No Greater Heroes

[PMJ79]

I'm a bit tired of Dragons as a strat, so decided to try rushing Greater Heroes, but seem to be running into and issue. 2 Games in a row, when I get the Greater Hero spell at about turn 100, there are 0 Heroes available. I've tried with Death and Energy now, but no luck with either. I find it highly unlikely they've been summoned by the AI, so I'm wondering what's going on.

Is this a possible bug of the beta build?

[Problem Solver]

When you start a new game pick 10 spell books in the same element (fire) as a starting bonus. Now you only need 6 more books to get the spell "Summon Greater Hero". This should happen quickly for you

[Tlaloc]

I don't think any changes were made in the current beta, although the greater hero system will be changing in the next beta release (next couple days), where greater heroes are no longer tied to a magic school only tied to alignment.

If you want to upload your save (go to Load Game screen, click once on the file, then click Upload button), or email it, I can take a look quickly to see why no heroes are available. Would be helpful for us to see if there is some problem, as we are working on the greater hero stuff atm.

[PMJ79]

Originally posted by Problem Solver:

When you start a new game pick 10 spell books in the same element (fire) as a starting bonus. Now you only need 6 more books to get the spell "Summon Greater Hero". This should happen quickly for you

Getting the spell isn't the issue (I'm actually doing a 15 book start to really rush) and get the Call Greater Hero spell by around turn 100. When I go to cast it it shows 0 greater heroes available.

I'm trying one more time with shadow spell books - so if I don't see any heroes, I'll upload.

Thanks!

[jhanik]

I too had that with the first two greater hero summons I researched. The third school had two for me. Not sure why, because I thought nature should have gotten Lord Cas.

[jhanik]

Given Taloc's reply though, not going to be an issue in just a few days...

[PMJ79]

Just an update - this game when I researched Call Greater Hero there were 3 available - this will be fun!

[Skil]

Originally posted by Tlaloc:

I don't think any changes were made in the current beta, although the greater hero system will be changing in the next beta release (next couple days), where greater heroes are no longer tied to a magic school only tied to alignment.

If you want to upload your save (go to Load Game screen, click once on the file, then click Upload button), or email it, I can take a look quickly to see why no heroes are available. Would be helpful for us to see if there is some problem, as we are working on the greater hero stuff atm.

Since good alignment can now get good and neutral heroes and the evil alignment can get evil and neutral heroes, do the neutral alignment lose out by only getting neutral heroes?

[Tlaloc]

Most of the heroes are "random" alignment, meaning they can be any alignment. Only good and evil are restricted. The alignments are:

Miyabi the Zen Mystic - Random
Lord Cas Dictat - Random
Trom the Decimator - Evil
Shrymm the Bard - Random
Obb'smush the Deranged - Evil
Weymad the Firestarter - Random
Zamordic the Dark Knight - Evil
Gabrius the Archangel - Good
Dragolacies the Terrible - Random
Mobadeth the Frenzied - Random
Lurian'Ker the War Mage - Evil
Archmage Valen Highbury - Good

We need to determine a method to limit the number of greater heroes any one deity can have, so that one deity doesn't end up with them all, most of which may will be "dead". We may simply limit to 3-5 per deity.

[meglobob1]

Originally posted by Tlaloc:

Most of the heroes are "random" alignment, meaning they can be any alignment. Only good and evil are restricted. The alignments are:

Miyabi the Zen Mystic - Random
Lord Cas Dictat - Random
Trom the Decimator - Evil
Shrymm the Bard - Random
Obb'smush the Deranged - Evil
Weymad the Firestarter - Random
Zamordic the Dark Knight - Evil
Gabrius the Archangel - Good
Dragolacies the Terrible - Random
Mobadeth the Frenzied - Random
Lurian'Ker the War Mage - Evil
Archmage Valen Highbury - Good

We need to determine a method to limit the number of greater heroes any one deity can have, so that one deity doesn't end up with them all, most of which may will be "dead". We may simply limit to 3-5 per deity.

Looking at this list we need more Good GH!

I will miss being able to have all GH but agree you should be limited.

One problem with this is you will get games where (in worst case scenario) all those randoms will roll evil. Improbable I know BUT it will happen, cause RNG is like that!

So if sorted by alignment, the most common sense method your going to have to have a equal amount per alignment. Perhaps 3-5 in the short term, until you have equal amounts of GH per alignment.

[mrhyms]

"We need to determine a method to limit the number of greater heroes any one deity can have"

Aww - I like to try and "collect 'em all".

What if you also had Greater Hero slots as well as hero slots?

Start with 1 as a default.

You then have to spend existing hero slots to unlock more :- starting with 5 and raising (in the same vein as soul gem cost for basic hero slots).

You then have a juicy tactical choice of horde of cored normal units / quite a few heroes / very few greater heroes....

[Mort]

Idk I think having a hard limit on greater heroes would be fine - the lesser hero system is super interesting and dynamic, and grabbing all of the greater heroes kind of overrides that.

A limit of just say, 1, would also help smaller empires fend off bigger empires.

[Skil]

Originally posted by Tlaloc:

Most of the heroes are "random" alignment, meaning they can be any alignment. Only good and evil are restricted. The alignments are:

Miyabi the Zen Mystic - Random
Lord Cas Dictat - Random
Trom the Decimator - Evil
Shrymm the Bard - Random
Obb'smush the Deranged - Evil
Weymad the Firestarter - Random
Zamordic the Dark Knight - Evil
Gabrius the Archangel - Good
Dragolacies the Terrible - Random
Mobadeth the Frenzied - Random
Lurian'Ker the War Mage - Evil
Archmage Valen Highbury - Good

We need to determine a method to limit the number of greater heroes any one deity can have, so that one deity doesn't end up with them all, most of which may will be "dead". We may simply limit to 3-5 per deity.

This is my point. A good Diety has access to 2 good + 6 random heroes. An evil Diety has access to 4 evil + 6 random heroes. But if you choose to play a neutral Diety, you only have access to 6 random heroes...the good and evil will never be accessable to you. There is a big disadvantage playing a neutral Diety. GH have a huge impact in this game.

[meglobob1]

Originally posted by Skil:

Originally posted by Tlaloc:

Most of the heroes are "random" alignment, meaning they can be any alignment. Only good and evil are restricted. The alignments are:

Miyabi the Zen Mystic - Random
Lord Cas Dictat - Random
Trom the Decimator - Evil
Shrymm the Bard - Random
Obb'smush the Deranged - Evil
Weymad the Firestarter - Random
Zamordic the Dark Knight - Evil
Gabrius the Archangel - Good
Dragolacies the Terrible - Random
Mobadeth the Frenzied - Random
Lurian'Ker the War Mage - Evil
Archmage Valen Highbury - Good

We need to determine a method to limit the number of greater heroes any one deity can have, so that one deity doesn't end up with them all, most of which may will be "dead". We may simply limit to 3-5 per deity.

This is my point. A good Diety has access to 2 good + 6 random heroes. An evil Diety has access to 4 evil + 6 random heroes. But if you choose to play a neutral Diety, you only have access to 6 random heroes...the good and evil will never be accessable to you. There is a big disadvantage playing a neutral Diety. GH have a huge impact in this game.

Yes it will happen very often a neutral race will have access to no Greater Heroes whatsoever! As often those 6 randoms will all roll evil or good! There is a very good chance of that happening, you only after roll under 66.67% 6 times. Toss a coin 6 times over and over and you will get loads of 6 heads or 6 tails in a row!

Its a major flaw, with out equal numbers for all alignments.

[Skil]

I just started 2 games and was able to call greater heroes at about turn 100. One was in nature, the other in death. Both had no heroes available. I wonder if you need a certain amount fame to be able to summon greater heroes.

[meglobob1]

Originally posted by Skil:

I just started 2 games and was able to call greater heroes at about turn 100. One was in nature, the other in death. Both had no heroes available. I wonder if you need a certain amount fame to be able to summon greater heroes.

Before this beta that was not the case. What is happening is new.

When I have rushed Greater Hero spell, I have always had 3-4 greater Heroes available, no matter what magic school you rushed.

Basically Greater Heroes must be broken in this beta or perhaps the alignment system has leaked through like some of the DLC leaked through.

Anyway Greater Heroes are broken / suck atm.

If you want to see how Greater Heroes used to work switch from Beta to normal version and rush greater heroes then and you will have 3-4 available.