After four hours in the Tutorials

[boring2004]

I can't believe I'm finally playing this! I've been following you guys for years! I think this has a ton of potential. I just finished playing the tutorials twice, both to get the hang of things and also - it's just fun!

I also took some notes, so here's some initial thoughts.

1) I'd really appreciate the option for different colors between movement range and LOS. Having light green and slightly lighter green is hard for me to distinguish. Something like blue for movement range, green for LOS, red for weapons range, it might make the map "busy", but as it stands it's kind of kind of hard to tell where I can go vs what I can see.

2) I found "failing assaults" to be frustrating, because I'm not sure if it's random or if there's something wrong. On the 2nd mission of the tutorial - when you have to defeat the enemy counterattack - I had them pinned with mortars and artillery, had a unit on their flank two hexes away, bolster and assault - and failed two turns in a row, which cost me the mission.

Additionally - even after two playthroughs - I couldn't tell you the range of assaulting. Sometimes I made them over three hexes, sometimes two, sometimes the exact same distances were "out of range", and I'm not sure why.

Finally - on assaults - I think it would be very useful to be able to set up the route of an assault, to avoid enemy fire or come in on a flank. Theoretically, I think you're supposed to be able to ctrl-right click to set up a route, but it seemed like half the time that cause me to fire rather than assault, could be a user error.

3) "Scouts out". While I think you've got a good handle on "Fix, Flank, and Finish", "Find" could use some love. While "Recon by Fire" has it's place, it feels like the only way you can find the enemy - without shooting at every bush - is to walk into their line of fire. Even at the squad level you'd have a point man out when going into potential contact, to say nothing of the platoon or company level. Maybe something like a "Scout" move order, somewhere between regular movement and creep, where you have half the movement of a regular move, but can spot enemies further and take/receive less damage to simulate a wider formation.

4) A small detail, but please consider adding some more generic icons for unit insignia; card suits, ABC, 123. It's "distracting" in a game about the 3rd Infantry to see famous "other" divisional patches like the Golden Talons, Red Bull, Screaming Eagles, etc. I'm not saying take those out, but having some more generic options would be appreciated.

5) I play with headphones and some of the vet audio only comes through one ear. I'm not sure if anything can be done about that.

All in all, I had a lot of fun. I'm excited for the full release and I think with a little more polish and some adjustments this will be everything I've been hoping for.

[celliott25]

Thanks for your observations and suggestions.

Assaults can definitely be frustrating when they fail, which happens more often with an inexperienced platoon. You've got to hit the target with a little of everything ... MGs, rifles, mortars ... and always Bolster. Even then there's a chance your assault could fail ... but when the assault works, that's a great feeling when you see the enemy rout!

[Hexaboo]

Re: failing assaults, it's a bit frustrating that the UI doesn't give you any clues about what's actually happening behind the combat events. That short 'FAILED' for an assault you've been preparing for a few turns feels more like a taunt and less like an invitation to try again.

I understand the desire to keep certain mechanics and rolls hidden from the player — but it takes a lot of player effort to provide all the support and safely bring infantry capable of assaulting in a location where it can perform that assault. There should be some sort of consolation prize if the assault fails, even if it's just a clue as to what is happening.

[celliott25]

Originally posted by Hexaboo:

Re: failing assaults, it's a bit frustrating that the UI doesn't give you any clues about what's actually happening behind the combat events. That short 'FAILED' for an assault you've been preparing for a few turns feels more like a taunt and less like an invitation to try again.

I understand the desire to keep certain mechanics and rolls hidden from the player — but it takes a lot of player effort to provide all the support and safely bring infantry capable of assaulting in a location where it can perform that assault. There should be some sort of consolation prize if the assault fails, even if it's just a clue as to what is happening.

Thank you, that's a nice observation.

[Alexander]

Great demo but I have to agree that failed assaults can feel really bad. At first I was very confused when I failed two assaults in a row on the second tutorial mission.

[vakarr]

I, too, failed the assaults two in a row and was confused as to what was happening. I also had the problem of trying to ctl-click and ending up shooting instead of assaulting (I restarted the demo and tried again). I wasn't able to work out what the range of an assault was and if moving up closer would make any difference. I also found it confusing that an officer with one order left who was with a squad that had two orders left couldn't do anything - it is very very difficult to sort out the officer from the squad. I would like to be able to press TAB and cycle between available units on a round, it's had to work out which unit can go next, and not obvious which officer is currently leading. The colours for a suppressed unit and an OK unit are ok, but the inbetween status colour is too close to ordinary green. Also, the tutorial said that bolstering would last a round, but it doesn't, it only lasts until a unit executes an order. So to fire the machine gun, you have to bolster, fire, bolster again, fire, which is dumb. This game doesn't seem like XCOM to me since in XCOM its much easier to work out which unit can go next and I'm constantly scratching my head wondering if I will be able to do anything - and not knowing if the enemy will fire next or not.

[vakarr]

I think the experience you give to your squads when you aid them makes the difference whether they can assault or not. So give all the experience to the third squad of the first platoon the first time around and give 100 experience to as many other squads as possible in subsequent missions. I didn't see what it meant when it said the troops were keeping their heads down but I guess that means they are OK but suppressed a bit and you need to remove that suppression to assault with them.

[Cryptic]

Originally posted by Hexaboo:

Re: failing assaults, it's a bit frustrating that the UI doesn't give you any clues about what's actually happening behind the combat events. That short 'FAILED' for an assault you've been preparing for a few turns feels more like a taunt and less like an invitation to try again.

I understand the desire to keep certain mechanics and rolls hidden from the player — but it takes a lot of player effort to provide all the support and safely bring infantry capable of assaulting in a location where it can perform that assault. There should be some sort of consolation prize if the assault fails, even if it's just a clue as to what is happening.

I completely agree with this post and it's a little disappointing that this was not improved visually. Or at least it doesn't sound like it was. Because there is still really no feedback that is given to the player to let them know what is going on when this happens

[FlyingTorcensoredWhale]

I think so far my biggest issue with Assaults is the fact that I don't quite understand what exactly are they meant to represent.

Is this literal bayonet charge? That... Doesn't sound doctrinally appropriate for the US Army in WW2. Is it "close in with hand grenades and flanking fire"? The boys are failing a bit too often at that, when trying to approach a fixed and suppressed MG nest from a blind spot, where nobody can even shoot at them.

That was my first real mission experience. Everything else was taken care off and two squads just couldn't muster courage to close in with an MG nest from where it couldn't even see them. After bolstering. And after shooting said MG nest to absolute bits.

What IS the Assault command? What does it do? "In-universe"? Do we put bayonets on our M1 Garands and rush the MG nest? Why can't we throw grenades at it? Especially when already from the hex away?

How big is the hex?

[Hurt Cobain]

The game should def make it easier to finish a unit off with sustained fire. Why should I leave cover to go destroy a enemy unit that is pinned down in a field by 2 MGs. After so many turns of sustained fire a units chance to takes casualties should go up. If a unit isnt able to move or rally after so many turns of being pinned down it should start to take heavy casualties until it dies.

[Minimi TDD]

Hurt Cobain, suppression means the enemy men dive behind cover and stay there, they dont put their heads up. In many cases this means you cant hit them because you cant see them. Thats why you have to assault them.

[Cryptic]

Originally posted by FlyingTorcensoredWhale:

I think so far my biggest issue with Assaults is the fact that I don't quite understand what exactly are they meant to represent.

Is this literal bayonet charge? That... Doesn't sound doctrinally appropriate for the US Army in WW2. Is it "close in with hand grenades and flanking fire"? The boys are failing a bit too often at that, when trying to approach a fixed and suppressed MG nest from a blind spot, where nobody can even shoot at them.

That was my first real mission experience. Everything else was taken care off and two squads just couldn't muster courage to close in with an MG nest from where it couldn't even see them. After bolstering. And after shooting said MG nest to absolute bits.

What IS the Assault command? What does it do? "In-universe"? Do we put bayonets on our M1 Garands and rush the MG nest? Why can't we throw grenades at it? Especially when already from the hex away?

How big is the hex?

it's a bit misleading that a squad visually takes up an entire hex, even just next to an enemy, and they cannot throw grenades, see them any better than a squad several hexes away. kinda goofy in all honesty. an assault, to me, is like in chain of command or crossfire (tabletop skirmish wargames) where a squad closes in, uses cqb weapons more freely, grenades, melee, etc to wipe out an enemy or force them to surrender.

it's kinda silly to me how often squads surrender in this as opposed to fighting and dying. im not saying it has to be every man until their dying breath or that war is purely gunfire, but come on...

[Team Triss]

It is implied that grenades are chucked during an assault; sometimes you get a text or flavor popup to that effect.

[Cryptic]

Originally posted by Team Triss:

It is implied that grenades are chucked during an assault; sometimes you get a text or flavor popup to that effect.

Indeed but almost never any real casualties in my experience or that of the several videos (hours of gameplay) I watched before buying. It's a little odd to me

[FlyingTorcensoredWhale]

Originally posted by Cryptic:

Originally posted by FlyingTorcensoredWhale:

I think so far my biggest issue with Assaults is the fact that I don't quite understand what exactly are they meant to represent.

Is this literal bayonet charge? That... Doesn't sound doctrinally appropriate for the US Army in WW2. Is it "close in with hand grenades and flanking fire"? The boys are failing a bit too often at that, when trying to approach a fixed and suppressed MG nest from a blind spot, where nobody can even shoot at them.

That was my first real mission experience. Everything else was taken care off and two squads just couldn't muster courage to close in with an MG nest from where it couldn't even see them. After bolstering. And after shooting said MG nest to absolute bits.

What IS the Assault command? What does it do? "In-universe"? Do we put bayonets on our M1 Garands and rush the MG nest? Why can't we throw grenades at it? Especially when already from the hex away?

How big is the hex?

it's a bit misleading that a squad visually takes up an entire hex, even just next to an enemy, and they cannot throw grenades, see them any better than a squad several hexes away. kinda goofy in all honesty. an assault, to me, is like in chain of command or crossfire (tabletop skirmish wargames) where a squad closes in, uses cqb weapons more freely, grenades, melee, etc to wipe out an enemy or force them to surrender.

it's kinda silly to me how often squads surrender in this as opposed to fighting and dying. im not saying it has to be every man until their dying breath or that war is purely gunfire, but come on...

I assume so far that's because I'm fighting the French. And they aren't too too eager to even be there.

I didn't get to Germans yet, but I would imagine they would put up more of a fight more often.

[Cryptic]

Originally posted by FlyingTorcensoredWhale:

Originally posted by Cryptic:

it's a bit misleading that a squad visually takes up an entire hex, even just next to an enemy, and they cannot throw grenades, see them any better than a squad several hexes away. kinda goofy in all honesty. an assault, to me, is like in chain of command or crossfire (tabletop skirmish wargames) where a squad closes in, uses cqb weapons more freely, grenades, melee, etc to wipe out an enemy or force them to surrender.

it's kinda silly to me how often squads surrender in this as opposed to fighting and dying. im not saying it has to be every man until their dying breath or that war is purely gunfire, but come on...

I assume so far that's because I'm fighting the French. And they aren't too too eager to even be there.

I didn't get to Germans yet, but I would imagine they would put up more of a fight more often.

Lmao. Might be.

But unfortunately I saw it happening a lot in videos before I bought it.