Babylon's Fall Flopped So Badly Physical Copies Are Being Destroyed Or Given Away By GameStop

[Cosgar]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXyBZxcQc0E

[Veni_Vidi_Vici]

Hilarious.

[Cosgar]

Originally posted by Veni_Vidi_Vici:

Hilarious.

Even Anthem was still ~99¢ before it's inevitable shutdown.

[Tayzor Azul]

Why I always forget that consoles still have physical copies ?!
Then again why does any game still have a physical copy ? Its not like the new gen consoles have limited disk space anymore.

[Cosgar]

Originally posted by Tayzor Azul:

Why I always forget that consoles still have physical copies ?!
Then again why does any game still have a physical copy ? Its not like the new gen consoles have limited disk space anymore.

You want physical copies because they're trying to push "Accessibility over ownership."
Segw removed the classic Sonic games from steam to push Sonic Origins, and Rockstar removed all the GTA games for the definitive edition that they later removed because it wasn't so definitive.

[Elveone]

Originally posted by Cosgar:

Originally posted by Tayzor Azul:

Why I always forget that consoles still have physical copies ?!
Then again why does any game still have a physical copy ? Its not like the new gen consoles have limited disk space anymore.

You want physical copies because they're trying to push "Accessibility over ownership."
Segw removed the classic Sonic games from steam to push Sonic Origins, and Rockstar removed all the GTA games for the definitive edition that they later removed because it wasn't so definitive.

Games are removed for purchase, if you purchased them when they were on sale then they are still available to you. Physical copies do not really have any advantages over digital ones unless you actually think that Steam is going to get shut down anytime soon.

[Cosgar]

Originally posted by Elveone:

Originally posted by Cosgar:

You want physical copies because they're trying to push "Accessibility over ownership."
Segw removed the classic Sonic games from steam to push Sonic Origins, and Rockstar removed all the GTA games for the definitive edition that they later removed because it wasn't so definitive.

Games are removed for purchase, if you purchased them when they were on sale then they are still available to you. Physical copies do not really have any advantages over digital ones unless you actually think that Steam is going to get shut down anytime soon.

It's still a slippery slope that allows scummy practices.

[Elveone]

Originally posted by Cosgar:

Originally posted by Elveone:

Games are removed for purchase, if you purchased them when they were on sale then they are still available to you. Physical copies do not really have any advantages over digital ones unless you actually think that Steam is going to get shut down anytime soon.

It's still a slippery slope that allows scummy practices.

Yeah, apparently the scummy practices of not selling old games in order to push for a new game. Newsflash - they stopped selling those in physical stores as well. And digital distribution allows you access to hundreds of games that could never buy physically to begin with like Kaze and the Wild Masks and Freedom Planet.

[arsenicBumpnip]

Originally posted by Elveone:

Originally posted by Cosgar:

It's still a slippery slope that allows scummy practices.

Yeah, apparently the scummy practices of not selling old games in order to push for a new game. Newsflash - they stopped selling those in physical stores as well. And digital distribution allows you access to hundreds of games that could never buy physically to begin with like Kaze and the Wild Masks and Freedom Planet.

Y'know, they stopped selling those old games in physical stores because it costs money to keep printing new discs/cases, but it costs a publisher -nothing- to keep a game listed on digital storefronts (most GaaS games excluded from that due to server costs, of course. which is part of why GaaS is such a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ model unless they include an offline mode).

The -entire point- of digital distribution is to make games -easier to get a hold of- through legal channels. A publisher arbitrarily removing a game from digital sale is a change that only serves to make that game -harder- to get without piracy, it's a move that's literally completely antithetical to the core reasons digital distribution exists.

Not to mention how it's also a purely negative change for the end-user, and is a change -solely- motivated by the publisher wanting to squeeze as much money as they can out of their customers, not out of wanting to actually offer quality service/product. Those are pretty much the top qualifiers for "being scummy", and dig distro letting us buy indie games is a total non-sequitur to that and isn't some kind of magic excuse for big publisher's ♥♥♥♥♥♥ behavior.

[Elveone]

Originally posted by arsenicBumpnip:

Originally posted by Elveone:

Yeah, apparently the scummy practices of not selling old games in order to push for a new game. Newsflash - they stopped selling those in physical stores as well. And digital distribution allows you access to hundreds of games that could never buy physically to begin with like Kaze and the Wild Masks and Freedom Planet.

Y'know, they stopped selling those old games in physical stores because it costs money to keep printing new discs/cases, but it costs a publisher -nothing- to keep a game listed on digital storefronts (most GaaS games excluded from that due to server costs, of course. which is part of why GaaS is such a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ model unless they include an offline mode).

The -entire point- of digital distribution is to make games -easier to get a hold of- through legal channels. A publisher arbitrarily removing a game from digital sale is a change that only serves to make that game -harder- to get without piracy, it's a move that's literally completely antithetical to the core reasons digital distribution exists.

Not to mention how it's also a purely negative change for the end-user, and is a change -solely- motivated by the publisher wanting to squeeze as much money as they can out of their customers, not out of wanting to actually offer quality service/product. Those are pretty much the top qualifiers for "being scummy", and dig distro letting us buy indie games is a total non-sequitur to that and isn't some kind of magic excuse for big publisher's ♥♥♥♥♥♥ behavior.

Oh, yeah, the non-sequitur of pros and cons of digital vs physical distribution. The fact is that digital distribution is more convenient for the user, offers more advantages, keeps games available for longer, the scummy practices of publishers are unaffected by having a physical release of a game and there are more games available to you digitally that fit the niche of a particular game by a large publisher that might be affected by said scummy practices.

[arsenicBumpnip]

Originally posted by Elveone:

Oh, yeah, the non-sequitur of pros and cons of digital vs physical distribution. The fact is that digital distribution is more convenient for the user, offers more advantages, keeps games available for longer, the scummy practices of publishers are unaffected by having a physical release of a game and there are more games available to you digitally that fit the niche of a particular game by a large publisher that might be affected by said scummy practices.

Yes, the non-sequitur, because again, -games getting arbitrarily removed from digi distro- isn't a con of digi distro, it's a con of publishers being scumbags.
That digi distro has the pro of offering indie games doesn't counteract that con, because "getting to buy indie games" isn't a pro of "pubs being scumbags", so trying to bring it up like it's a counterpoint to "publishers removing old games is scummy and being complacent in their behavior is a slippy slope to get screwed over even more" is totally besides the point.
Likewise, "You can still buy other games in the same genre as the one that got removed" isn't an excuse for publishers doing ♥♥♥♥♥♥, unneeded removals! You -do- realize that we can have those other games in the genre -and- the potentially-removed game both up for sale at the same time, right?

-The fact is- that there's -zero- excuse for publishers removing old games from digital sale unless those games literally don't work, and being complacent towards needless removal of games is the slippery slope/scummy practice that you're for some bizarre reason trying to defend.
I'm -not arguing against digi distro-, I'm -arguing against games being removed from said distro for scummy reasons-. Any pro digi distro offers is -irrelevant- to the point that games being arbitrarily removed from digi distro is scummy behavior that shouldn't be tolerated, because -those pros can exist alongside the games not being removed from sale-.

[Elveone]

Originally posted by arsenicBumpnip:

Originally posted by Elveone:

Oh, yeah, the non-sequitur of pros and cons of digital vs physical distribution. The fact is that digital distribution is more convenient for the user, offers more advantages, keeps games available for longer, the scummy practices of publishers are unaffected by having a physical release of a game and there are more games available to you digitally that fit the niche of a particular game by a large publisher that might be affected by said scummy practices.

Yes, the non-sequitur, because again, -games getting arbitrarily removed from digi distro- isn't a con of digi distro, it's a con of publishers being scumbags.
That digi distro has the pro of offering indie games doesn't counteract that con, because "getting to buy indie games" isn't a pro of "pubs being scumbags", so trying to bring it up like it's a counterpoint to "publishers removing old games is scummy and being complacent in their behavior is a slippy slope to get screwed over even more" is totally besides the point.
Likewise, "You can still buy other games in the same genre as the one that got removed" isn't an excuse for publishers doing ♥♥♥♥♥♥, unneeded removals! You -do- realize that we can have those other games in the genre -and- the potentially-removed game both up for sale at the same time, right?

-The fact is- that there's -zero- excuse for publishers removing old games from digital sale unless those games literally don't work, and being complacent towards needless removal of games is the slippery slope/scummy practice that you're for some bizarre reason trying to defend.
I'm -not arguing against digi distro-, I'm -arguing against games being removed from said distro for scummy reasons-. Any pro digi distro offers is -irrelevant- to the point that games being arbitrarily removed from digi distro is scummy behavior that shouldn't be tolerated, because -those pros can exist alongside the games not being removed from sale-.

Exactly - games being removed from distribution isn't a con of digital and a pro of physical like the other person implied. And having access to indie games that you cannot buy physically is a pro of digital distribution. The argument was "digital distribution is pushed by scummy publishers so you want to go with the physical copies" which is nonsense as the physical copies have exactly the same problem as the digital ones from said scummy developers. Having indie games available for you as a direct competition to those scummy publishers shows that digital distribution altogether is wholly independent of them and is directly contradicting their goals by providing alternatives to said scummy practices that would otherwise not be available.

On the other hand there are legal reasons to remove some games from distribution like the rights of said games reverting to their original owners. That is the reason half of Platinum's catalog is missing from steam as well as some old marvel property games. it is not always about being an ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ to the clients and pushing a newer product in place of an older one.

[arsenicBumpnip]

Originally posted by Elveone:

Originally posted by arsenicBumpnip:

Yes, the non-sequitur, because again, -games getting arbitrarily removed from digi distro- isn't a con of digi distro, it's a con of publishers being scumbags.
That digi distro has the pro of offering indie games doesn't counteract that con, because "getting to buy indie games" isn't a pro of "pubs being scumbags", so trying to bring it up like it's a counterpoint to "publishers removing old games is scummy and being complacent in their behavior is a slippy slope to get screwed over even more" is totally besides the point.
Likewise, "You can still buy other games in the same genre as the one that got removed" isn't an excuse for publishers doing ♥♥♥♥♥♥, unneeded removals! You -do- realize that we can have those other games in the genre -and- the potentially-removed game both up for sale at the same time, right?

-The fact is- that there's -zero- excuse for publishers removing old games from digital sale unless those games literally don't work, and being complacent towards needless removal of games is the slippery slope/scummy practice that you're for some bizarre reason trying to defend.
I'm -not arguing against digi distro-, I'm -arguing against games being removed from said distro for scummy reasons-. Any pro digi distro offers is -irrelevant- to the point that games being arbitrarily removed from digi distro is scummy behavior that shouldn't be tolerated, because -those pros can exist alongside the games not being removed from sale-.

Exactly - games being removed from distribution isn't a con of digital and a pro of physical like the other person implied. And having access to indie games that you cannot buy physically is a pro of digital distribution. The argument was "digital distribution is pushed by scummy publishers so you want to go with the physical copies" which is nonsense as the physical copies have exactly the same problem as the digital ones from said scummy developers. Having indie games available for you as a direct competition to those scummy publishers shows that digital distribution altogether is wholly independent of them and is directly contradicting their goals by providing alternatives to said scummy practices that would otherwise not be available.

On the other hand there are legal reasons to remove some games from distribution like the rights of said games reverting to their original owners. That is the reason half of Platinum's catalog is missing from steam as well as some old marvel property games. it is not always about being an ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ to the clients and pushing a newer product in place of an older one.

To a point yes, that's fair, and I'm glad we've cleared up what seems to have been a misunderstanding between us as to what topics we were arguing.

But to another point, the existence of physical copies means that, even if a game is removed from digital storefronts, you'll theoretically always be able to buy a used physical copy of it from somewhere. Meaning you have a legal means of acquiring a copy, whereas the only way to get a removed digital-only game is through piracy, which can lead to some angry letters/fines/worse from your ISP.

I think Cosgar has a fair point there that physical offers the advantage that no matter what a publisher tries to do to make a game inaccessible, the used copy market keeps it available. So, getting a physical copy may be safer than a digital one if both choices are available, and in turn we should advocate for games continuing to get physical copies alongside digital ones as long as gaming is as inextricably intertwined with capitalism as it currently is.

Too Human is a great example of a game remaining accessible despite massive efforts to erase it, in that it was literally recalled and all unsold copies of the game were shredded, but any that had already been bought are still being resold periodically to this day.

And yeah, I agree that ofc there's legitimate reasons to remove some games (particularly licensing stuff as you mentioned), but Cosgar was specifically bringing up GTA and Sonic, which were only removed to push their (in the case of GTA, vastly inferior) remasters harder.

Glad we've cleared this up, I'd now write "now let's get back to arguing back-and-forth in the other thread" to be cheeky, but I'm actually about to go to sleep, so take this "now make sure you reply to me in the other thread so I can look forward to waking up to more arguing tomorrow" instead.

[Elveone]

I want to point out that Too Human is available right now through digital distribution. Also used copies are really as moral and contribute as much to the publisher/developer as a pirated game so you might just as well. If you own a game then it is still available to you even after the game has been removed from a storefront so the advantages of physical copies for legitimate customers are pretty much non-existent.

[arsenicBumpnip]

Originally posted by Elveone:

I want to point out that Too Human is available right now through digital distribution. Also used copies are really as moral and contribute as much to the publisher/developer as a pirated game so you might just as well. If you own a game then it is still available to you even after the game has been removed from a storefront so the advantages of physical copies for legitimate customers are pretty much non-existent.

i mean yeah, morality-wise piracy is fine lots of times, but legally-wise used games don't carry the potential penalty of your ISP shutting down your internet access.

I'll admit that yes, the advantages of physical copies are mostly null outside of "I just enjoy the physical experience of putting a game in/having a case stack", kinda like vinyl records for music, but the -major- one they still have is not peeving off your ISP when acquiring a delisted game secondhand.

Am curious tho, where's Too Human available? I've got it on disc but having both is always nice.

[Elveone]

Originally posted by arsenicBumpnip:

Originally posted by Elveone:

I want to point out that Too Human is available right now through digital distribution. Also used copies are really as moral and contribute as much to the publisher/developer as a pirated game so you might just as well. If you own a game then it is still available to you even after the game has been removed from a storefront so the advantages of physical copies for legitimate customers are pretty much non-existent.

i mean yeah, morality-wise piracy is fine lots of times, but legally-wise used games don't carry the potential penalty of your ISP shutting down your internet access.

I'll admit that yes, the advantages of physical copies are mostly null outside of "I just enjoy the physical experience of putting a game in/having a case stack", kinda like vinyl records for music, but the -major- one they still have is not peeving off your ISP when acquiring a delisted game secondhand.

Am curious tho, where's Too Human available? I've got it on disc but having both is always nice.

It is on gamepass. Not sure if you can buy it.