Will the game be available in Germany?

[mortimer]

Hello Devs
I noticed that the game is no longer visible in the German Steam Shop. It is an age rating needed for games to be available in Germany. I think there are many potential buyers here so please do not forget to make this age rating.

[SirJasonT]

Just adding some context for a game (Sumerian Six) that had similar issues at first:
https://steamcommunity.com/app/1429850/discussions/0/4340987242602940621/?ctp=2

Quote from a developer:

"However, these "verfassungswidrige Symbole" (as well as gestures and some other things) are a different case altogether. I think the problem is that these pose a potential legal liability by default and Steam just won't knowingly accept a game that contains that kind of content unless social adequacy has been officially established via a USK rating first. And I don't blame them.

And sure, since 2017 it is possible to legally distribute a game with that kind of content in Germany but it's nowhere close to a carte blanche. It's still a highly sensitive and legally difficult topic."

This is why I asked if the developers here tried to apply for a proper USK-Rating and not just a Steam-Rating with the questionnaire.
If the USK did indeed deny a proper rating, the only thing to do is try to appeal or censor the game.

[Birdman850]

Originally posted by Moud:

Hi, is there anyway to bypass it since I really would like to buy it, would VPNs or Keys work ?

We aren’t sure, we think a key will work as it worked for our playtesters.

[Birdman850]

Originally posted by Meddy83:

Swastikas are allowed in Video games in Germany since August 2018:

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/08/10/europe/germany-video-games-nazi-symbols-intl/index.html

https://abcnews.go.com/International/germany-loosens-ban-nazi-symbols-video-games/story?id=57133055

Hello Meddy83,

From our understanding we initially got denied by steam and have to go to a review board for further investigation.

Thanks,

Birdman850
Test Lead

[Gloraion]

Originally posted by CV60:

Originally posted by Swisspike:

This is hilarious! You lose a massive amount of customers, just because you are unwilling to follow THEIR requests to make a few NON-gameplay changes.

I'm the lead for the historical images team. Burden of Command is not merely a commercial game. We strive to, within the limitations of a game, to provide the player with the experience of leading an infantry unit in WW2. We do this not just to sell a game, but to both honor those who experienced these events in real life and to educate those of later generations about the sufferings they experienced. To effectively do so requires an historical rigor that does not compromise on showing both graphic and Nazi images. Our lead developer has made the decision that he will not compromise on this, and the team of volunteers supporting this project (many of whom are veterans and/or history buffs) fully support him in this decision. To do anything less would, to a degree, subvert the message of this game. We are actively working on the issue regarding sales to German addresses and hope we can come to a resolution of this issue that will allow us to sell to German addresses

Completely understandable, and I'd also say the right decision.
But because of that educational goal, and that it's primarily archival footage, and games are now considered art, it shouldn't have been blocked. That we now can't buy it is frustrating, whether it's because some bureaucrat didn't get that, someone at steam didn't know what they were doing, or this should've been cleared beforehand but didn't because of the realities of indie dev/publishing - doesn't really matter, ♥♥♥♥ happens, it's just frustrating. And I'm guessing you folks are even more frustrated :) :/.

One constructive comment - if you don't actually have a german government official telling you you're banned, but just steam (probably offering their own interpretation), it might be worthwhile to explore offering the game on additional stores - GOG is usually better at this (granted, they also have a lower staffer per game ratio, as well as, alas, a lower consumer eyeballs per game one).

[frankycl]

Originally posted by Birdman850:

From our understanding we initially got denied by steam and have to go to a review board for further investigation.

Thanks,

Birdman850
Test Lead

Thank you very much in advance for your efforts - looking forward to it.

[Sexual Harrasm Panda]

UPDATE:
The game is available through at least one major keyshop. I just paid 19,30€ there and the key worked fine.
I would advise the devs, if they had not intentionally contributed to that outcome, to do a very similar thing.
I hope you did not lose any revenue over this, would love to see some addon plans etc.

[Karpatenhund]

I followed this Game since the first reveal years ago… and now I cant buy it

[Sexual Harrasm Panda]

Originally posted by Karpatenhund:

I followed this Game since the first reveal years ago… and now I cant buy it

Kinguin, 19,10 plus banking fees€

[Karpatenhund]

Originally posted by Sexual Harrasm Panda:

UPDATE:
The game is available through at least one major keyshop. I just paid 19,30€ there and the key worked fine.
I would advise the devs, if they had not intentionally contributed to that outcome, to do a very similar thing.
I hope you did not lose any revenue over this, would love to see some addon plans etc.

Cant find one. Sold out.

[DONAR]

Originally posted by frankycl:

Originally posted by Minimi TDD:

flori2412, we did all that. Filled in Steams and the German office questionaire (cost a lot of time and money) We were encouraged by the new guidelines in Germany for games being evaluated the same way as books and movies. But still the German office wasnt to happy with some of the swastikas and gore on a few pictures in the game. We are working on a solution but thats not getting in on time before the 8 th april release. It means the release for germany is postponed until further notice.

Well, thank you very much for your efforts and explanations :cozybethesda: - but for me this sounds quite strange, because the shopsite and the demo was accessible already this year, even in Germany (I even still have the functioning demo in my library). :cozybrawlhalla1:

"swastikas" are always an additional problem in Germany (because of our ugly history), that's right, but "gore" alone should at least get you a 18+ rating, which shouldn't disable the access in general. :cleanseal:

Hahnrei

[EvidencePlz]

Thank you devs. You've made the right decision. P.S. Just bought Burden of Command :)

[JeppeBrungus]

Good luck devs, sounds like a bureaucratic mistake.

meanwhile idiot non Germans in this thread assuming they know everything because they heard one time in the 90s that swastikas are banned always and everywhere in Germany, no exceptions for anything. hurr durr "infantilizing their population"

[VonScheer]

Originally posted by Swisspike:

Originally posted by Birdman850:

Hi All,

due to the inclusion of swastikas we are initially banned in germany. Our project Lead Luke decided it was more important to be true to the history of the historical images and risk being banned in germany then to alter the images.

We are attempting to petition to allow us into the german market that will be some time before that happens.

Thanks,
Birdman850
Test Lead

This is hilarious! You lose a massive amount of customers, just because you are unwilling to follow THEIR requests to make a few NON-gameplay changes.

This game is set in history, gruesome one, but still history. Swastika was used by the German army, so I see no reason to erase the symbolic just because the bureaucratic process is tiresome.

[Swisspike]

Originally posted by VonScheer:

Originally posted by Swisspike:

This is hilarious! You lose a massive amount of customers, just because you are unwilling to follow THEIR requests to make a few NON-gameplay changes.

This game is set in history, gruesome one, but still history. Swastika was used by the German army, so I see no reason to erase the symbolic just because the bureaucratic process is tiresome.

The symbol itself is more than "tiresome." It is a symbol of hatred, co-opted by racists. Germany is perfectly correct in banning this symbol. The US should do the same, along with the Confederate rebel flag.

[Mike Sholo]

Originally posted by Swisspike:

Originally posted by VonScheer:

This game is set in history, gruesome one, but still history. Swastika was used by the German army, so I see no reason to erase the symbolic just because the bureaucratic process is tiresome.

The symbol itself is more than "tiresome." It is a symbol of hatred, co-opted by racists. Germany is perfectly correct in banning this symbol. The US should do the same, along with the Confederate rebel flag.

Yes, you are right, but we're talking about history. Would you like to play the American Civil War with the "Humpty Dumpty flag" on the gray side?

I'm not sure, but I doubt that "Schindler's List," "Life Is Beautiful," or "The Pianist" were banned in Germany for that reason. Perhaps they had to move to France to watch them

PS: In fact, contrary to what many people think, the Confederate flag was not the red cross with stars, but one very similar to the Union (and that's why they used later the "Stainless Banner" instead).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America