Fire arrows worse than flint & even wood arrows.

[Droolguy]

Due to the fact that fire does not stack in any way (neither damage nor duration). These three-component arrows actually significantly underperform vs. the raw damage three-component flint arrows and even the one-component wood arrows.

This is compounded massively the more bow skill you get as the faster you can shoot arrows the further the divide is *multiplied* due to only base arrow damage being a factor that is modified by speed (fire DoT is *capped* by the rate of 1 arrow over it's standard duration).

In order to fix them they strongly either need damage or duration to stack from multiple hits. Allowing a player to "DoT up" a target and let it burn over a long time, or "Burn down" a target by constantly ramping the fire DPS over multiple hits.

[muffins]

They're only good for hunting since you're not using up your precious bronze/iron/obsidian.

[Locuust]

lol sounds like you want rolling ignites. /shrug. I'm not too terribly worried about bow damage. Or I suppose arrows in this case. I honestly don't use anything but wooden most of the time. I feel like your solution would be a little OP, especially early game.

[ente000]

Some enemys are weak to fire :)

[Weaver]

Enemies have different weaknesses and resistances. Learn them. Profit.

[gerald2]

Originally posted by muffins:

They're only good for hunting since you're not using up your precious bronze/iron/obsidian.

dont thik so i kill trolls with em and elder w/o any problem ,they are great for greydwarves also ,of course in further biomes u need bigger damage but for first two they works perfect

[lopschi93]

1) Enemies can be weak to fire (thinking about a big one actually)
2) they are cheap
3) they are a good "first hit" since (in my experience) the fire dot scales with the ambush multiplyer
4) if you are only using a bow anyway, then just swap arrows? you can put them on your keybinds? Like "1 = fire arrow to start" and "2 = flint for the rest"

[Droolguy]

Originally posted by Locuust:

lol sounds like you want rolling ignites. /shrug. I'm not too terribly worried about bow damage. Or I suppose arrows in this case. I honestly don't use anything but wooden most of the time. I feel like your solution would be a little OP, especially early game.

I feel like you missed the part where wood arrows are better, even at 0 skill, and just get even better the faster you can fire. So by your logic, wood arrows are OP since they out damage fire arrows.

Originally posted by ente000:

Some enemys are weak to fire :)

Not weak enough for it to matter.

[lopschi93]

Hmm then we encountered different enemies^^

And i never said they were op? Just...not as bad as you make them out to be? Use them to start combat and then swap like you would with a meele weapon, just swap to different arrows.

[Locuust]

Originally posted by Droolguy:

Originally posted by Locuust:

lol sounds like you want rolling ignites. /shrug. I'm not too terribly worried about bow damage. Or I suppose arrows in this case. I honestly don't use anything but wooden most of the time. I feel like your solution would be a little OP, especially early game.

I feel like you missed the part where wood arrows are better, even at 0 skill, and just get even better the faster you can fire. So by your logic, wood arrows are OP since they out damage fire arrows.

Stacking dots, at least in my experience, can get OP. What if a group of 4 keeps stacking the dot? Is there a limit to the number of stacks? Is it a max per person or a max from all sources? If it's a simple raw damage bump sure. But a lot of things will probably get tweaked during a balance pass after all the weapons/enemies have been added towards the end of EA.

[Droolguy]

Originally posted by lopschi93:

Hmm then we encountered different enemies^^

And i never said they were op? Just...not as bad as you make them out to be? Use them to start combat and then swap like you would with a meele weapon, just swap to different arrows.

Wasn't talking to you, and why should I switch at all? Backstab bonuses apply linearly to all weapons, so Flint works better since you don't need to take up an extra inventory slot and you don't need to switch.

Having to carry an entire stack of arrows that are only relevant on backstab is horribly inefficient.

[cerebus23]

DOT damage is mostly a waste.

Stull too low will be one shot by you or the arrow damage itself.



stuff too high the damage is so low it does nothing. and your arrows hit for squat, goblins. mid game dot arrows pretty weak i traded out for flat damage flint or obsidian then needle. the dots need a rebalance rework, a % based damage over time 20% 15% for x seconds double if moving. something along those lines i think would make them far more deadly and useful vs that 1.5 to 3 damage nonsense.

[Droolguy]

Originally posted by Locuust:

Originally posted by Droolguy:

I feel like you missed the part where wood arrows are better, even at 0 skill, and just get even better the faster you can fire. So by your logic, wood arrows are OP since they out damage fire arrows.

Stacking dots, at least in my experience, can get OP. What if a group of 4 keeps stacking the dot? Is there a limit to the number of stacks? Is it a max per person or a max from all sources? If it's a simple raw damage bump sure. But a lot of things will probably get tweaked during a balance pass after all the weapons/enemies have been added towards the end of EA.

I mean, it's a linear scale, fixed damage per arrow, so whether you extend that out per shot, or you do it all in the same duration window, your still only doing the arrows rated damage.

Fire arrows rated damage is 11p/22f
Flint arrows rated damage is 27p

Fire arrow does 19% more damage per shot, but a significant portion of that damage is *not* instant.

So regardless of how it stacks, even if forever, it can never do more than 19% more damage than Flint per shot.

Realistically though you can fire several flint arrows at 0 skill, for full damage each shot, while fire arrows loose 66% of their total damage for every hit on a mob that is already on fire.

If they really want to emphasis DoTing and arrow swaping, stack duration infinitely so you can hit it a bunch and then switch to another arrow to take advantage of high pierce damage and the rolling DoT. If they just want raw damage, just make it so fire damage stacks cumulatively from each arrow.

[Locuust]

Originally posted by Droolguy:

I mean, it's a linear scale, fixed damage per arrow, so whether you extend that out per shot, or you do it all in the same duration window, your still only doing the arrows rated damage.

Fire arrows rated damage is 11p/22f
Flint arrows rated damage is 27p

Fire arrow does 19% more damage per shot, but a significant portion of that damage is *not* instant.

So regardless of how it stacks, even if forever, it can never do more than 19% more damage than Flint per shot.

Realistically though you can fire several flint arrows at 0 skill, for full damage each shot, while fire arrows loose 66% of their total damage for every hit on a mob that is already on fire.

If they really want to emphasis DoTing and arrow swaping, stack duration infinitely so you can hit it a bunch and then switch to another arrow to take advantage of high pierce damage and the rolling DoT. If they just want raw damage, just make it so fire damage stacks cumulatively from each arrow.

One potential unintended consequence is that simplifies certain encounters if you can front load a bunch of dots and then kite w/o even the need to reapply anything. It's not just about the raw numbers but how it changes how the challenge of the encounter as a whole. The devil is in the details. If there are two archers and they take turns keeping the dot rolling/stacked then there's almost zero danger as the one being chased can just concentrate on running. Though tbh this is true of regular arrows too. It's just that the frequency of attack is most likely lower due to the fact that the dot would mitigate any monster regen. I'm not saying it can't be done, just that there are more considerations on the dot side vs. just doing a straight raw one-time damage calculation. Personally I'd advocate the later unless bosses became significantly harder with multiple phase mechanics and such.

[hpsfamily]

i find you can one shot most normal enemies out of their detection range so wood is sufficient. i carry a stack of obsid for larger rare enemies. fire arrows are only good for trolls early game when you cant 3 hit them and have to actually battle.

[Lovecraft's Cat]

In the early game, the dot-mechanic of fire arrows is pretty nice. You don't do much damage and it takes a looooong time to line up a shot, so the dot really helps. Of course it's not a late game arrow, that's expected. In the mid game, it made a surprise comeback to whittle down Bonemass while recovering from melee in my game haha.