Deity Gold Accumulation

[Stormraven]

First of all, I love this game, a 4x with deep strategy, not just primarily a war game like Aow III or Dominions 5. Hopefully it will have deep economics like Distant Worlds Universe or Civ 4. But at turn 305 I am facing Deities with 125,000 gold. Why are they not coming at me with bigger armies with more high cost units. Is this an imbalance to be adjusted. They have much lower army upkeep cost. Also a suggestion, when generating maps can you put Dwarves near mountains, Northmen near tundra, and make a muddy area for Mud Goblins, etc. Again this is a great game, continuously being updated and improved.

[Tlaloc]

Hi stormraven

I can't answer why you aren't facing larger armies without knowing more about the game you are playing. But if you want to send us a save game I'll be happy to answer.

We've considered placing races near there historic homelands, but the current way the system works doesn't make it very easy. Primarily it's because we try to place all the starting armies equidistant apart from each other, and trying to manage that together with placing specific armies on specific terrain was difficult. It's something we may revisit in the future to enhance the lore.

It should be noted however that Northmen "can" get placed on tundra at game start (any other race and the game will reroll their start location). Similarly dwarves "can" get placed on mountains.

Mud/dirt isn't a terrain that is generated at game start, but Mud Goblins can build the "Dirty Incantations" empire unique building, allowing the owning deity to acquire the "Terraform Dirt" spell, which allows mud goblins to begin changing the world to their filthy standards. Also the Cold spells "Permafrost" and "Ice Age" allow tundra to spread.

[Stormraven]

Playing on hard level, all deities, close to producing tree ents, have captain, sorceress, Northmen sending armies of 16 units which I set, but basic fighters, no higher level units. They have 119,003 gold, armies 9, units 74, army gold upkeep 474. Grey Gnomes have 129,407 gold, 7 armies, 42 units, army gold upkeep only 614, turn 307 beta next to latest, mods for units, minerals, lands. As elves and doing quite well, intercepting armies in woods with armies of half archers works really well. I have 20,848 gold, 85 units, army gold upkeep 1,019. Would send save game but don't know how, 66 years old and not really computer savvy. Also I'm not criticizing the game. I would highly recommend this game to anyone. Even with not being finished I find this game right now more enjoyable than AOWIII, Fallen Enchantress, Warlock, Civilization 4 and 5, Eador. Thank you for your continuous updates and hard work.

[Stormraven]

Also I regenerate maps but takes alot of effort to send out units to find and see deity locations. Then must start over and regenerate map or just accept that Dwarves are basically near alot of jungle.

[Tlaloc]

Hi stormraven

We've updated the code so that dwarves are almost always placed on or near mountains or hills at game start, and northmen almost always near tundra (especially the human player. it may be less likely for the AI northmen to appear near tundra). The updates will be out in the next patch.

It feels alot more fun to start out always in mountains/hills as dwarves


I suspect you'll see the gold of the other deities decrease quite a bit once they start producing their top tier units. The upkeep cost of the top tier units are considerably higher, and can run through any gold reserves in a hurry. You'll see that when you start building a few tree-ents =)

[Stormraven]

Probably they have alot of gold because as you say they haven't yet researched enough high tier units and can't produce lower tier fast enough as that takes turns to produce. Also thank you for for deity placement near preferred landscape. Haven't played other than elves, I'm a tree hugger.
And I noticed Northmen now at turn 320 have about 15 hexes of tundra extra in their territory. This truly is a well thought out game. Thank you very much. Will need to put an excellent review on store page tomorrow.

[meglobob1]

The reason is very simple...I puzzled over this in my games...units don't just depend on gold...they depend on production (and thus natural resources).

I would recommend NOT changing this, because if you give for example a extremely hard AI increased natural resources or production, the human player would not stand a chance and be obliterated.

You are facing basic units because the AI produces them first but when they can build better units they produce them instead but obviously they still have lots of basic units...so what to do with those? Simple send them to war and if they die...they die. Currently the AI saves its elite units to defend there cities.

From a players viewpoint this makes battles seem easy in the early / mid stages of a game as they will wipe basic units very easy but if given time the AI will produce elite units like half-spiders that I am fighting now and it will be considerably more challenging. You will after bring a lot of magic or attack with multiple stacks (and thus lose lots of your units) or come up with something very, very clever!

Btw on the Mountain Dwarves that I have played (they are actually my favourite race so far and I usually prefer elves) they do need grasslands, especially at the start of the game to expand there cities. If there starting city is in mountains surrounded by lots and lots of mountains, that starting position could be unplayable. Even dwarves struggle to eat rocks!

[Mort]

Last game I played on very hard had the AI effectively convert all of its gold into high tier units. I won by bankrupting them, essentially.

[Mort]

Another thing - i'm not sure if the AI actually builds high tier tile upgrades. I saw a lot of level 1 ranches. Of course, I'd rather the AI use its gold to fight me, as the difficulty settings can essentially replace AI economic infrastructure. (Note: I'm not saying that focusing on low tier tile upgrades is ineffective, just that it would explain a cash buildup).

[Stormraven]

Thanks for all the replies. I stand corrected on gold accumulation, and you are right about Dwarves not eating rocks. I just wanted Dwarves near mountains and the starting position with your initial settler per deity usually has circle of grass hexes, maybe make a couple of hexes mountains or make mountains within distance of next founded city. Developer has made effort to do so which I appreciate. Again on a randomly generated map this is probably hard to program. And again I am very impressed with this game.

[meglobob1]

Originally posted by Mort:

Another thing - i'm not sure if the AI actually builds high tier tile upgrades. I saw a lot of level 1 ranches.

Just checked the game I have got going on Extremely Hard, the Mud Goblins built level 3 roads, level 3 ranches and had a level 2 mine before i conquered them. The Dark Elves have level 3 roads but everything else level 1...but i got them pinned in there 1 city...so they can't build any upgrades atm.

So it looks like there building higher tier upgrades.