terrain manipulated defenses, and I have never (that I can remember) died in a base raid, nor have I ever had significant damage to my base due to a raid. There are many, many was to build a "safe" base in this game.

[Raithe]

Originally posted by loppantorkel:

Not trying to persuade you, but to me it seems like you'd be better off just having an option to exclude raids altogether. The issue is your live server where people may not be around to save the base in raids.

For me, raids aren't a big issue, I've got little to no defence, but I'm not on a live server. The defensive options are fine, but of course could be improved in time, in more structured games.

Having defensive options to entirely negate the risk of raids isn't a good solution imo.

You cannot negate the raids completely ever which is fine.

I am fine with raids being on.

My problem is that in every case for every base there are 2 options REQUIRED for basic base defense every time for every single base ever.

Dig an ugly moat or use the hoe 500000000x times to raise a patch of land or dirt wall. Since this is the case for every single base every single time it would be nice if we could acheive this same thing with defenses we build is all. Stone instead of dirt or etc.

THAT is all that I am saying. All these assumptions surrounding me wanting to not be raided are just false. That has nothing to do with anything. Just was trying to post feedback on the pointlessness of having stone walls (or other) take damage when dirt never does and only that.

We can continue to make dirt walls. It works. I just hate them. The lack of variance is a major driving factor for me to build in other games. Its not the only factor but it kinda ruins base building for me now for sure.

[Faceplant]

Originally posted by Raithe:

YOnce you start killing bosses you cannot avoid trolls at the base. When this happens you just have to have your base elevated or must have dirt walls.

That is not true. Wood stake walls are good enough to slow down a troll long enough to deal with it.

Originally posted by Raithe:

Especially if you play a live server with other ppl this becomes more important. When you are not on but others are your bases which are shared (as in multiple ppl have spawn points in your bases) then your bases begin to be attacked when you are not on. Ultimately you then have to go back to dirt wall or raising dirt.

Why would there be a difference in a shared base? If someone is using the base and they get a raid, don't they defend it like you would?

[Raithe]

Originally posted by Faceplant8:

Originally posted by Raithe:

YOnce you start killing bosses you cannot avoid trolls at the base. When this happens you just have to have your base elevated or must have dirt walls.

That is not true. Wood stake walls are good enough to slow down a troll long enough to deal with it.

Originally posted by Raithe:

Especially if you play a live server with other ppl this becomes more important. When you are not on but others are your bases which are shared (as in multiple ppl have spawn points in your bases) then your bases begin to be attacked when you are not on. Ultimately you then have to go back to dirt wall or raising dirt.

Why would there be a difference in a shared base? If someone is using the base and they get a raid, don't they defend it like you would?

It makes a difference when you have a server up that is acting more like a persistent multiplayer online game that a small group of ppl can access independently from their machines at any time. This is really fun. Its clan play. This is the only way these super open ended games keep my attention. But ultimately it decays very quickly if you don't use these 2 basic terrain manipulations each time. Stuff just happens. Newbs don't defend something. It would simply be nice to be able to keep this up without the dirt but with build constructions that are visually appealing.

NOTE: I am not suggesting ANY defense that extends our abilities beyond what is available in game right now and since it was released with as little as an antler pick-axe. I am just suggesting that end game defenses should be as viable as the defenses available after beating the first boss.

[loppantorkel]

Originally posted by Raithe:

Originally posted by loppantorkel:

Not trying to persuade you, but to me it seems like you'd be better off just having an option to exclude raids altogether. The issue is your live server where people may not be around to save the base in raids.

For me, raids aren't a big issue, I've got little to no defence, but I'm not on a live server. The defensive options are fine, but of course could be improved in time, in more structured games.

Having defensive options to entirely negate the risk of raids isn't a good solution imo.

You cannot negate the raids completely ever which is fine.
I am fine with raids being on.

..but you're not fine with the destruction these raids bring if you haven't protected them well enough and only the newbs are around?

My problem is that in every case for every base there are 2 options REQUIRED for basic base defense every time for every single base ever.

But they aren't required. Not close to required. You may want them in your very specific setup.

Dig an ugly moat or use the hoe 500000000x times to raise a patch of land or dirt wall. Since this is the case for every single base every single time it would be nice if we could acheive this same thing with defenses we build is all. Stone instead of dirt or etc.

Again - it's nowhere close to being a necessity. Stone walls exist already.

THAT is all that I am saying. All these assumptions surrounding me wanting to not be raided are just false. That has nothing to do with anything. Just was trying to post feedback on the pointlessness of having stone walls (or other) take damage when dirt never does and only that.

It's sort of an exploit with the dirt wall. I've tried it once but it was too ugly. Moats I've done, and I don't mind them that much. They aren't needed though, but can alleviate things early on.

We can continue to make dirt walls. It works. I just hate them. The lack of variance is a major driving factor for me to build in other games. Its not the only factor but it kinda ruins base building for me now for sure.

I see your point, but I still view your specific setup with 'newbs' on a live server being the main culprit, and even if extra defensive structures and features very well may be implemented, Valheim shouldn't be balanced for your specific live server setup. I doubt most people play like that and the game would be very different if they balanced raids and defence around such setup.

I'm not saying you should disable raids if it becomes an option, but perhaps there will be other options available to negate the issue on your server. Perhaps raids could be more dynamic and suited for the players on at the specific moment or something.

[knighttemplar1960]

Want an outside of the box solution?

Create 2 worlds using the same seed. Build in one and kill no bosses there. You'll only get the first raid which you can pretty much ignore and when its over you can see if any of your stake or stone walls need repair from the boars after a raid.

Store every thing in your build world, do all of your smelting, mining, farming, forestry, taming, and exploring there and you'll never have a raid past the first one.

Kill the bosses in your combat world. They will be located in the same places as your build world since you use the same map seed. All you need for a base in your combat world is a spot for a bed where you can get your best possible rested bonus and a portal. Since you won't be spending any time in it the chances of it getting raided are small and since you put very little time into building it, if does get raided and trashed you can just rebuild the bare bones and keep going or rebuild it elsewhere and ignore the raid. You could even make one combat world per boss and discard that combat world when you have killed the boss so you don't get anything but the first raid there.

If you keep a current screen shot of your exploration map in the background you can navigate in your combat world easily enough since they will be nearly identical. When you kill the boss take the drops and the trophy back to your build world.

Then live happily ever after without anything but the first raid which is all food and all most no damage.

[hallaloth]

I mean, it takes a good chunk of time for even a troll to beat down a stone wall. I imagine the new marble tiles are even more durable? (Haven't gotten there yet).

If the issue is higher level raids spawning with players at lower tiers of progression. . .maybe put a general server rule in place asking players unable/unwilling to deal with a raid to leave the area until the raid times out?

Either that or bury workbenches/campfires so that the raid spawns so far it times out before it gets there. . .which also means the static raids that don't leave will hover out of general range. Torches laid out work to and light the area/make a nice path/road home.

Double/triple layer stone walls and it'll take even longer. Doesn't help flying raids, but nothing on the ground is going to get through if someone leaves or stays on top of it.

[Nerevar]

Originally posted by Raithe:

Originally posted by loppantorkel:

Not trying to persuade you, but to me it seems like you'd be better off just having an option to exclude raids altogether. The issue is your live server where people may not be around to save the base in raids.

For me, raids aren't a big issue, I've got little to no defence, but I'm not on a live server. The defensive options are fine, but of course could be improved in time, in more structured games.

Having defensive options to entirely negate the risk of raids isn't a good solution imo.

You cannot negate the raids completely ever which is fine.

I am fine with raids being on.

My problem is that in every case for every base there are 2 options REQUIRED for basic base defense every time for every single base ever.

Dig an ugly moat or use the hoe 500000000x times to raise a patch of land or dirt wall. Since this is the case for every single base every single time it would be nice if we could acheive this same thing with defenses we build is all. Stone instead of dirt or etc.

THAT is all that I am saying. All these assumptions surrounding me wanting to not be raided are just false. That has nothing to do with anything. Just was trying to post feedback on the pointlessness of having stone walls (or other) take damage when dirt never does and only that.

We can continue to make dirt walls. It works. I just hate them. The lack of variance is a major driving factor for me to build in other games. Its not the only factor but it kinda ruins base building for me now for sure.

with the next content update later this month you CAN just disable raids. so moot argument.

and you can make a base look good while haveing a moat. did so myself. tough what someone deems "looking good" is subjective so i guess thats not an argument for either case to begin with.

[Nerevar]

Originally posted by hallaloth:

I mean, it takes a good chunk of time for even a troll to beat down a stone wall. I imagine the new marble tiles are even more durable? (Haven't gotten there yet).

If the issue is higher level raids spawning with players at lower tiers of progression. . .maybe put a general server rule in place asking players unable/unwilling to deal with a raid to leave the area until the raid times out?

Either that or bury workbenches/campfires so that the raid spawns so far it times out before it gets there. . .which also means the static raids that don't leave will hover out of general range. Torches laid out work to and light the area/make a nice path/road home.

Double/triple layer stone walls and it'll take even longer. Doesn't help flying raids, but nothing on the ground is going to get through if someone leaves or stays on top of it.

the server thing is unneeded. once the update rolls in you can make raid progression either off or based on players present. so a low tier progress player wont get seeker raids even when someone else on the server beat yagluth anymore.