Token/icon character representation

[Walk with Kings]

Howdy everyone!

Thanks for all of your feedback so far. We're very excited for more people to try the game via the Open Beta! Having seen a number of comments about Hot Brass' token/icon character representation, we've created this go-to post. (Being fairly confident it's going to be a recurring point of contention.) And so:

The two of us that make up Walk with Kings are both players and lovers of tactical shooters, top-down shooters and games in general! Being huge fans of SWAT 4, and craving its experience in a new package, the original pitch for Hot Brass (formerly "Tear Through") many, many years ago was to distill what we love about SWAT 4 into a polished indie title with arcade-style accessibility.

Part of that exercise involved trying to innovate quickly and unambiguously communicating information from a top-down perspective that's more easily read in first- and third-person games. Crucially: current equipment, actions and demeanour. Icons and colour coding weren't sacrifices for budget or time (in fact, we were working on human avatars in tandem for awhile!). On the contrary, we strongly feel that it adds something to the experience!

Marketing Hot Brass has always been somewhat of an obstacle for us. Seeing the icons (even in motion) without feeling the tactility we've striven to create doesn't communicate the game nearly as well as playing it does. And (understandably) it can be hard for players to see past the icons while assessing the game: they're different. Odd, even! But at its core, Hot Brass is the tense, tactical and fun repackaging of SWAT 4 we felt was missing and set out to create. We believe it will please anyone who has missed shouting at characters to surrender, and having to be confident before they fire their weapon.

There will be some players who can never see past the icons, we understand. However we've seen many initially-opposed players not only warm to, but become supporters of the icons once they felt and experienced them themselves. To be clear: we don't think every top-down game should use tokens and icons. We're fans of human avatars as well! But we do think the icons bring something important and interesting to Hot Brass. And while you may never agree that they're the best choice, you might soften your stance once you get your hands on the game!

We've put a huge amount of work into ensuring the game feels fun and tactically rewarding. We've also put a huge amount of work and time into making the tokens and icons feed into and enhance that. And we believe that a large amount of anti-iconers will be surprised at how immersive and empathetic the tokens can be once immersed in the game.

So if icons aside, Hot Brass' gameplay is something you're interested in, we'd love it if and highly recommend you try the game! (The Open Beta being an excellent, free opportunity!) Some creative decisions can be hard to understand until you properly experience them. So if you were skeptical of Heath Ledger's Joker casting, or Henry Cavill's Geralt of Rivia, or Fortnite adding a Battle Royale mode then come along and try it out!

You can sign up for the Open Beta here: https://mailchi.mp/b0739d04c974/openbeta

We can't guarantee you'll change your mind, but we've seen it happen before.

Thanks!

Adam and Jacques

[live4life | bazaar.tf]

I don't know what your marketing budget is but while reading this thread an idea for marketing that came to me was sort of like the Meet the team videos from Team fortress 2 where it is 3D models Except unlike those videos you interlace game play footage.

Here is an example of what is in my head.
If it's hard to read (I wrote in word), here is a paste bin of he same text: https://pastebin.com/2ZkgmHXC

imgur links are to my really(really) rough sketches of my idea.

I will try and fix it.

Scene 1: https://imgur.com/EG2R8gH
____• Sound:
________◦ helicopter blades wearing
____• Screen:
________◦ House centred in the middle with red and blue flashing out the front
________◦ Small dot of lashing blue and Red moving towards
____• Camera
________◦ zooming on house
____• Comment
________◦ Grey lines are all housing
Scene 2: https://imgur.com/w9eOi5d
____• Sound
________◦ Still helicopter
________◦ but can hear sirens and murmurs of police
________◦ wheels siding to a stop
____• Scene
________◦ Car Pulls into yard
____• Camera
________◦ pulls in front of the van just as it stops

Scene 3: https://imgur.com/3VKmsn1
____• sound
________◦ Helicopter sounds have faded to nothing
________◦ Footsteps as the guys get out
________◦ Police Officer mentioning that the guys are here
____• Scene
________◦ Swat moving out of the vehicle
________◦ Each of the solders has some sort of strip or colour on them representing the 4 player token colours
____• Camera
________◦ My original idea was to have them running straight over the Camera
____________▪ So it would look like the camera is on the ground point towards them
____• Comment
________◦ Due to my sucky drawing skills I haven’t drawn the guys
________◦ I hope this doesn’t ruin the vision I am going forward

Scene 4 https://imgur.com/44zhEzn
____• sound
________◦ Voice over is a police officer giving a report
____________▪ “You guys no the drill. John Peter has been held by some of his old mafia friends for ratting them out”
____________▪ “Getting everyone out of there as safely as you can and only use violence where necessarily
____________▪ Basically try and give a summary of the game as if it where an officer giving them a mission briefing
____________▪ Could either be
________________• as if they where outside being briefed before hand
____________________◦ This wold probably be best if there was a scene in between or an inside shot of them being told this in the van
________________• it could be as if it where coming through there ear piece
____• Scene
________◦ Unlocking door
________◦ light spilling out (like the torches in the game)
________◦ 2 walking through fanning out
____________▪ Other two going round the side
________◦ Split screen with the view with the game style perspective
____• Camera
________◦ Could be like security Camera from inside the house
____• Comment

Anyway I was reaching the end of my artistic skill but I do have more ideas if you would like them. When Drawing them I was picturing it in SFM but could be anything.


I may also have completely miss understood or just be to late to the party but let me know what you think.

[Hiten]

Originally posted by Walk with Kings:

There will be some players who can never see past the icons

Unfortunately - as the game itself looks good - I believe it won't just be "some players," it will be "most players."

How about the option to toggle between icons and animated sprites? You could still outline the sprites with color coding (option for that, too) and floating icons under them, etc.

[BlackjackGT]

I'd stick by your guns because if the game has sprites, most players will "accuse" it of being a Door Kickers ripoff.

The Token Units look at least makes it stand out in the Steam store. :) I stumbled onto this just now, had never heard of it. I'm reminded a bit of card game/RPG "Trials of Fire," although that game puts the character's face on each token instead.

Although given that Killhouse is moving on to Middle East modern combat for its sequel (instead of SWAT/special police units), this could maybe be the DK sequel some players preferred instead of moving on to a military units scenario.

Also, when you watch the video and see how the various icons animate, I think that better communicates the benefits of the icon design, rather than in static screenshots.

[ReamedBySteem]

This looks great, and who knows the tokens might grow on me buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut, ima doubt it.

[Bigler]

When is this game coming out?? Instant top of my wishlist, any way I can pay extra for closed testing lol. I've been patiently waiting for door kicks 2, hopefully this won't take that long, but I'm excited none the less!

[BACK-godeyc]

I hope the use of guns can cause harm to the hostages before they are safe, otherwise I think it is easy to rescue the hostages. Hope to add sound to attract enemies and other systems to make the game more interesting.

[Tajin]

I just don't really see much point in these icons. Making the actions easier to read seems more like an excuse. If really necessary it could've easily been character models with small icons next to them.

Anyway, the opening post explains that the game is good despite the icons and I'm sure it is. It's just that many (if not most) of us think that it would be better with actual characters.

The icons are an immersion breaker to me.



Or in other words... sticking to icons only will make you loose a lot of potential customers. That is for sure.

[Pio]

Originally posted by Tajin:

I just don't really see much point in these icons. Making the actions easier to read seems more like an excuse. If really necessary it could've easily been character models with small icons next to them.

Anyway, the opening post explains that the game is good despite the icons and I'm sure it is. It's just that many (if not most) of us think that it would be better with actual characters.

The icons are an immersion breaker to me.



Or in other words... sticking to icons only will make you loose a lot of potential customers. That is for sure.

I disagree. I like the idea with displaying just icons, which is pretty unique. I don't see why people need character models.
As you said, icons make enemy actions easy to read and I think replacing that with characters and then making their actions display well would be hard to do. If players will have a problem with reading that will get quickly irritated, which will be definitely much worse.

[Sundowning.]

Originally posted by Pio:

I disagree. I like the idea with displaying just icons, which is pretty unique. I don't see why people need character models.

Here's why you don't see it: You're applying logic to personal tastes.

This isn't about "ease of use" or "accesibility". It's about "hey, I like how this looks", or "hey, I like the idea but I¨don't like how it looks".

If you wanted to take a deep dive into the sea of reasons that make people like or dislike something they see, the level of logic you'd need to analyze and properly dig into personal tastes is way beyond what most of us can apply.

This is why.

[TomatoCherries]

Originally posted by Bury Tomorrow:

Originally posted by Pio:

I disagree. I like the idea with displaying just icons, which is pretty unique. I don't see why people need character models.

Here's why you don't see it: You're applying logic to personal tastes.

This isn't about "ease of use" or "accesibility". It's about "hey, I like how this looks", or "hey, I like the idea but I¨don't like how it looks".

If you wanted to take a deep dive into the sea of reasons that make people like or dislike something they see, the level of logic you'd need to analyze and properly dig into personal tastes is way beyond what most of us can apply.

This is why.

No.

[Dom2D]

The game plays great, I love the icons! Every change in behavior is super clear, and I know what weapon/tool my partners and I have in hand at all times. Really cool, courageous design!

[Lactard]

Originally posted by Tajin:

I just don't really see much point in these icons. Making the actions easier to read seems more like an excuse. If really necessary it could've easily been character models with small icons next to them.

Anyway, the opening post explains that the game is good despite the icons and I'm sure it is. It's just that many (if not most) of us think that it would be better with actual characters.

The icons are an immersion breaker to me.



Or in other words... sticking to icons only will make you loose a lot of potential customers. That is for sure.

One mechanic of the game is to observe direct threat, high ready vs low ready or when a weapon is pointed up or pointed down. I don't see how this can be shown effectively through a character model with a game that is top down. Use of icons is great way to display intent.

I'm sure "losing potential customers" is a thing but that is also personal opinion.

[Ostross]

It was a little weird at first, but I have to say - the icons work quite well actually. I like them.

They convey way more information than a character sprite could in a top down game.

[Adam]

I thought it was ugly too, but I do like how well they convey information, and I've come to appreciate them. I can't think of a better way to do it in a fast-paced, real-time, top-down game than the way you've done it.

[BRIMStone]

ok sure but like.....

THE ANIMATIONS ARE SO ***CLEAN*** and convey things beautifully where a top down sprite or 3D model system might fail in some areas...i think it works very well.