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討論區規矩與守則
2 
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From my experience 250mm is not that effective at anti-craft at long range, they only start killing once craft commit to the attack, and it's more like they might kill 1-2 crafts if you are lucky effective, not shooting down entire flight of attackers effective.
"Or you can stagger your flight in different "height" to spread them out."
How that can be done? Order movement before flight fully assemble? or there is some obscure shortcut command?
"Attack from multiple directions (turret rotation speed for 250mm is actually not that fast."
i tried star pattern attack it really hard to pull of atleast for me - bombers run out of fuel pretty fast and its kinda work but at cost of 2 dead flights for one that get close enough to launch torps.
"From my experience 250mm is not that effective at anti-craft at long range, they only start killing once craft commit to the attack, and it's more like they might kill 1-2 crafts if you are lucky effective, not shooting down entire flight of attackers effective."
in mine too and that why their effectiveness surprised me. Maybe thats becose there is 3 of them in tight group and no other targets bisedes bombers.
But this is a game. Modern naval combat has the benefit of the earths curvature and gravity to give weapons effective ranges, and limiting visibility. Space, in real life doesnt have that. So the devs make radars and other sensors unrealistically weak. Modern naval combat games also have mountains and other terrain to use for cover, in space realistically you dont have that, so the devs have maps where we fly through various different asteroids and other space objects.
If you want to play the game that way, where the fleets spawn a few dozen KM away from eachother in empty space, where you have nothing to use as cover, thats up to you. But your post was about bombers being useless against light cruisers because of the 250mm RPF rounds when they are not, you are just not playing the game as its intended.
Onto OP's question at hand, I belive things are working as intended and there's several things you can do to improve your chance's of success. So here's a couple of things I'd like to point out:
1. Providing lockable tracks with OSP craft is more difficult and more dangerous since they only get the Halberd that can only detect stuff out to 8K at best. Instead I'd recommend going with a dedicated spotting ship using a Early Warning Radar to provide lockable tracks if you need them.
2. You can manually path an evasive pattern to avoid a lot of long range RPF fire. Juke and Evade don't do a good enough job against guns with AOE effects, so manually pathing evasive pattern approaches is key vs. those threats. At closer ranges however you're still screwed since the rounds flight time is short enough that it wont matter.
3. Engagements in open space with craft place certain demands on craft and missile design, not all carrier loadouts are capable of this, you have to design for it.
For example, if the target(s) can engage your strike craft out to:
10k) Deploy missiles with 10k or greater range (Usually just 10k or 10.5k).
6k) Deploy missiles with 6k or greater range (ANS & OSP), or if the target is slow and large enough, 7k range rockets.
3k) Same as above.
2k) 3k Range rockets or Cluster bomb (Extremely dangerous, only really viable vs. stationary targets or targets moving directly towards the strike craft, generally not recommended).
1k) Any munition will do, targets with 1k max PD range can effectively be considered crippled as far as strike planning is concerned, just bring enough omph to overwhelm the PD.
The downside to this approach is that this stand-off capability comes at a points cost, so expect to field a fewer total number of craft and craft loadouts compared to builds that don't have this capability.
If the vessel is actually crippled, then any munition will work ofcourse.
4. If terrain is present and is actually usable for you (Won't always be the case, even if present), say for example if the target vessel is hugging one side of terrain, but does not control the other side, then anything will work, provided you are popping out of cover already within bombing/rocket/missile range.
However if we are assuming no cover though, regardless of map, then I'd recommend using bombs only to finish off isolated, crippled and PD stripped & anti-craft stripped ships your other vessels can't be bothered to at the time. Bombs in general are so short ranged that any PD capability, or luck forbid any dedicated anti-craft capability will result in guaranteed losses. You can on occasion safely engage a ship in open space that only has PD capability on one side, even with bombs, so long as the ship can't roll over quickly enough.
5. The capability of your targets may change as the game progresses. Ships may expend long range anti-craft munitions, take damage that renders long range anti craft ineffective or unusable, suffer damage to magazines housing said munitions so on and so forth. Utilizing probing tactics (small scale attacks meant to sus out enemy capabilities) and false attacks (flying an attack pattern without actually intending to attack) can reveal enemy capabilities while preserving your own.
6. Supporting your strikes with a fast, dedicated jamming ship can improve the odds of survival. I'd recommend using both Radar and Comms jammers for this, as both can be used to guide missile's onto your craft. If you're only interested in combating RPF fire and don't have an issue with missiles, then you can get away with Radar only.
Fun is very subjective stuff so there is kinda no point to discuss it cause some people will find fun where others dont even look. So is "realism" we don have space combat in reality so realism is not applicable here.
However when u make "space game" as unspacy as possible (liquid vacuum, speeds and detection rangers thats look more like underwater combat, space bricks everywhere etc.) to make it "fun" for you or your intendet audience maybe making it "space" was mistake from get go?
"Modern naval combat games also have mountains and other terrain to use for cover"
i mean you kinda right and wrong at same time - yeah there is terrain but do you really think that nuclear aircraft carrier will use it as cover, or even Kirov class heavy cruiser. This things are huge and not very maneuverbale being near cover dosnt protect them its turn them in sitting ducks. But that dosnt meant that you cant have fun game - look at Cold waters for example.
"But your post was about bombers being useless against light cruisers because of the 250mm RPF rounds when they are not, you are just not playing the game as its intended."
i mean i get it dude you got meta where is vauxhalls dont shoot at bombers with thir guns or atlest not 3 of them at once. But that dont in anyway remove problem that one side dont have any contrplay in given enviroment.
Yeah i kinda come to similar conclusion wich is not great for my taste, im really not comfortable with multiply ships fleets. Atleast not yet.
""10k) Deploy missiles with 10k or greater range (Usually just 10k or 10.5k)."
But how? even with engine all the way for burn time - torps go 6km max. Or do you mean that carrier shold carry s2? (i think OSP cant carry s2 or im mistaken?)
"The capability of your targets may change as the game progresses. Ships may expend long range anti-craft munitions, take damage that renders long range anti craft ineffective or unusable, suffer damage to magazines housing said munitions so on and so forth. Utilizing probing tactics (small scale attacks meant to sus out enemy capabilities) and false attacks (flying an attack pattern without actually intending to attack) can reveal enemy capabilities while preserving your own."
it can be done with like single fighter AI will still shoot at with all it got. But its very tedious (they have like 8 min worth of RF ammo) and wont work against human opponent atleast wont work as well
Correct, I mean the carrier should carry some S2's for stand-off, and no, there's no restrictions on OSP for bringing S2's.
This isn't quite right. The reason abyss is "not how the games meant to be played" is because under all the spaceship stuff neb actually plays an awful lot like a cover shooter. You NEED terrain to play around for the game balance to work, its how you prevent maximum range fire from being the singular ideal weapon. In this instance you are giving RPF the maximum amount of time and clear angles to whittle away at your craft, which is why they are dying to it.
Yes people in normal maps can stay miles away from cover, but then they are being shot by the rest of your team and cant sheild themself, that is how you get 9k of points shooting 3k which makes the 3k melt and die, putting that team at a disadvantage. If they are miles away from cover and not in range of your teammates then you're the one over-extending with the bomber strike, and should focus on enemies who are actual threats rather then the enemy who has willfully removed them self from the battle.
As to the rest of the convo, when a CL is getting to fire all barrels of RPF at your craft, you should seek cover or wait until that CL needs to be shooting something else. If that didn't work out and you could just walk in under maximum fire (Esp 3x that maximum fire if Birch is the fleet in question) and still get missiles away, that would indicate craft were over-powered. Ship players need ways to zone craft out and not being able to fire on actual ships and require the enemy to expose their craft is a fair trade off for the ability to zone.