Bow Balance (Is it Cheese?)

[AMURKA]

I've been thinking about how, from the very first bow I got my hands on, all the way up to Draugr Fang... Bows make the game go from "OMG I'm out of stamina AGAIN and can't block or run!" to "EZ PZ shoot em in the knees-y" Why would I ever expose myself to the punishing stamina-heavy combat system when I can simply shoot enemies from afar?

Even with the best armor and shields, with the way stamina works in this game, damage translates directly into your stamina bar disappearing (without parries). I'm not quite sure how blocking a single blow with my massive shield can take away more stamina than a whole minute of running, but I guess that's how they want it... Because of this. If you run out of stamina you basically can't defend yourself anymore AND you now can't run away either.

I feel like the way I play the game is probably how many people will also approach combat: Use arrows on a new enemy until you understand how it moves and fights. Get a feel for how strong it is by seeing how much of its HP bar disappears with each arrow... If it's really tough maybe use some of your GOOD arrows :P... until maybe later on after you get a new weapon and armor and now can stop wasting arrows to kill them because even if they hit you now, it'll only take off like 4 health.

If this game didn't have bows...the difficulty would be 10x what it is, and people would die 20x more. Imagine taking on a wolf or two for the first time with only Troll armor and melee weapons. Well I DID, and lost 75% health in one hit I didn't block and 75% stamina in one hit that I DID block....Same goes with fighting a Troll with only a club and NOT just cheesing it with arrows while you backtrack....

Bosses too. So until I had enough stamina to be able to properly parry and melee, I killed the first boss with a bow. Eventually I learned to parry it. 2nd boss I used ONLY arrows while hiding behind pillars. 3rd boss I built a tree-house and shot it from high above, without it ever being able to touch me.

Bows change the game entirely. They make it too easy...and at the same time since enemies need to be balanced for ALL the weapons, all the melee weapons pale in comparison. I feel like they should replace bows with throwing axes, and re-balance the combat to have a separate movement stamina bar and a combat stamina bar... I don't feel like a true Viking using bows this much...
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POLL: What do you use to kill each enemy type?
1-Trolls (does anyone actually melee fight these?)
2-Wolves (Anyone with less than silver gear use melee?)
3-Deathsquito (do you ACTUALLY risk it with melee when you can just 1 shot them with a bow?)
4-Has ANYONE killed a boss other than the first one with melee weapons only?

I'd love to hear how others feel about this. Am I the only one that feels bows make the game too easy? (Not saying the game is actually easy...but just imagine the game WITHOUT bows...ugh)

[The Waffle that Lurks]

I'm working towards the 3rd boss now but I Mostly Melee except for bigger threats that deal loads of damage. Bows don't need a rebalance because almost everyone shifts back to melee once the bigger threats are down.

Because of the ammo system you don't have infinite arrows and you are extremely slow while aiming and you have to charge each shot.

Melee actually out DPSes Ranged by a hefty amount. (6 shots for an Elite Dragur with Iron Arrows on a Fine Wood Bow level 3 and 3 slaps with my Iron Axe level 3 after a Parry)

[AMURKA]

Well.. hitting any enemy while they're staggered guarantees a crit, so comparing crit-hits with a melee weapon to arrow hits isn't really a fair comparison, but it's good to hear how others play.

I understand my iron mace does wonders to a crowd and one hits all meadow creatures, but even with higher DPS, engaging in combat still exposes yourself to hits too. Yea with most enemies now I definitely just do the "wait for them to swing, parry, then counterattack" thing, but for new or really dangerous enemies its still the trusty bow..

[jmido8]

Yeah, bows are too strong. Until we get more anti-bow monsters they'll probably stay that way. Need monsters that swarm, are fast and hard to hit.

1) Trolls - They're quite easy to beat melee once you hit the iron age. I actually wish there were varients of trolls though, specifically fast ones (slightly weaker) so you're forced to try and escape or fight melee. Early game kiting kind of kills the difficulty.
2) Wolves - wolves are quite easy to kill with iron stuff if you parry.
3) Deathsquito- These are better to just shoot with a wood arrow bc of how deadly they are if you miss the parry. Actually I think they're a very nice anti-melee creature.
4) Bosses- Bosses like bone mass are anti-bow unless you use the cheese strat on the internet. But why do that when he's so easy to kill with poison pots and blunt weapons.

[Madix]

Beat the game (well, all 5 bosses) with a friend and we both mostly used 2nd-3rd tier bows and troll armor. I am a very melee mentality person but bows are just too strong for the reasons you mentioned. Melee is kind of frustrating with height variances causing you to miss so much and the stam cost of blocking is not worth it unless you perfect block everything. Meanwhile I just use a finewood bow and can kill pretty much everything while slowly walking backwards. The fact that bows stagger and put enemies in critical state so easily may be the biggest cheese element. Wolves are dangerous but 1 shot usually stops them and the second usually kills.

They feel like they negate the whole reason for progression in the game. I was planning on sacrificing the move speed to get all silver armor but I never felt the need to. Deathsquitos were annoying at first but they become pretty easy once you realize they die in 1 shot to everything and are the only enemy that won't aggro if you miss a bow shot. I do think when they are aggro on you and there's more than 1, you're much better off pulling out a 2 hand hammer and smacking the ground- it will 1 shot all of them in a pretty big radius.

-I will say the 3rd boss Bonemass) is the only exception. Bow is pretty terrible on him as he heals and is resistant to pierce. He's about 10x easier with a generic mace. Golems are also a waste of arrows but still a lot more dependable than going into melee with them and rolling after every single hit with a mace.

[The Waffle that Lurks]

Originally posted by AMURKA:

Well.. hitting any enemy while they're staggered guarantees a crit, so comparing crit-hits with a melee weapon to arrow hits isn't really a fair comparison, but it's good to hear how others play.

I understand my iron mace does wonders to a crowd and one hits all meadow creatures, but even with higher DPS, engaging in combat still exposes yourself to hits too. Yea with most enemies now I definitely just do the "wait for them to swing, parry, then counterattack" thing, but for new or really dangerous enemies its still the trusty bow..

Its a risk vs reward system with Ranged vs Melee.

Melee hits harder and more consistently because ideally you would be parrying and then taking your enemy down in just a few slaps. Against a crowd the advantage is even bigger! Arrows hit 1 enemy and deal damage you use a melee weapon and you can slap down 2, 3, 4+ enemies and if you stagger them you will kill them all.

Ranged is frankly safer and allows you to use terrain to your advantage as well as distance. The trade-off being single target damage and a slow attack rate.

[Karax]

Yes, trolls are pretty easy to kill in melle as long as you carefully manage your stamina, you just have to dodge right before they attck, and then you can keep sticking you weapon at their balls

[Neyreyan_Youtube]

Well, bow is pretty weak against more enemies. Sadly outside of the swamp.invasion to your base there is no other event to show this
Its a good balance, you have to save up a lot of resources to make bows work as opposes to simply craft something

[Zairev]

Originally posted by AMURKA:

I'm not quite sure how blocking a single blow with my massive shield can take away more stamina than a whole minute of running.

Thats because your blocking skill sucks. I parrying most stuff with abysall knife without any dmg, and heavy attacks (stone golems, bosses, trolls) with shield.
PS: Knifes are imho best weapon... they are super fast, do ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ of crit damage and eat little to none stamina.

Originally posted by AMURKA:

I feel like the way I play the game is probably how many people will also approach combat: Use arrows

Yes, exactly, thats why there are people crying about bonemass being op, while hes actualyl super easy in meele.

Originally posted by AMURKA:

If this game didn't have bows...the difficulty would be 10x what it is, and people would die 20x more. Imagine taking on a wolf or two for the first time with only Troll armor and melee weapons.

You are supposed to have iron gear when goin in mountains, not 2 tiers lower one.
Imagine for example in wow goin on raid in green gear.... omg, its so hard, why i am dying, nerf pls.

Originally posted by AMURKA:

I don't feel like a true Viking using bows this much...

Then dont use bows this much.

Originally posted by AMURKA:

POLL: What do you use to kill each enemy type?

1-Trolls (does anyone actually melee fight these?)

Knife backstab (its oneshot). Before i had some skills in knifes, fully upgraded bronze shield can fully block Troll attack (ofc you need some blocking skill).

Originally posted by AMURKA:

2-Wolves (Anyone with less than silver gear use melee?)

I went to mountains with iron armor and abyssal knife. Knifes are great for wolfs, because wolf attack fast, but knife attacks faster. Just block first wolf attack, then 2 hits with knife, wolf stunned and 3rd attack for big crit -> instakill. It all takes about same amount of stamina as one full charge of bow. [/quote]

Originally posted by AMURKA:

3-Deathsquito (do you ACTUALLY risk it with melee when you can just 1 shot them with a bow?)

Knife again, because even if i dont parry, it attack so fast before he can leave. And i am lazy to run loot stingers all the time when using bows, so meele preffered. Its actually safer, because if you get ambushed while wielding bow by another mosquito or fulling... rip. But if ya go meele, you dont give a ♥♥♥♥ about how many of these guys keep coming, you can just block.

Originally posted by AMURKA:

4-Has ANYONE killed a boss other than the first one with melee weapons only?

Why the ♥♥♥♥ would you use bow against bonemass? Its much easier with iron mace

Originally posted by AMURKA:

I'd love to hear how others feel about this. Am I the only one that feels bows make the game too easy? (Not saying the game is actually easy...but just imagine the game WITHOUT bows...ugh)

.Well, i know where ya comin from, but its all about early game. People got used to fight everything with a bow because early on meele is hard. But instead of switching to meele at certain point, they keep using bows even when meele is just better in lot of ways.

The only reason for needing a bow after 2nd boss are drakes in mountain (and ofc 4th boss). Everything else is better with meele (but you need some skills, which is not problem if ya switch to meele at right time, but if ya keep bowing everything and try to swap to meele lets say after silver gear, ofc you would suck, because you have no skills in blocks and weapons).

[Echo2Omega]

Trolls have big heavy slow attacks. So yeah, you can melee them down fine.

Wolves die in 2 stabs with the Elderwood spear (or whatever it is called). The hard part is there is usually a second and third wolf.

Not up to deathsquitos yet.