Let's be honest. Valheim isn't improving.

[TXI]

Take this as a discussion out of worry for the future of the game to the devs. This is not hate, just annoyance that simple changes we've asked for have been ignored for NEARLY 2 YEARS NOW. I want to go over quickly why this game *CAN* be exhausting, boring and downright trash. This is from a returning player who had 2 max characters and is playing 1 new one.

1. Grind
The grind is terrible. I'm sick of it. They refuse to improve it. The Seeds make it unbearable and confusing. The first example is moving from the plains to the black forest. Within day 1 you are highly pushed into making a base ASAP and making it as defendable as possible, after putting all that time into a base you don't want to abandon it, however usually this base will not be in reach of either the black forest or the swamp. This leaves 2 options: A) Run around the map in hopes the regions are close to your base. B) Set up multiple bases harboring goods that you'll need, never having a clear base. I chose to do A, the black forest is 7 minutes away meaning I have to walk there and back, costing me 14 minutes of my time. The base inventory allows you to hold basically nothing, so by the time you come back, you can make one upgrade to your bench. 30+ minutes for one upgrade. The teleporter rule is still in place showing the devs do not care about how the COMMUNITY feel. The most downloaded mod on nexus is the one disabling the ore restriction on teleporters, nobody likes it, why is it still in? So the devs can milk play time. On top of that greydwarf spawns are still abysmal, not that they're hard to fight or too strong, but they get attracted from miles away and swarm you, causing early playtime delays and unfun deaths if you can't escape (or run out of torches). This is also an issue in the swamp with Draugrs. We have Troll Hide armor and the sneak ability but Greydwarves, skeletons and draugrs seem to find you anyway. making the sneak ability useless for most cases. All these anti-fun properties make Valheim a boring grind with more risk than reward.

2. The RNG; Maps, Enemies, Merchant. (Continuation)
It's terrible. One of the worst gameplay designs possible when the DEVS are incompetent at it. Yes it adds flavour and uniqueness, it also adds frustration. Enjoying Valheim is determined SIMPLY BY ONE RULE; if your seed is good. If it's bad, the game is boring, trash, unfun, insanely annoying and sometimes downright unplayable. I've had moder and bonemass fights spawn at the edge of the map, making it inaccessible until I make the best boat going (useless if the wind mechanic is against you btw). Another key annoyance of RNG is drop rate. If you want a wolf coat you need a trophy, how do you get it? Kill 1 wolf. Or 10. Or 30. Or 50. Or 100. There needs to be AT LEAST a net to say "once 10 wolves killed = drop trophy" because it's unfair to have to grind for one item that long. This is a problem with a lot of drops, like the skeleton shield requiring skeleton heads. Dungeons are the third RNG annoyance, sometimes a dungeon can have 15 enemies and 0 loot. This is mainly a problem with surtling core hunting, sometimes I get 0, sometimes 9. It's not fair to make people go into dungeons with nothing in them. People can meat ride and say "yeah but you can't expect it everytime" yes I can. The game is long enough without needing to hunt that long just to make a damn furnace. Fourth is of course the merchant RNG, I have a unique fix for this. Most people say "more merchants" or "spawn them closer" no. Let us save gold and pay the damn guy to come stay at our base somewhere. Then we have access to him whenever we need him, the right price the desired item, right? I feel like most players would enjoy that.

3. Motes of Transport
Nearly EVERY other survival game allows you to get mounts either early on or mid-game. Cars and horses with Rust, dinosaurs with Ark, Horses and Rhinos in Conan Exiles. Most mounts can carry items and are fast. In Valheim we have... Lox. Slow, can't carry anything, more of a burden than anything. Keep in mind the other games have SET maps, Valheim is randomised, it could take you up to 30 minutes to find a region you need. Give us mounts. Deer, Boars, Wolves, even damn trolls if you have to. Maybe a sled or carriage pulled by them? Boats are slow and most don't work unless the wind RNG is in your favour, plus the obvious downside is it can't go on land, shocking, right? It's insane the devs haven't given us mounts for an RNG generated map which could have the player running for hours.

4. The devs need to listen.
The developers of Valheim abandoned their original update goals, Mistlands being the biggest update, arguably the only "BIG" update since launch. Listen to us, at LEAST if anything, get rid of the teleporter rule, nobody likes it, nobody thinks its fun. second most important is fixing map RNG. Put some rules in the code that "micro" regions can't be allowed, finding a region only for it to be a tiny island is depressing, bigger regions = more chances for the things we NEED. Make a rule that the boss fights must not be too far from the spawn point. Decrease spawn rates for greydwarves and other annoying creatures that offer nothing except time wasting. Or at least make the sneak mechanic more intricate and detailed so we can ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ avoid them.

Thanks for reading guys. If you disagree, fine, let me know why. I feel as if I've been fair about the game here, especially after waiting so long for changes to happen and them not doing it.

[Lil brekky]

I agree on all counts. I've closely observed their development cycle and communications since release. In spite of honeyed words, they seem pretty much totally disinterested in community suggestions and feedback (for example, crossbows were pretty strongly unwanted in discord polls, and look where that got us) and theyve put only cursory effort into polishing and populating whatever is already in the game. I'll also say that just a brief overview of very simple but popular mods evidences the devs' absolute disinterest in anything you could call QOL changes. Whatever we get is their "vision" and it is blind to the feedback of millions of playtesters.

In spite of EA status, after the very successful release, I get the impression that the devs consider everything currently in the game as complete, and theyre simply adding on top instead of fleshing it out.

[fastforward]

TLDR i am enjoying the game rn, still havent seen mistlands. sailing is fun. Hoping for cool underwater dungeons in the ocean expansion. Exploration should stay a core part of the game. have never used the ore transport cheat.

only thing that is still bugging me out is my cape sticking out the boat when at the rudder.

[TXI]

Originally posted by fastforward:

TLDR i am enjoying the game rn, still havent seen mistlands. sailing is fun. Hoping for cool underwater dungeons in the ocean expansion. Exploration should stay a core part of the game. have never used the ore transport cheat.

only thing that is still bugging me out is my cape sticking out the boat when at the rudder.

Because it's your first run + these mechanics are acceptable for a few ten hours, after awhile you will see why it's such a big problem. Especially living with these issues for nearly 2 years for OG players.

[Eightball]

I can say I disagree with all your points and I would also say that stating the 'community' wants something or not is rather reaching.

For every player that wants one thing I can easily find another that does not want it so best to keep it all as your opinion and not some sentiment of the entire community.

I have never felt the need to build some large base in the Forest, let alone make it defensible. If there is a raid I fight in the field and my bases are utilitarian not artistic.

The grind is no more or less than in other games. The only point that can actually become grindy for many is the Bronze tier, but you can skip over most of it and be fine so that is an 'optional' grind.

We have boats for transportation and they work fine. I personally see no reason for additional mounts as I get around fine on foot and by boat when needed.

Why should a dungeon always have something in it? They are by in large small, easy to navigate and not overly hard to clear depending on the biome. Part of the enjoyment for me in this game is the exploration and discovery.

I could go on, but in the end not every game is for everyone. Much of what you don't like is what makes Valheim unique and thousands upon thousands of players enjoy it. So perhaps the games you mention as doing things the way you like (Rust, Conan Exiles, etc.) might fit your interest more and it would be far easier to play a game that is already the way you like it then to try and change one that isn't into one you want.

[Krieger]

My fear is as they progress in making valheim instead of working with what they have they ♥♥♥♥ what they already had. As in Instead of doing something for Ashland they nerf the previous biomes stamina and mining etc, the biomes they already have are fun and perfected to work the way they are.

they need to innovate the new biomes not ♥♥♥♥ the old ones.

[Lil brekky]

Originally posted by Eightball:

I can say I disagree with all your points and I would also say that stating the 'community' wants something or not is rather reaching.

For every player that wants one thing I can easily find another that does not want it so best to keep it all as your opinion and not some sentiment of the entire community.

I have never felt the need to build some large base in the Forest, let alone make it defensible. If there is a raid I fight in the field and my bases are utilitarian not artistic.

The grind is no more or less than in other games. The only point that can actually become grindy for many is the Bronze tier, but you can skip over most of it and be fine so that is an 'optional' grind.

We have boats for transportation and they work fine. I personally see no reason for additional mounts as I get around fine on foot and by boat when needed.

Why should a dungeon always have something in it? They are by in large small, easy to navigate and not overly hard to clear depending on the biome. Part of the enjoyment for me in this game is the exploration and discovery.

I could go on, but in the end not every game is for everyone. Much of what you don't like is what makes Valheim unique and thousands upon thousands of players enjoy it. So perhaps the games you mention as doing things the way you like (Rust, Conan Exiles, etc.) might fit your interest more and it would be far easier to play a game that is already the way you like it then to try and change one that isn't into one you want.

Inventory stacks dont even work properly. Enemy AI is "run in circles". Sloped combat is asymmetric between mobs and players. Bosses commonly spawn obscene distances from the spawn point. Iron grates dont let smoke through.

I critique the game's flaws because of how much I enjoy it and want it to be better. I dont think telling people "just dont play Valheim" is very supportive of the game's growth. The game gives too many players too many excuses to simply not play

[fastforward]

Originally posted by TXI:

Originally posted by fastforward:

TLDR i am enjoying the game rn, still havent seen mistlands. sailing is fun. Hoping for cool underwater dungeons in the ocean expansion. Exploration should stay a core part of the game. have never used the ore transport cheat.

only thing that is still bugging me out is my cape sticking out the boat when at the rudder.

Because it's your first run + these mechanics are acceptable for a few ten hours, after awhile you will see why it's such a big problem. Especially living with these issues for nearly 2 years for OG players.

no its my second run, i am replaying the game. bought it quite long ago, finished it solo and with a friend and now replaying it again. so dont assume stuff you dont know about ...
no comment on the "OG players"

[TXI]

Originally posted by Eightball:

I can say I disagree with all your points and I would also say that stating the 'community' wants something or not is rather reaching.

For every player that wants one thing I can easily find another that does not want it so best to keep it all as your opinion and not some sentiment of the entire community.

I have never felt the need to build some large base in the Forest, let alone make it defensible. If there is a raid I fight in the field and my bases are utilitarian not artistic.

The grind is no more or less than in other games. The only point that can actually become grindy for many is the Bronze tier, but you can skip over most of it and be fine so that is an 'optional' grind.

We have boats for transportation and they work fine. I personally see no reason for additional mounts as I get around fine on foot and by boat when needed.

Why should a dungeon always have something in it? They are by in large small, easy to navigate and not overly hard to clear depending on the biome. Part of the enjoyment for me in this game is the exploration and discovery.

I could go on, but in the end not every game is for everyone. Much of what you don't like is what makes Valheim unique and thousands upon thousands of players enjoy it. So perhaps the games you mention as doing things the way you like (Rust, Conan Exiles, etc.) might fit your interest more and it would be far easier to play a game that is already the way you like it then to try and change one that isn't into one you want.

I never said the games not for me or that I dislike it, the game is good under all the anti-player moves. Valheim Plus has 861k downloads, that's more downloads than this game ever peaked at, and it fixes the issues named in this discussion here. Maybe you got lucky with your seed? I don't know, but for all 3 of my seeds not having transport has been a very depressing experience. Also having a dungeon capable of having no loot is time waste, who goes into a dungeon just to "explore" it? They do it to get progression items, if that dungeon is the only one in that region you are then forced to run 20~30~40 minutes to another one. That's why they all need something.

[TXI]

Originally posted by fastforward:

Originally posted by TXI:

Because it's your first run + these mechanics are acceptable for a few ten hours, after awhile you will see why it's such a big problem. Especially living with these issues for nearly 2 years for OG players.

no its my second run, i am replaying the game. bought it quite long ago, finished it solo and with a friend and now replaying it again. so dont assume stuff you dont know about ...
no comment on the "OG players"

Perhaps a good seed? Perhaps better spawns? Could be anything, I can't know without personally joining your game and comparing it to mine. All I know is in all 3 runs I've done, these issues have ALL been prevalent for me. Also I'm playing Solo, you're doing it with a friend, that's another huge issue. COMPLETELY Solo Valheim is even worse, so that factors into enjoyability too. 2 of my friends who have this game quit because of the RNG and grind lmfao.

[ChiefBeef]

Originally posted by TXI:

1. Grind
The grind is terrible. I'm sick of it. They refuse to improve it. The Seeds make it unbearable and confusing. The first example is moving from the plains to the black forest. Within day 1 you are highly pushed into making a base ASAP and making it as defendable as possible, after putting all that time into a base you don't want to abandon it, however usually this base will not be in reach of either the black forest or the swamp. This leaves 2 options: A) Run around the map in hopes the regions are close to your base. B) Set up multiple bases harboring goods that you'll need, never having a clear base. I chose to do A, the black forest is 7 minutes away meaning I have to walk there and back, costing me 14 minutes of my time. The base inventory allows you to hold basically nothing, so by the time you come back, you can make one upgrade to your bench. 30+ minutes for one upgrade. The teleporter rule is still in place showing the devs do not care about how the COMMUNITY feel. The most downloaded mod on nexus is the one disabling the ore restriction on teleporters, nobody likes it, why is it still in? So the devs can milk play time. On top of that greydwarf spawns are still abysmal, not that they're hard to fight or too strong, but they get attracted from miles away and swarm you, causing early playtime delays and unfun deaths if you can't escape (or run out of torches). This is also an issue in the swamp with Draugrs. We have Troll Hide armor and the sneak ability but Greydwarves, skeletons and draugrs seem to find you anyway. making the sneak ability useless for most cases. All these anti-fun properties make Valheim a boring grind with more risk than reward..

Seeds are exactly that. Random. Re-roll or overcome the map challanges.

Most people set up a main base within meadows. This is usually close to black forest. Farm cores and set up portals to minor bases. eg swamp plains.

As defensible as possible? there are no attacks until you defeat the first boss or after nine days pass. I played without wall for 30 days. Even so i only added them for aesthetics.

Teleporting ores? i agree it's annoying but just because the community wants it doesn't mean its the best for the game. BOATS AND CARTS EXIST FOR A REASON. so is paving roads and setting up docks. this isn't arbitrary grind like runescape. there is a gameplay reason for it.

[FissionChips]

1(a) I choose to waste 14 minutes of my time

Ok, it's your time.

1(b) inventory is too small

Inventory is fine.

1(c) I wAnNa TeLePoRt MeTaL (and speak for the whole community)

You speak only for yourself. Teleporting metal is not intended and will never be changed. Mod it if you don't like it, no-one is stopping you.

1(d) I suck at sneaking

100% a you problem, I can sneak just fine. Currently on a new run with modded skill progression much lower and higher death penalty, on day 6 hunting greydwarfs and trolls. And I suck at video games.

2(a) RNGesus

Some guaranteed trophy drops would be nice. I'm happy with the dungeons as is.

2(b) the merchant

I agree that he needs to at least be more easily findable - for newbs the one and only way to know he exists is stumbling on him. There are I think better suggestions and discussions on this already, however.

3, I too understand the desire for faster travel. Boating is particularly boring. I intend on my current run to take the shorter path to land and explore the island until I jump in the water again, rather than try again to navigate around an island in the way that turns out to be half the world long. Should be more interesting, though it's not faster.

4, they're not going to port metal. I like micro regions and biome weirdness. Bosses don't need to be at set distances. Can we decrease spawn rates for common and already rejected complaints?

---

There's a lot that could be done to improve valheim, however dribbling out a bunch of stale complaints - some of which have been outright rejected already - helps no-one. There are some quality discussions on these forums, perhaps search and engage.

[Fosty]

Nah I think it is

[fastforward]

Originally posted by TXI:

I never said the games not for me or that I dislike it, the game is good under all the anti-player moves. Valheim Plus has 861k downloads, that's more downloads than this game ever peaked at, and it fixes the issues named in this discussion here. Maybe you got lucky with your seed? I don't know, but for all 3 of my seeds not having transport has been a very depressing experience. Also having a dungeon capable of having no loot is time waste, who goes into a dungeon just to "explore" it? They do it to get progression items, if that dungeon is the only one in that region you are then forced to run 20~30~40 minutes to another one. That's why they all need something.

if you get frustrated just because you didnt find a surting core in a dungeon, you have a very low limit for frustration. wait till you land in meadows and suddently a buzzing mosquito out of nowhere bites you.
game should never guarantee success. rng is great because there are those dungeons where one can find tons of cores, and ofc there are dungeons where there are no cores. making all dungeons give the median amount of cores would be worse than it is right now. the feeling of success when getting alot of cores should outweigh the frustration when finding none. but some people get frustrated too easily. idk. i like exploring. sometimes i go in the burial chambers just because there is one and i want to put a crossed burial marker on my map.

[FissionChips]

Originally posted by Lil brekky:

...
Inventory stacks dont even work properly. Enemy AI is "run in circles". Sloped combat is asymmetric between mobs and players. Bosses commonly spawn obscene distances from the spawn point. Iron grates dont let smoke through.
...

All legitimate complaints, none of which op mentioned.

[Foxglovez]

I dunno, it feels to me like you just don't much like how the devs have constructed Valheim. You see the view and think about the game you would make, how you would change this one. But the devs have their vision, and that is what is important to them. Not your vision, the vision they have for the game. We sometimes think that we have a say in the game, but generally, not so much because for everything any of us or many of us want changed a certain way, there are many more that don't want to see that change. So who do they listen to? It's like a bunch of paparazzi standing outside the gates screaming at them - all the time.

There are things I really dislike, looking at you boats, but I know it's tough beans for me. I use a second world to portal metals. My choice just as it is everyone's choice. They have said they are not going to change that, period, yet world hopping is allowed so that's cool.

In fact you do not have to quickly make a base, you can spend a lot of time looking around but you have to wait a bit then to kill Eikthyr. Till then a picket fence works fine.
You can choose a seed you like, look it up if the randomness of it is annoying. Again, it's your game, no one is effected by it and it'll probably make your gaming more fun. Here is a hot tip, the seed FiddlyBits (written exactly as shown) is amazing. I don't know who discovered it but I just typed it in the generator and decided I had won the lotto.

Most my characters are swimming in cores, thistles, most stuff because I like to explore. Early toons just stand around at a spawner and smack GD's for a time while I drink tea. This game is quite fun as a process, probably less if one is in a hurry. It's a game, it's not important in my life, I can just meander around aimlessly as much as I want.

Yes the game is grindy but that IS the game. If you have ever thought about spending time living out in the wild, there's a lot to do to keep yourself fed, clothed, sheltered and prepare for battles. I personally think the devs did a great job on it, but again, that's just me. Granted, with close to 2400 hrs since launch, I may be a bit of an oddity. For me it's a world that I inhabit and journey through, at my own pace. That's a lovely thing.
Travel safe.