Can somebody explain the Boys of silence mission? (SPOILERS)

[MAU5]

So I'm on my second play through on 1999 mode and I'm trying to piece the story together better since I've played through it once and notice the little things more now. but one thing that just baffles me through the story is the boys of silence part where you're taken forward in time to where columbia is attacking NY. The thing that confuses me most is what the hell is that place im walking through and what happened? its comstocks house and its a mental institute?? WTF! If somebody could explain the whole scene I'd be very greatful:) thankyou!

[Nabu-San]

I think this is a place were the one who don't fit into Comstock propaganda are taken to to be brainwashed. Why is it in Comstock House itself, why are there Boys of Silence only here ? We don't know. This is one weak point in BI, things are placed here without explanation such as Vigors.

[MAU5]

Originally posted by EvilWisdom:

I think this is a place were the one who don't fit into Comstock propaganda are taken to to be brainwashed. Why is it in Comstock House itself, why are there Boys of Silence only here ? We don't know. This is one weak point in BI, things are placed here without explanation such as Vigors.

Vigors are explained! I thought Fink saw them being manufactured through a tear, much like song bird! The tear proberbly showed rapture since vigors and song bird are much like plasmids and big daddys! But back to the main point in which the boys of silence have no explaination is just annoying! such a standout part of the game and no real explaination for it just baffles me really:( but I agree with your point that this seems to be where maybe the vox populi in that tear didnt win and comstock rehabilitates them there!

[Shadowspaz]

It's at least hinted at. Elizabeth makes some comment about how her creations are running the place, now. Meaning, the Boys of Silence. From there, it seems they were created to control the masses through the brainwashing, and evidently have a pretty tight leash on them. The how or why, though, is all up to speculation, though.

[January 2035]

Well, this is just my theory atleast....
There's a voxophone in which Elizabeth references her children, the boys can manipulate tears somehow, there're random people with no backstories and (if I recall correctly) Columbia is only destined to survive if a descendant of Comstock sits the throne.

So, yeah, I think they're her children and comstock home is their indoctrination centre as they don't want to make the same mistake as they did with Elizabeth.

[Shadowspaz]

I'm not sure if operating the tears would be passed down genetically, though...

And it only said "The seed of the prophet shall sit the throne and drown in fire the mountains of man." The Comstock legacy ends with Elizabeth's mission, there. I'm pretty sure 'children' is just a term of endearment towards her creations/subjects.

[January 2035]

http://bioshock.wikia.com/wiki/A_Broken_Circle

Elizabeth would have to have had children at one point before becoming too old, otherwise there was no reason to buy her as a baby.

[January 2035]

And yeah, 'children' may be in the religious sense, but I honestly can't even remember Comstock calling people his child and he even has father in his name. It just doesn't seem like a used term.
Every other voxophone in Comstock home actually directly links to the situation pretty well. I can't see what else this would be explaining otherwise. http://bioshock.wikia.com/wiki/The_Value_of_Choice

And, yeah, it's not shown to necessarily be genetic, but it certainly helps to support my theory.

[Shadowspaz]

The tears are only a result of existing in two universes simultaneously. It can't be genetic. The only things that "could" hint at her having had children is the fact that she addresses them as such, but it definitely doesn't come across as that. Her speech is monotone; She shows no love or remorse for them. All she expresses is regret at creating them. "Watching what she set in motion take control," or something like that.

I'm not sure what your point was with that first post, either. How would her not having kids make her entire life in Columbia pointless? I'll just quote it again: "The seed of the prophet shall sit the throne and rain in fire them mountains of Man." Nothing about "the seed of the seed of the prophet." He needed Elizabeth to complete the prophecy, and as seen with the destruction of New York, it seems she did. That was her purpose.

The "broken circle" does imply a cyclical progression, such as family heritage, but the problem was that the circle broke with Comstock- He was the end of the line.

I really just think that the Boys of Silence, and the entire building, there, is just an expression of how completely drone-like Columbia became under Elizabeth's rule. She made everyone into her puppets; she made wardens for the puppets, and as she grew weary, they started taking over, controlling the drones on their own. There was nothing left of the old Columbia, at that point. Just monotonous organization of creatures that can hardly be called people anymore. Which, I guess, brings up a point: If this is what Columbia has become, what point is there in Elizabeth having a child to continue it all? What would they inherit, other than organized chaos, out of human control?

[January 2035]

I'd say it's at least reasonable to consider a baby part of the mother's body to an extent. To the same extent a placenta is. The effect may carry on as a result of that. It's ambiguous.

My first post was to point out that Comstock said the arch angel told him Columbia would not fall as long as his line sits the throne. This'd imply that for Columbia to live beyond Elizabeth's lifetime, she would have to have a child to follow after her. It'd seem odd for Comstock to do all of this with Columbia's survival to be unlikely past one generation.

If Comstock did indeed intend for Elizabeth to have a child to lead Columbia, I'm fairly certain the scientists would ensure it to be so without her having a say in the matter and so it's reasonable for her to have no love for them.

[January 2035]

The more she has, the more likely the line would continue. They don't strike me as the kind of things that have free will, motives or opinions of their own so I don't think there'd be issues over which ascends if they're fundamentally identical. It just helps to gurantee that if one dies then it's not the end of Columbia and they'd be more likely to reproduce, in whatever way they do....

[Shadowspaz]

This is a whoooole lot of speculation. And I don't recall Comstock ever mentioning, or hinting at, a desire to keep his lineage on the throne for multiple generations. The only two points that even have anything to do with him and family is the fact that he needs a daughter, and that she will fulfill the prophecy. There is nothing, anywhere, beyond that.

And he seems incredibly driven to complete the prophecy. I'd say moreso than keeping Columbia. Feels like the city itself was just a means to an end. He didn't look too worried that the Vox had completely taken it over.

[January 2035]

I'm uncertain if you actually clicked the link, so here's the exact quote:
"The archangel tells me that Columbia will only survive so long as my line sits the throne."

So, overall...
Comstock atleast implies that the preservation of his line would be beneficial
The boys of silence exist with no obvious backstory, yet possess abilities that were previously unique to Elizabeth
Elizabeth references children in a voxophone, which otherwise has no significance to the story at all, which is found in the area full of the boys of silence

Idk, I think there's a link there. I can't think of anything in the game that suggests this would not be true, nor can I see a reason why Comstock would not instruct the scientists to force her to have a child if it would mean the preservation of Columbia.

[Shadowspaz]

That quote also just gives more reason as to why Elizabeth needs to be the one to destroy New York. If it didn't *need* to be "his line," I'm sure he could just grab any child, come up with his religious nonsense, and present it as the prophetical child.

Do they really possess abilities only Elizabeth had? What... what do they do? The way they kind of explode, and ghostly vapors fly to all the drones, made me kinda think they were some sort of collection of souls. But that doesn't really fit with the game, so perhaps it's several tears, bringing living versions of all the drones to the current dimension? Regardless, I don't think we can say they're "Elizabeth's powers" before we even know exactly what powers they have.

There are plenty of voxophones that don't have significance to the story, such as the woman talking about how her husband was turned into a Handyman to cure his stomach cancer. But this one is called "The Value of Choice." She talks about how everyone is born into sin, and that her "children" are free of it. That, alone, is very biblical: To wash someone of sin is to adopt them into the way of God, and as the kind and guiding hand of all these people, a maternal relationship makes sense. On top of that, she compares herself with God once or twice, and if she does feel as their God (Which would be appropriate, given her powers), then "we are all the children of God." It all works.

It still kinda feels like your main point for this idea is just that she refers to them as her children, which can mean many different things. From there, I think you may be altering facts to fit the theory, rather than the other way around. Which is understandable. It's an interesting theory.

[January 2035]

Yeah, I agree that Elizabeth must be the one to destroy New York, but I think it must be part of Comstock/Booker's line for Columbia not to fall (as in biologically). If Elizabeth had a child, it would be part of that line and fullfill that statement and Columbia would survive.

They've got people in a mental state similar to those that had died and travelled through a tear, which cannot be shot and do not exit that state until the boy makes them. Seems kind of like tear manipulation of some sort to me. Alongside the whole teleportation thing.

That voxophone is significant as it explains why people created handymen, I guess? Regardless, every single other voxophone from Elizabeth explains the situation she's in, how the Luteces played a roll in it, why booker is there and what her plans for the future are. All of them are very story significant and explain tons. It just seems odd for there to randomly be a voxophone with absolutely no real relevance to the back story except a bit of philosophy. Especially one in which she states 'my children' are 'without choice' in an area full of the boys of silence.

The main reason I think any of this is because I'm fairly sure Elizabeth would have had biological kids at some point. There is no reason why Comstock wouldn't decide it to be so. The fact that she references children in that area, and that the boys of silence have such weird traits is simply what makes me think it's them.

[Shadowspaz]

That voxophone reveals plenty. It shows how completely distorted and broken she has become. She sounds like Comstock, there, which says a lot on its own.

It "seems kind of like tear manipulation?" Soo... We still really don't know. And Elizabeth couldn't teleport, so it isn't that. It's supernatural, but not in an "Elizabeth is their biological mother" kind of way.

Saying that there's no reason why Comstock wouldn't decide that is just like saying "Why not?" when someone asks for an explanation. There needs to be evidence, and there needs to be more than ambiguous word choice and strange abilities. Keep in mind that the Lutece still exist. They could create them. Or Elizabeth could have researched it herself, since she was keen on quantum mechanics in her childhood. She could've gotten more scientists to expand on the tear technology. Actually (and this just came to me), I think their abilities could be similar to the siphon. Or the reverse, of it. Instead of focusing the energy, it disperses it, opening a handful of tears briefly. Or something. My point is, there are SO MANY possible explanations for the Boys of Silence.

And if their biological connection to someone who exists in another dimension is what gives them that, then anyone who crosses over should have some powers. I mean, Booker's mom isn't in the same dimension as him by that point. So he should have something. See my point? It just doesn't work like that.