Can we talk about the spears?

[pyremind]

Like, what the hell were they thinkin'?

The whole point of spears is that they give you range.

Yet my guy is trying to stab boars like he's holding a kitchen knife.

[Sound]

The main gimmick of spears in Valheim is that you can throw them, if you want an increase in melee range like you would normally think a spear does, you can use a polearm (like the atgeirs).

Also, the stabby stab of spears isn’t completely useless - it’s quite a fast attack speed so you can chew through higher hp enemies.

[Hobo Misanthropus]

Atgeirs are spears as you know them. The spears in Valheim are hunter's spears, which were shorter thrown weapons similar to what you might know as a Javelin.

The whole point of spears is not "Range" The whole point of spears is simplicity. You can shove a spear in a peasants hands, and have an effective fighter, especially when you amass a thousand of them together.

A trained Spear fighter most often uses a broad-headed Partisan or halberd. These are much longer and completely different in balance, and are classified as polearms Just like the Atgeirs. Where as a spear is simply a thrusting weapon, a partisan or halberd behaves more like a dagger or axe on a long shaft, with a much wider range of lethal motion aside from just the thrust.

[bacon]

use the spear

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amL9Vz0ura4

[Quillithe]

Originally posted by pyremind:

Like, what the hell were they thinkin'?

The whole point of spears is that they give you range.

Yet my guy is trying to stab boars like he's holding a kitchen knife.

Make long shaft.

Hold middle of shaft to stab.

???

[ling.speed]

Not sure what is there to talk about. Its not correct how spears are used in game, but also an actual spear would be OP to the moon.

What we have in game is a javelin not a spear, which we can add to collection of wrongly named things, like Coal.

I like to imagine that its a particularly flimsy/short one, so it can be used only one handed to stab.

[knighttemplar1960]

The bow is for range and knives work quite well in game.

[Rhapsody]

The carapace spear, which is currently the best pure physical damage one-handed weapon in the game, would probably be quite broken if it had any longer reach. It's very easy to stagger virtually any enemy with it thanks to high attack speed and great amount of damage.

Reverse grip provides more force and also makes it faster to throw the spear. It's also much more convenient for animation of the two attacks.

The grip and reach could be different, but then the weapon would delve into realm of two-handed weaponry in the game's context and require more complex animations and other rebalancing.

[pipo.p]

Originally posted by ling.speed:

What we have in game is a javelin not a spear, which we can add to collection of wrongly named things, like Coal. :reimu5:

I like to imagine that its a particularly flimsy/short one, so it can be used only one handed to stab.

You just described a hunting spear (an "épieu" in French). You also just described a tier-1 weapon for peasant militia and Germanic tribal levees as Hobo said. I'd even expect that the spear in Valheim has an additional special attack with its blunt end.

Spears are no pikes, nor sarissa, but they can be looked like a short hoplitic dorys (2 meters long, the height a character in Valheim). They were meant to be used single-handly, together with a shield, except when receiving charges.

[Rhapsody]

Originally posted by pipo.p:

You just described a hunting spear

And that's indeed the best purpose for spears in the game. I've bagged countless hares, boars, deers, birds and other things with spear throw. They make quick work of the lox as well. I wouldn't exchange it for anything.

Instead, I think I'd like if the polearm class of weapons (and maybe spears as well, separately) was a bit more varied, similarly to other weapon skill categories like clubs, axes, swords, and even knives. We could have two-handed spears which have even greater reach than atgeirs, but lack the spin2win ability. We could also have slashing polearms or other such staff weapons.

Spears might seem quirky and inflexible at first, but they really are not, mostly thanks to the throwing attack. There should still remain ways to expand the game without changing what already works and has its own role in it.

[VoyTЄk]

I know right. They would be OP if they were longer tho, and it does make landing those spear throws much more satisfying. Forces you to fight smarter on better ground too. They also make badass decorations

[Shadow Moses OG]

You also cant aim down in the water with the spear or any weapon if Iirc. In my experience If a target is slightly higher or lower you are going to miss. I feel they need to rework the combat mechanics and animations.

[Tanyon]

They are absolutely terrrrrrrible..

[pipo.p]

Actually, spears (upgraded flint spear) are my favorite weapon to fight against greydwarf brutes because they allow me to fail my parry and still fight back without ending exhausted.

[lorifel]

Originally posted by Shadow Moses OG:

You also cant aim down in the water with the spear or any weapon if Iirc. In my experience If a target is slightly higher or lower you are going to miss. I feel they need to rework the combat mechanics and animations.

Spears are my weapon of choice to fight leeches and other enemies on the lower ground. Nearly every weapon will miss in that situation, but you can throw the spear downwards at point blank and immediately have it back in your hand!

[i have 2026 vision fear me]

I wanted to touch upon this, the spear in Valheim is more similar to a javelin, or simply a short spear - not an actual 6 foot spear that is most commonly thought of when thinking of the word "spear". Atgeir seems to take the current position of what a spear should be, but with an AoE aspect. I find it disappointing that there's a whole "polearm" skill, yet the only weapon affected by it is the Atgeir. I'd safely imagine they'd add more polearm type weapons, a 6 foot spear should definitely be added since it's also a polearm technically - and if they do, just name the current in-game spear a hunting spear or short spear, simple.

My suggestion for polearms generally would be;
-Addition of a proper (2 handed, 6 foot length) spear. Excels in high, single target, pierce damage at a range, low knockback, medium stam use. Attack combo would be essentially the Atgeirs (you stab people with pointy end, what else can you do that would be as effective?), and for the alternate attack, it's could potentially just be a long windup into a heavy, high damage and long range stab.
-> because of this change, it would be very similar to the Atgier, to which i'd suggest splitting the damage half/half between pierce and slash. Make the spin attack primarily, or entirely slash. This version of the atgeir should have a slight damage buff (not necessary), and it's range should be shorter than the spear (as the weight of the metal blade would not allow for the same range as the spear's) - so either reduce the atgeirs range and make the spear have it's old range, or just make the spears range longer than the current atgeir. These changes should help them more easily be distinguished in their pros and cons and uses.

-Addition of a polehammer (or lucerne hammer). Same range as the new ver. of the atgeir. Excels in high blunt damage at a range, quite high stam use, windup slower than the Halberd but faster than the battleaxe, would behave like a slash/swing style weapon with a narrower degree of attack, knockback of initial two attacks be low, final hit high knockback. Combo could either consist of a; slash, slash into an overhead, or, a slash, slash into a pierce damage stab. Alternate attack would be the alternate version of the last combo swing; overhead or stab.

-Addition of the Halberd. Quite well known weapon so not too much to explain. Excels in large degree of attack, as well as range, swing type weapon, high slash damage, high stam use and moderate windup time. Combo would consist of slashes, pattern of which attacks would be; /, \, into a vertical overhead, or, a high damage horizontal slash. Alternate could be a long windup, high damage, large degree of attack horizontal slash, or an overhead depending on the final swing of the combo.

-Honorable mentions that i would like to also see but couldn't be bothered to write out; Poleaxe, billhook pretty much, can't think of anymore apart from a trident.

Now i'd imagine these to be similar to how you craft the Atgeir, at each or every few metal stages, or have some of these weapons as a unique one-of-a-kind style weapon like the frostner.