Dropping your items doesn't make much sense

[Sparky]

Wait hear me out.

So I'm not mad at dropping your items or anything, just a little confused. I've beaten every boss so far and have well over 100 hours in the game but I still don't see the point in dropping your items.

If you die you already get hit brutally with a stat-wide level removal which is more than enough incentive to not die, especially if you have stats over 50 because levels take longer and longer to grind out. I actually like this mechanic a lot and wouldn't change much of anything about it.

Dropping your items just wastes your time though. You won't lose more levels by running back to your body and dying because you have immunity to it for a few minutes and there's no reason to not just run back to your body as many times as it takes. Mechanically speaking, dropping items on death adds nothing to this game because it doesn't use this mechanic in an interesting way. They're just there until you run back to them and run away.

With the sheer level of grind in this game I don't think removing your items forever is a viable fix (like what minecraft does) because of the almost aggressive time-sink mid and late-game items require. So one of the only other things I can think of is to just remove the item drop all together (but definitely keep the skill loss).

Again, not mad at it, I just legitimately don't see the point. I know some people really like it though so maybe add a server option to toggle item drop off and on depending on preferred play style?

Edit: To clarify a little more, the mechanic seems confused. It starts by punishing you (which is good), by making you drop your items. But then the punishment is lost because those items will never go away. Essentially all you have to do it run up, slam e, run away and it's like nothing ever happened. It isn't punishing, but it is boring.

As a simple example, Minecraft will make you lose your stuff forever if you take too long or die near fire/lava which is brutal but interesting. But you can't really do that with Valheim because you could easily lose days of progress due to the grind. So instead you get a half-effort kind of thing. It wants to punish you, but it kinda can't.

I think a better solution would be...
A: Lower the grind but make it so it's possible to lose your stuff forever.
B: Make it a toggle option for the server.
C: Remove it and instead make you lose multiple skill levels on death with no death protection for skill loss.
D: A combination of the above.

I do actually really like this game though. This mechanic just bugs me as it's currently implemented.

[Polaris]

At least for me, that inconvenience is what keep some terrified of dying ;D

Late game, the loss of skills is by far the most punishing aspect of death, but when your first starting out, death wouldn't have any real penalty at all if you kept your items, you would literally have nothing to lose, so why not just build a bed near a troll cave and punch a troll to death?


That being said, I would be totally fine with a toggle option, to each their own :D

[GinsengSamurai]

Basically, as I mentioned in the future, I hope IG implement new world customisation in the form of toggles, sliders, and numeric variables to denote certain things like spawn rates, etc. Give solo adventures and server admins a means to create their own rules within the confines of the Valheim capabilities.

[Sparky]

Originally posted by GinsengSamurai:

Basically, as I mentioned in the future, I hope IG implement new world customisation in the form of toggles, sliders, and numeric variables to denote certain things like spawn rates, etc. Give solo adventures and server admins a means to create their own rules within the confines of the Valheim capabilities.

I think that would strike the perfect balance :>

[Lord Maelstrom]

because risk

[Grailoch]

I mean, how long do the same subjects need to be rehashed? Dropping items on death and corpse runs have been a thing in these games since before many of the players of this game were born. There are reasons for it. Without it, there is nothing stopping you from running into any situation with any skill/gear level and not have concern. I can loot what I want and not worry about fighting my way out, because I get a free teleport home, fully geared and with loot, if I just take the death.

[Sparky]

Originally posted by Grailoch:

I mean, how long do the same subjects need to be rehashed? Dropping items on death and corpse runs have been a thing in these games since before many of the players of this game were born. There are reasons for it. Without it, there is nothing stopping you from running into any situation with any skill/gear level and not have concern. I can loot what I want and not worry about fighting my way out, because I get a free teleport home, fully geared and with loot, if I just take the death.

Dropping your items on death actually wasn't a very common mechanic until around the time Minecraft came out. There are a few games that did it, but not many. Mostly you'd just either lose, lose a life, lose score, or go back to a checkpoint on death. (Or a combination)

That being said, I actually have the opposite opinion. If it was just dropping my items I wouldn't care about dying. All I'd have to do it run back, slam e, run away. Which is why I think it's implemented poorly. The main driving force to avoid death is skill loss, especially since weapon skills can buff your damage up to around an extra %130 damage. Item drop is just wasting time as it currently stands as you physically can't lose your items, just 'misplace' them.

Though, like I said above, I realise some people really like it so just straight up removing it wouldn't be the best idea. A toggle option would probably be best (which most games like this actually already implement).

[warrenchmobile]

I am Balder and Odin raised me from the dead with just a loincloth in Valheim. He wants me to take over the place and defeat his exiled enemies. Pretty tall order for a viking with just a loincloth. Where is all the stuff I had when I died? I guess he could not move physical items to Valheim. He had to settle for moving my spirit here and then giving it physical form. Or perhaps it is just against his natureor a viking to be born or reborn with physical possessions.

So if Odin can resurrect me if I die here in Valheim, I should not expect to retain whatever possessions I might have acquired. What would be the point?

[Grailoch]

Originally posted by zxzc77:

Dropping your items on death actually wasn't a very common mechanic until around the time Minecraft came out.

Not sure what games you played, but Any RPG I ever played dropped items or left a corpse.

Everquest, Dungeon Siege, WoW, and many other RPGs were this way, all around year 2000

Most RPGs from before that time were just permadeath and you restart the game when you died.

[Sparky]

Originally posted by Grailoch:

Originally posted by zxzc77:

Dropping your items on death actually wasn't a very common mechanic until around the time Minecraft came out.

Not sure what games you played, but Any RPG I ever played dropped items or left a corpse.

Everquest, Dungeon Siege, WoW, and many other RPGs were this way, all around year 2000

Most RPGs from before that time were just permadeath and you restart the game when you died.

You don't drop your items on death in those games. In the first two you don't even have to do a corpse run. In Dungeon Siege specifically you just load a save. In current WoW there are only corpse runs in the open world and even then I think you can avoid it.

Again there really aren't many games before minecraft that had item dropping. There are some for sure, but it wasn't popular.

[Grailoch]

Originally posted by zxzc77:

Originally posted by Grailoch:

Not sure what games you played, but Any RPG I ever played dropped items or left a corpse.

Everquest, Dungeon Siege, WoW, and many other RPGs were this way, all around year 2000

Most RPGs from before that time were just permadeath and you restart the game when you died.

You don't drop your items on death in those games. In the first two you don't even have to do a corpse run. In Dungeon Siege specifically you just load a save. In current WoW there are only corpse runs in the open world and even then I think you can avoid it.

Noob shows noobness.

In dungeon siege, when you died your items spit up all over the area you died. The only way to get back was to have a resurrect spell cast on your corpse. Yes, you could go back to a prior save point before you died. You can do this in Valheim, though it would be a manual operation currently.

Everquest certainly had corpse runs. In fact, I have never played a version of it that did not. It was a big thing and you never wanted to go into zones deeper than you were able to.

WoW basically tried to piggyback off Everquest's success so copied alot of their ideas. Made certain things easier on playes, but iirc still had corpse runs.

Maybe over time all the whiney-butt players were all that were left, so these games decided to remove things like corpse runs. The games were already dead or dying by that time.

[Sparky]

Originally posted by Grailoch:

Originally posted by zxzc77:

You don't drop your items on death in those games. In the first two you don't even have to do a corpse run. In Dungeon Siege specifically you just load a save. In current WoW there are only corpse runs in the open world and even then I think you can avoid it.

Noob shows noobness.

I've literally beaten Dungeon Siege and Legends of Arana
I even have the physical coppies.

[Nascarman]

The actual game is too easy to not take your items away. It’s how the game generates “difficulty” as without it there’s really no reason to care about death. Place a bed near a boss and you’d be able to cheese every boss in the game as you respawn with no penalty (as after the first death you lose no skills) so there’s 0 reason to prepare around not dying when the consequences are limited.

[Sparky]

Originally posted by Nascarman:

The actual game is too easy to not take your items away. It’s how the game generates “difficulty” as without it there’s really no reason to care about death. Place a bed near a boss and you’d be able to cheese every boss in the game as you respawn with no penalty (as after the first death you lose no skills) so there’s 0 reason to prepare around not dying when the consequences are limited.

Honestly that just leads into the second major issue which is how boring the bosses are. But I feel like removing the skill-loss-prevention after death and keeping your stuff would be a better system then what they currently have. That way every single death beats you down, but you don't have to do corpse runs.

[Nascarman]

Originally posted by zxzc77:

Originally posted by Nascarman:

The actual game is too easy to not take your items away. It’s how the game generates “difficulty” as without it there’s really no reason to care about death. Place a bed near a boss and you’d be able to cheese every boss in the game as you respawn with no penalty (as after the first death you lose no skills) so there’s 0 reason to prepare around not dying when the consequences are limited.

Honestly that just leads into the second major issue which is how boring the bosses are. But I feel like removing the skill-loss-prevention after death and keeping your stuff would be a better system then what they currently have. That way every single death beats you down, but you don't have to do corpse runs.

You can’t remove the skill loss prevention as someone accidentally dying a ton would ruin their character. The fact that you lose your items is meant to discourage you from dying without ruining your character file, the challenge really is to avoid dying as actually beating bosses and other stuff is easy. If you find yourself doing many corpse runs, then there’s something wrong with how you are doing things. Going 100+ days without dying should not be hard to do, so if it is for you, there’s something you aren’t doing right.

[Sparky]

Originally posted by Nascarman:

Originally posted by zxzc77:

Honestly that just leads into the second major issue which is how boring the bosses are. But I feel like removing the skill-loss-prevention after death and keeping your stuff would be a better system then what they currently have. That way every single death beats you down, but you don't have to do corpse runs.

You can’t remove the skill loss prevention as someone accidentally dying a ton would ruin their character. The fact that you lose your items is meant to discourage you from dying without ruining your character file, the challenge really is to avoid dying as actually beating bosses and other stuff is easy. If you find yourself doing many corpse runs, then there’s something wrong with how you are doing things. Going 100+ days without dying should not be hard to do, so if it is for you, there’s something you aren’t doing right.

Well I've only died like 5 or 6 times in my entire time playing and honestly I don't think that fits with the vibe of the game. It's really easy for a game that's supposed to be difficult. Also if you die a lot, your skills should get smacked down. Like everybody's saying, death should be feared and avoided. If you die, you should be properly punished. It's a rough punishment but one you can come back from if you play around it. The item dropping is just boring and serves no purpose. You can just run into the middle of a boss fight, slam e, and run away with all your stuff no problem. Can't do the same with skill loss.

What I'm saying is the item dropping is mechanically boring. It doesn't add or take away anything. It's just kind of there. Skill loss on the other hand has a longer term impact and requires you to sometimes change up your play style to play around it. It's more impactful and interesting.