Death penalty is just too much

[Soondead]

I just fell of a roof trying for three in-game days to snap a damned dragon head ornament to my building and lost about one week of skill progress IRL. I don't think my axe, bow or block skills will ever get past 20. Moving out of the bronze age seems pretty much impossible since anything beyond Black Forest means instantly losing several days worth of progress. Sure, I get my equipment back thanks to portals but I can't hit or block anything.

Seriously, between getting one-shotted by monsters to stupidly falling to my death, I'm getting to a point where this is no longer fun. It's just too unforgiving.

[mr.tajny]

It seems your skill lvls just reflect your clumsiness. As well as your nickname does.

[Shurenai]

You lose 5% of your experience in each skill per death. Below 20, that means losing 1 skill level, basically.

And, the effects of the skills are not so impactful as you might think in most cases. It's small boons, but, the difference level to level isn't enough to make a difference in say, the number of attacks required to kill an enemy.

EG: Taking out the RNG elements, assuming the enemy has 100 HP, and You deal 25 damage at level 1 skill. It would take 4 hits to kill it. All the way up to level 22 it would still take 4 hits to kill it. At level 23 you would finally kill that enemy in 3 hits; from which it would take all the way to skill level 67 before you can 2 shot that enemy.


Yes, Having the skills is nice- But they're supplemental, and not really worth being really upset about. You need to be refining your personal skills in combat, learning when to dodge, when to attack, what you can get away with, when to run, etc- Skill levels will come in time if you don't die. You can beat the game with level 0 skills, if YOU are good at it. The skills are the frosting, not the cake.

And for non-combat...Learn to build scaffolding, and never fall again. Stop trying to stand around on the corner of your slippery roof and build something to stand on and build from.

[Schrompf]

I'm quite tired of all the people coming up with excuses why *they* personally think that skill loss is fine and how exactly the game is supposed to be played *by everyone*.

I play this with my friends. We have a private pw-protected server, and we spend some time together in this game at late evening after job is done, house chores are done, children were put to sleep, mails and letters are handled... you get the point. We have a few hours, once or twice per week. And because of this silly skill loss we'll probably never hit lvl20 in any skill except maybe wood chopping. And simple server-side bool would make this bearable. Maybe I can actually sneak up to a Draugr if I get to lvl50, who knows? I'll never know, not with the current skill loss mechanics.

But you all spittle and jammer like it would be the game's demise to have the *option*.

[Shurenai]

Originally posted by Schrompf:

I'm quite tired of all the people coming up with excuses why *they* personally think that skill loss is fine and how exactly the game is supposed to be played *by everyone*.

I play this with my friends. We have a private pw-protected server, and we spend some time together in this game at late evening after job is done, house chores are done, children were put to sleep, mails and letters are handled... you get the point. We have a few hours, once or twice per week. And because of this silly skill loss we'll probably never hit lvl20 in any skill except maybe wood chopping. And simple server-side bool would make this bearable. Maybe I can actually sneak up to a Draugr if I get to lvl50, who knows? I'll never know, not with the current skill loss mechanics.

But you all spittle and jammer like it would be the game's demise to have the *option*.

You can sneak up on a draugr at level 0... It's less about the sneak skill, More about your personal sneaking abilities. Trying to approach a mob in full sunlight while it's facing you is going to get you caught whether you're at level 0 or level 100 sneaking.

Sneak does modify a mobs visibility range, letting you get closer to them when they're facing you; But the effects of the skill, unlike most of the others, are non-linear and heavily frontloaded. By level 20 you've gotten a significant portion of the effects of the skill.

It's much more important to stay in the shadows, and out of the frontal view cone to begin with than it is to have the skill leveled, as when you're sneaking you make no sound and the only way something can detect you is if it's facing your way and you're within the modified vision range. Even having 100 sneak skill isn't going to save you from being seen sneaking up on something from it's front side.


I don't personally mind if they add the Option. I'm also not spittling and jammering. I am however stating the fact(Not a personal opinion) that the levelable skills have FAR less impact on the overall gameplay than some players seem to think. Level by level, the impact of the skills are literally minor.

A 1.5% (additive) increase in damage per weapon skill level, for example- As described in my first post, It's numerous skill levels in the range of 15-30 before you see an appreciable effect on how quick you kill enemies(Read: The number of hits it takes)- Most of the time, you're not going to notice it's effect, though. You're not going to be able to tell the difference between level 18 and level 19 in practice.


TL;DR: No amount of levels in the skills is going to save you from a bad decision, a mistake, poor planning or straight up bad luck. It might add minor amounts of padding to offer a tiny amount of wiggle room- But, chances are, if you screwed up, it's done. If you screw up and sneak in front of something, it's going to see you, with low skill or high. Your personal game knowledge and abilities make a much bigger difference than the skills do, by like 99:1.

[ＩＤＲＡＧＹＯＵＴＯＨＥＬＬ]

Originally posted by Schrompf:

I'm quite tired of all the people coming up with excuses why *they* personally think that skill loss is fine and how exactly the game is supposed to be played *by everyone*.

I play this with my friends. We have a private pw-protected server, and we spend some time together in this game at late evening after job is done, house chores are done, children were put to sleep, mails and letters are handled... you get the point. We have a few hours, once or twice per week. And because of this silly skill loss we'll probably never hit lvl20 in any skill except maybe wood chopping. And simple server-side bool would make this bearable. Maybe I can actually sneak up to a Draugr if I get to lvl50, who knows? I'll never know, not with the current skill loss mechanics.

But you all spittle and jammer like it would be the game's demise to have the *option*.

Sure having an easy option wouldn't hurt, but I've never even needed lvl 20 in anything I just play the game and do fine without it so actually idk why experience is even a big deal in the first place.

[loppantorkel]

Originally posted by Schrompf:

I'm quite tired of all the people coming up with excuses why *they* personally think that skill loss is fine and how exactly the game is supposed to be played *by everyone*.

I play this with my friends. We have a private pw-protected server, and we spend some time together in this game at late evening after job is done, house chores are done, children were put to sleep, mails and letters are handled... you get the point. We have a few hours, once or twice per week. And because of this silly skill loss we'll probably never hit lvl20 in any skill except maybe wood chopping. And simple server-side bool would make this bearable. Maybe I can actually sneak up to a Draugr if I get to lvl50, who knows? I'll never know, not with the current skill loss mechanics.

But you all spittle and jammer like it would be the game's demise to have the *option*.

People are free to complain about the game being too difficult, penalties too severe, ladders too hard to climb, etc, just as much as people are in the right to defend the current state. I doubt people would jump in to excuse the current state if the OP or yourself asked for a more casual option, instead of exclaming that the penalties are too severe and the person at hand can't level his character as fast as he wishes. See the difference?

I believe the current skill loss is decent as it is. I don't want the 'normal game experience' to be easier or cheapened, but I also wouldn't mind if the devs implemented a more casual mode when they find the time to do so.

[mr.tajny]

Originally posted by Schrompf:

I'm quite tired of all the people coming up with excuses why *they* personally think that skill loss is fine and how exactly the game is supposed to be played *by everyone*.

One could also say "I'm quite tired of all the people coming up with rants why *they* personally think that skill loss is something 'just too much' and how exactly the game is supposed to be played *by everyone*."
Games have rules. Live with it or mod the game or just play something with rules that suit your expectations better.

[Pantstron]

It's okay to lose levels, having higher levels ain't gonna mean anything if you die all the time. Keep playing, it's all practice and eventually your skill levels will match how good you are. Go play, have fun, the skill levels mean bugger all, I killed Yag with nothing over 50, prob most were under 40

[GunsForBucks]

Game is advertised as being "brutal" ... once you know what you are doing it isn't too difficult at all... the actual "brutal" part is the death mechanic.

It IS unforgiving for a reason... the game is easy enough, it needs a way to teach you things.. the pain of loss should make you rethink what you are doing.

In terms of building there are two key factors you should be aware of.

First - Maximum fall damage is 100. You could fall from another planet and still be fine if your health is over 100.

Second - You can dismantle, at no cost, anything you build. You could have put up a 3 piece wide staircase to where you were going and just removed it later.

Keep in mind these are valuable things to know and learn. You will need this knowledge later when you have to climb high into trees for a resource.

[GunsForBucks]

Originally posted by Fzanco:

It's okay to lose levels, having higher levels ain't gonna mean anything if you die all the time. Keep playing, it's all practice and eventually your skill levels will match how good you are. Go play, have fun, the skill levels mean bugger all, I killed Yag with nothing over 50, prob most were under 40

Frankly those are typical numbers if you just play the game.

Considering the game is only about half done it seems about right to me.

[Pantstron]

Originally posted by GunsForBucks:

Originally posted by Fzanco:

It's okay to lose levels, having higher levels ain't gonna mean anything if you die all the time. Keep playing, it's all practice and eventually your skill levels will match how good you are. Go play, have fun, the skill levels mean bugger all, I killed Yag with nothing over 50, prob most were under 40

Frankly those are typical numbers if you just play the game.

Considering the game is only about half done it seems about right to me.

Exactly, no need to worry if your levels are struggling to get to 30 when your only in swamp or even moutnains, they'll get higher in time

[Archie]

i understand your feelings it is very frustrating but actually like most things you , surprisingly get the hang of it after some game time and get used to all the pit falls but still get wiped but not to badly.
So don't give up! You are frustrated at the moment so just have a break for a day or 2 and you will be surprised how you progress and learn to avoid the loss of experience points.
You will unfortunately get really frustrated with the death skitas and goblins they are one hit wonders but you find it is ok once you have a few successes and with really good armour, wolf armour is when it gets good and good weapons you find it ok .
You just get used to it.
Good luck old boy are you old or something with a funny - i am giggling , name like you have.

[Lovecraft's Cat]

Most deaths can be avoided by playing more carefully. For example, one can eat some food before working on a roof. Or, one can carefully scout out a location and snipe/kite enemies instead of barging in haphazardly. Heck, raise the ground with a hoe and shoot them if they're too tough to fight hand-to-hand.

[Mharr]

There are of course mods that reduce death penalties in various ways, one of the less obvious is https://valheim.thunderstore.io/package/Azumatt/WardIsLove which can create large zones of zero skill loss (and other effects) to protect your bases. As a fellow idiot builder I find this extremely helpful.

Edit: Alternatively you can just have it freeze the timer on active food buffs while you're in the base, which makes not building with 25hp super easy.

[fligmin]

I love the skill loss. I play a few games with a friend of mine and he is more the fighter non builder and has to have the best armour the biggest gun but other things that should be important are not. DST we made 1 year a few times never really got off the main island or explored the caves simply cause he cared not about home or the long game and death after death was well so what, go get his body and die again, just run out in the middle of night without making any new tool or having them already in a box, He would not look to see if night was coming or any of that and just die again and again till there was only restart as an option

GRRRRR I build for the long game and we never got past mid game in a real year of life.

Now comes this game and you know we made the last boss in game ATM and have restarted.

Finally as skills matter to him (a number) he finally is beginning to think and plan, I see wisdom rather the just go go go Die die die.

I booted him out of my house to boot he even is building his own, yet we are linked and run together. Honestly the skill loss made him a way better player and partner. He plays a little more wise yet still get us into binds for no reason (ways to go) lol but I laugh now cause MR has to have the best armour dies in the swamp stupid like while My stats roar ahead of him and im in troll or root gear. Im trying light armour this run. Hope the new stuff is good in plains.

Its made a little fun competition with our stats and stupid deaths.