This game loves to waste our time.

[Benjaminius]

I spent most of my day today mining copper and tin. And by 'mining' I mean holding down the left mouse button. Was I having fun doing this? Sure, at first. But after the first 10 minutes or so, it became a massive boring grind.

I crafted it into gear. Then, I lost it all. It's a long story and I won't go into the details. But, I have zero chance of recovering my gear any time soon (already spent 2 hours attempting it).

So, what was the point of all that mining? I'll never get that time back.

I understand the fun of gathering resources and improving your equipment and all that. But, it is only fun in moderation. Why does resource gathering require such a massive time commitment in this game?

Gathering resources isn't challenging, it isn't engaging, it doesn't provide an interesting narrative, it doesn't require any skill, and it isn't particularly fun. It provides absolutely no benefit whatsoever other than those little calculated dopamine hits. The developers treat us like rats in a Skinner box, trapping us in an endless cycle of meaningless rewards.

I know why they do it. It extends play time. Which is a very important metric when it comes to the long-term success of a game. But, it turns a great game into a boring, mind numbing grindfest.

I know what you will say: 'if you don't like it, just play something else'. Problem is, I absolutely love Valheim. I think it's a fantastic game But, it has this one massive glaring flaw that completely ruins my enjoyment.

Yes, I'm walking away from the game (at least for the time being), but I'm walking away sad and frustrated. I really, really wanted to like this game.

I know most of you are probably still in school and have a huge amount of free time. So, maybe I'm in the minority here. But, I am interested in hearing your thoughts.

Edit:
A lot of people are misentrpreting my post. I think I was a bit too hyperbolic with my language or wasn't clear enough.

As somebody who has put countless hours into survival games, I think it takes too long to gather certain resources in Valheim and I think it needs to be adjusted. I was hoping to hear other people's thoughts. I'm not trying to attack anyone's hobby. Just start a dialogue.

It's very frustrating that most of the comments are completely off topic with many people attacking my opinion or offering very condescending advice that has nothing to do with the topic of the post.

[Jokawa]

Hey! I don't agree with you, but I understand where you're coming from. I often listen to audiobooks while I play and find it quite a relaxing slow experience. I highly recommend using mods to tweak drop rates if the grind is what is stopping you from enjoying the game, they are easy to install and readily available.

P.S "I know most of you are probably still in school and have a huge amount of free time." doesn't come off super great.

Cheers

[Dash Riprock]

Well frankly ALL videogaming is a epic waste of time but this game isn't any worst than any other IMO, the trick here is don't think because you made this armor or that weapon you can take risk and not pay a price for it, play smart play with patience, and unless you drove your Karve off the side of the world you 'can always' get your gear back, 'it can be done', stay clam and start playing 'smarter'. ;)

[.danyy]

You basicly descriped every suvrival game out there and blamed it on Valheim.

[Kerfana]

I never mine copper i get a Troll to do it for me !

[Wizard of Woz]

1. Use dev commands
2. Retrieve body
3. Profit

[Benjaminius]

Originally posted by Jokawa:

Hey! I don't agree with you, but I understand where you're coming from. I often listen to audiobooks while I play and find it quite a relaxing slow experience. I highly recommend using mods to tweak drop rates if the grind is what is stopping you from enjoying the game, they are easy to install and readily available.

P.S "I know most of you are probably still in school and have a huge amount of free time." doesn't come off super great.

Cheers

Not sure why that "doesn't come off super great." Most survival games have a young audience. Younger people have much more free time than someone with a full time job and other responsibilities. Not exactly a controversial statement.

[Benjaminius]

Originally posted by .danyy:

You basicly descriped every suvrival game out there and blamed it on Valheim.

I have a similar problem with other survival games as well. But, Valheim is particularly bad (at least in my opinion).

I think Minecraft generally does a good job with resource gathering. Diamonds are the only resource in that game that get tedious. So, it isn't that I have a problem with survival games in general. Just the ones that take up too much time.

[Benjaminius]

Originally posted by Major One:

Well frankly ALL videogaming is a epic waste of time but this game isn't any worst than any other IMO, the trick here is don't think because you made this armor or that weapon you can take risk and not pay a price for it, play smart play with patience, and unless you drove your Karve off the side of the world you 'can always' get your gear back, 'it can be done', stay clam and start playing 'smarter'. ;)

I disagree that all videogames are a waste of time. I think everybody on this site would disagree with that statement.

To go into a little bit more detail about how I lost the gear: The wind shifted unexpectadly and I ended up getting my ship stuck on rocks with some really powerful (presumably end-game level) creatures. They can all one shot me (even with the best armor currently available to me).

I was exploring far from base at the time, so it is a really long trek over there and I die as soon as I get anywhere near my gear. So it isn't really a matter of playing smarter. I just can't go back to that area until later in the game.

If I tried a few times, I could possibly find some way to lure the enemies away long enough to grab my stuff and log out. But, it is such a pain in the ass getting there that it isn't really worth it.

[Jim Lahey]

The thread title made me laugh.

"This game loves to waste our time."

Isn't the entire point of games and video games a way to waste our time as another way to "Pass The Time"?

[Benjaminius]

Originally posted by Jim Lahey:

The thread title made me laugh.

"This game loves to waste our time."

Isn't the entire point of games and video games a way to waste our time as another way to "Pass The Time"?

No, not at all. I think video games can tell great stories, allow us to be creative, express ourselves, overcome challenges, and have fun. Hardly a waste of time.

[ShadowBastard69]

eh i kind of agree with you on some points OP. For me I think most of these issues would be alleviated if there was multiplayer and dedicated servers like other games of this genre have. Hear me out. Valheim's map is HUGE (compared to something like conan exiles) but playing solo player theres almost no reason to go exploring all that vast world across the oceans other than just because. Since the worlds are so big they could support a large player pop per server, plenty of places for people to build stuff and pvp, or group up and go exploring or monster farming together.

Don't get me wrong I really love this game thats why i sank weeks of my free time into it, but it needs something more. The devs already announced they're working on adding content as far as new things to explore and whatnot but man I really wish I could play this game with other people.

[Macdallan]

Unfortunately (unless it was a glitch that got you) you made mistakes and now you're paying for those mistakes. Lost time, lost gear, lost skill is the punishment for dying. It's supposed to be a brutal survival game, and it really isn't that bad for the most part. The one aspect that could be considered brutal kicks in when you mess up big and die. It's like that for a reason, it's not supposed to feel good when your character dies. Too many games make it too easy to recover, and honestly it's usually not really all that bad in Valheim. Your stuff isn't deleted. Your character isn't reset to zero skills. It could be a lot worse.

You have options. You can do what wizard_of_woz suggested. You can grab some of your old gear and go get your stuff back carefully. Build a small base with a spawn point nearby so if you die again it won't take long to get back to it. You can make new stuff or upgrade your previous gear a little and just move to the next biome, the next resources. It's pretty rare that you absolutely need everything fully upgraded. Grab enough ore for a good shield and weapon then move on - carefully.

If you spent 2 hours trying to get your gear back and failed to do so then you've got to try something different. This game rewards planning and preparation, and sometimes you just have to cut your losses if you can't figure out a way to recover your gear. If you don't want to use dev commands (cheats) to get your stuff back, and none of these options appeal to you then you also have the option to ask another player to jump in with you to help you get your stuff back.

As for the tin and copper mining grind maybe you're spending too much time doing the same thing. Collect 10 or 20 ore, go back to the smelter then go hunting. Find a burial chamber. Build something. Just do something else while it smelts. Then go grab 10 or 20 more ore later and repeat. Don't sit in one place grinding ore all day or you will probably get bored. I don't find tin all that bad because you can find a few nodes as you explore and you aren't sitting in one spot harvesting for a fairly long time. Copper, and later iron, are the worst because they do take a bit more time. Still, you don't have to collect all that much copper since there's no need to fully upgrade a full bronze set of gear unless you're really struggling with the Elder or combat in general. I do think they could give a better bronze yield instead of the current 3:1 ratio and if they did it would cut down on the grind significantly without making progression too easy.

I found Minecraft far more of a grind than Valheim, maybe it's what you're choosing to do in the game.

Originally posted by Benjaminius:

Originally posted by Major One:

Well frankly ALL videogaming is a epic waste of time but this game isn't any worst than any other IMO, the trick here is don't think because you made this armor or that weapon you can take risk and not pay a price for it, play smart play with patience, and unless you drove your Karve off the side of the world you 'can always' get your gear back, 'it can be done', stay clam and start playing 'smarter'. ;)

I disagree that all videogames are a waste of time. I think everybody on this site would disagree with that statement.

To go into a little bit more detail about how I lost the gear: The wind shifted unexpectadly and I ended up getting my ship stuck on rocks with some really powerful (presumably end-game level) creatures. They can all one shot me (even with the best armor currently available to me).

I was exploring far from base at the time, so it is a really long trek over there and I die as soon as I get anywhere near my gear. So it isn't really a matter of playing smarter. I just can't go back to that area until later in the game.

If I tried a few times, I could possibly find some way to lure the enemies away long enough to grab my stuff and log out. But, it is such a pain in the ass getting there that it isn't really worth it.

Thanks for explaining a bit more. The wind shifting unexpectedly didn't cause the problem, you weren't paying enough attention while sailing. The wind doesn't push your boat significantly when it changes and you should have plenty of time to notice it and adjust before it was too late. If you got stuck on rocks near the shore then you were too close to the shore where the enemies could be. Try to stay a good distance from any shore while exploring on the water. I'm not trying to be harsh here, it's just that most deaths in Valheim are due to a player choice or mistake and it sounds like you made a couple mistakes. It's painful, but you can recover. I've been able to recover from every mistake I made, even when I ended up in the plains and got one-shotted.

You can absolutely change your tactics, which could amount to playing smarter. Find a safer spot nearby to land, build a small base - bring the materials with you so you don't have to gather materials which will increase your risk. Get a bench down quickly and slap up a small base just large enough for a bed with a fire nearby so you can set a spawn there. Have a spare karve or raft back at your main base in case this goes sideways, that way you can get back and recover. Ideally build a teleporter as well so you can get your gear and retreat quickly, this would also allow you to spawn back at your base and then teleport to the area where your gear was lost. I'm assuming you have access to teleporters since you're running around in a Karve and exploring.

[Benjaminius]

Originally posted by Opiate666:

eh i kind of agree with you on some points OP. For me I think most of these issues would be alleviated if there was multiplayer and dedicated servers like other games of this genre have. Hear me out. Valheim's map is HUGE (compared to something like conan exiles) but playing solo player theres almost no reason to go exploring all that vast world across the oceans other than just because. Since the worlds are so big they could support a large player pop per server, plenty of places for people to build stuff and pvp, or group up and go exploring or monster farming together.

Don't get me wrong I really love this game thats why i sank weeks of my free time into it, but it needs something more. The devs already announced they're working on adding content as far as new things to explore and whatnot but man I really wish I could play this game with other people.

I agree with that. Having multiple people to help gather resources would alleviate the issue.

[Benjaminius]

Originally posted by Macdallan:

Unfortunately you made mistakes and now you're paying for those mistakes. Lost time, lost gear, lost skill is the punishment for dying. It's supposed to be a brutal survival game, and it really isn't that bad for the most part. The one aspect that could be considered brutal kicks in when you mess up big and die. It's like that for a reason, it's not supposed to feel good when your character dies. Too many games make it too easy to recover, and honestly it's usually not really all that bad in Valheim. Your stuff isn't deleted. Your character isn't reset to zero skills. It could be a lot worse.

You have options. You can do what wizard_of_woz suggested. You can grab some of your old gear and go get your stuff back carefully. Build a small base with a spawn point nearby so if you die again it won't take long to get back to it. You can make new stuff or upgrade your previous gear a little and just move to the next biome, the next resources. It's pretty rare that you absolutely need everything fully upgraded. Grab enough ore for a good shield and weapon then move on - carefully.

If you spent 2 hours trying to get your gear back and failed to do so then you've got to try something different. This game rewards planning and preparation, and sometimes you just have to cut your losses if you can't figure out a way to recover your gear. If you don't want to use dev commands (cheats) to get your stuff back, and none of these options appeal to you then you also have the option to ask another player to jump in with you to help you get your stuff back.

As for the tin and copper mining grind maybe you're spending too much time doing the same thing. Collect 10 or 20 ore, go back to the smelter then go hunting. Find a burial chamber. Build something. Just do something else while it smelts. Then go grab 10 or 20 more ore later and repeat. Don't sit in one place grinding ore all day or you will probably get bored. I don't find tin all that bad because you can find a few nodes as you explore and you aren't sitting in one spot harvesting for a fairly long time. Copper, and later iron, are the worst because they do take a bit more time. Still, you don't have to collect all that much copper since there's no need to fully upgrade a full bronze set of gear unless you're really struggling with the Elder or combat in general. I do think they could give a better bronze yield instead of the current 3:1 ratio and if they did it would cut down on the grind significantly without making progression too easy.

think you missed the point of the thread. I'm frustrated with how long it takes to gather resources. Doing something else for a while doesn't do anything to alleviate the issue. It still takes a ridiculous amount of time to gather what I need.

I know it's my fault I lost my gear. I know there are multiple ways I could try to get my gear back. That isn't the issue.

[Skeeks]

Originally posted by Benjaminius:

Originally posted by Jokawa:

Hey! I don't agree with you, but I understand where you're coming from. I often listen to audiobooks while I play and find it quite a relaxing slow experience. I highly recommend using mods to tweak drop rates if the grind is what is stopping you from enjoying the game, they are easy to install and readily available.

P.S "I know most of you are probably still in school and have a huge amount of free time." doesn't come off super great.

Cheers

Not sure why that "doesn't come off super great." Most survival games have a young audience. Younger people have much more free time than someone with a full time job and other responsibilities. Not exactly a controversial statement.

It comes off condescending. Like youre a parent explaining that you have more important things to do than the rest of us so we "may not understand". If you cant see how that doesnt come off great then I'd suggest you may not be know your audience as well as you're assuming. btw I am 34, a physician and have 5 kids. Cant speak for everyone, but yes my time is very limited. I empathize with your lost time but I think the aspects of the game you are referring to are what makes it the genre that it is and changing it to be less time intensive would make it a totally different game.