An analysis of why Bioshock Infinite is incredibly overrated.

[surpriselol]

First of all let me begin by saying this game is good, but not great. It has a lot of polish that makes it seem good. Passable graphics, well designed mechanics, standard but enjoyable weapons and powers, excellent voice acting and interesting locales.

But if you dig just a little bit under the surface of this game, it falls apart. First of all, this is barely what I'd call a 'game'. It's more of an interactive story, much like the early Metal Gears (especially Metal Gear Solid 2) which are more story than game. Yes, there are guns and stealth and other 'game mechanics' but the fact is that those things are just there to primarily support the story of the game, not enhance fundamental gameplay. And this is the case with Bioshock. Yeah, there are enemies. Yeah, there are guns and vigors. But they feel forced and the vigors seem unnecessary relics of past Bioshocks. Why do the vigors exist in this world? There is no logic for them to be here. They make the world seem more unbelievable than add to the believability of an early 'colonial' floating city (already initially a difficult thing to sell). Even the enemies and weapons just seem kind of pointless; supporting roles in a game lead by a brash, overzealous story, which leads me to my next point.

One of the things modern video game script writers absolutely do not understand is subtlety. I think a lot of the time they struggle with implementing a story that works in tandem with the action in a way that will not only enhance the action, but reinforce it. One of the big problems with Infinite is that it bashes you over the head repeatedly with its anti-right wing, anti-colonialisation message to the point of comedy. There are valuable messages to be had here, but they're not terribly new in Western society, nor are they subtle in any conceivable way. Quite the opposite. At every possible opportunity this game is just pounding you with its 'this is good, this is bad' message and after about 5-6 hrs of playing this game I am totally sick of it. You know what? I GET IT IRRATIONAL GAMES. RACISM IS BAD. SEGREGATION IS BAD. WHITE SUPREMACY AND EUROCENTRISM IS BAD. Yes, we all know. If there was more to the overarching story than that it might be interesting but for the love of God I GET IT. Which brings me to my next point.

Booker and Elizabeth have a good relationship and this is a really good aspect of the game, but why in the world can she open tears? Was this added purely to add a cool factor to the game? Because honestly this doesn't add to the believability of this world, at all. First of all, if she hated being trapped in a tower for her entire life (and everyone would) then hey, guess what? YOU CAN OPEN A TEAR AND ESCAPE YOU KNOW. The fact she is still 'trapped' in that tower at her age is 100% baloney. I know that you can try to justify the story and explain it with reason in ways like 'maybe she just never found a tear she wanted to escape through' or 'maybe she was afraid to leave' but I just don't buy that at all.

Edit: After finishing the game I understand why she couldn't open any tear she wanted but it does not explain why she couldn't escape through one of the tears she *could* open. Somewhere in the tedious first half of the game she mentions she doesn't want to escape because of 'family' yet she has no family and talks endlessly about escaping. Towards the end she says she'd rather die than go back to the tower. None of this makes any sense.

And unfortunately it's all a little too hard to swallow for me. Columbia looks nice and it has interesting and well-designed locations, but the combat is average FPS fare. Gone are the days of laying traps with your plasmids and mini-turrets and preparing to fight a Big Daddy or hordes of splicers while you protect a little sister. Gone (most importantly) is the time and thought you'd put into these areas of combat and the choice that came with overcoming those obstacles. This doesn't exist in Infinite. One of the best things about the combat in earlier Bioshocks is completely absent here. You can put 0 thought into what you're doing and still easily come out ahead. Shoot things, use a vigor every now and then and you're done. And this is exacerbated by the fact that this game is too easy.

I am not a big FPS person. I don't play Call of Duty games or Battlefield, but I do enjoy 'themed' FPS, I guess you could say. I played the original Doom as a young teen, and Quake, and enjoyed both of those games and their sequels immensely. I enjoy FPS games that don't attempt to be straight up 'realistic world' shooters and that's purely an issue of subjective taste, but it's also the reason why I enjoyed the first two Bioshocks a lot. Having said all of that, I'd say I'm 'decent' at FPS games. Par for the course, not instantly headshotting from outside draw-distance by any means, but I'm decent.

I'm currently playing this game on Hard, and I have no idea why it's called Hard. For me, there is absolutely nothing 'hard' about this difficulty setting. Enemies die quickly, Crows and other advanced enemies really aren't that hard to dispose of, and ammo and currency is plentiful. Infinite on Hard is actually a substantial amount easier than Bioshock 2 on Normal. Which is a direct result of being overly obsessed with story-telling and not with gameplay. This unfortunately, leads me to my next point.

Like I said, I'm 5-6 hours into this game and I'm bored. The world isn't believable for me; there's no strategy in the combat (or at least, nothing at all relative to previous Bioshock games); I'm incredibly sick and tired of being slapped in the face with the overarching, brazen themes of the story and most of all: it's too easy. I'm bored with the story and the game (if you can call it that) itself. I'm bored with the combat. I'm bored with the seemingly pointless journys to ironically interestingly designed locations to be given one more piece of story and not an interesting, intelligently designed area of combat.

Will I finish the game? Sure. Will I care? Not at all.

[Solarmech]

TakeItEzz eredeti hozzászólása:

Yup, there are infinitude realities in the multiverse, where Booker accepted chirstening, and killing them all is even more stupid than self-choping fingers by whole people

It's Baptism, not Chirstening.

And killing all the Booker's before he became Comstock was the only way to eliminate any possibilty of a Comstock. Because if there was even one survives and takes Anna to Columbia, the human race will probably be wiped out. And not on just in one reality. After killing their native worlds, Columbia was going to start to go to other realited and killing humanity on those worlds as well. You can here Elizabeth talk about this in Comstock House. "Once this world has been born again, a million others wait their turn." Sounds like there just might be a reason to go to extreams to stop Comstock. sm

[GDFa]

Tuskan GA eredeti hozzászólása:

Also, at what point did our Booker become a superposition of all possible Bookers? How and when did that happen? Because at some point it needed to for Elizabeth to be able to eliminate all possible Comstocks.

Beyond even that, how does killing a late-timeline Booker at an earlier point in time eliminate Comstock? Our Booker, and indeed any Booker at this point in the timeline, is firmly a Booker not a Comstock; they are already someone that refused the baptism.

If you had at least paid attention to the game you'd realize that in the first baptism scene in the Sea of Doors Booker no longer has the AD mark in his hand, which represents the "past Booker" that chose to walk away from the baptism, with the memories of "our" Booker, which represents Elizabeth merged what you call the "late-timeline Booker" with the previous version of him in the baptism (you can even see him getting the nose bleed when mixing the 2 memories of him). Also, when Elizabeth says "No. He was here" responding to Booker's afirmation "Comstock is dead" means that he (past Booker + "our" Booker merged) was still able to become both Booker and Comstock. By convincing HIM to smother Comstock before entering the baptism reality, he already knew what he had to do (''Booker, are you sure this is what you want?" / "Yes. It's the only way to undo what I've done to you" ~ before entering the door). So with this, it's possible to conclude that BOOKER HIMSELF chose to be drowned, and not just the "late-timeline Booker", but all versions of him.

[System Cringe]

"All versions of Booker meged", "It's chioce of all possible Bookers" sounds like most stupid things that I heard or saw ever. Self-choping fingers by all people on the Earth is impossible, but megring infinite realities into one is ok. Hmm... the logic has gone

[Tusken GA]

Solarmech eredeti hozzászólása:

Tuskan GA eredeti hozzászólása:

Solarmech eredeti hozzászólása:

And you clearly don't really understand Quantum Physics nearly as much as you think you do.

Well, that's rich. Considering that the quantum theory interpretation of many-worlds has nothing really to do with making choices, and your entire post is based on the assumption that it is, I don't really think you have much of a place to criticize.

The whole choices thing that pop culture has latched onto is simply the metaphor used by physicists to help explain quantum system interactions that might lead to split universes. It's got nothing to do with actual choices. You really think the Universe cares whether Little Sally gets a vanilla or chocolate ice cream cone?

Things that happen in the universe are Events. And these Events can be Branching Points (places where a single reality splits into two different realites) where the results of the Event can have different outcomes. With Sally the Branching Event is the decision on the flavor of ice cream. Because of the decision, the universe splits into to versions. (A Variable.) But it can also be a non Branching Event if she hates vanilla and will never choose it. (A Constant) As a point, in BSI it's said never said only human decisions can be Branching Points. They are just the most obviouse ones. In fact the Coin Toss has the potential of being a Branching Point, but it's a Constant for an unknown reason. Which may be one reason why the Luteces are trying to study it.

That's not how it works.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZacggH9wB7Y

Check the 7:20 mark. You are basing your understanding off of the analogy, not the reality. Sally picking a flavor of ice cream does not qualify as an Event.

Solarmech eredeti hozzászólása:

Tuskan GA eredeti hozzászólása:

As for your comments to me and TakeItEzz, the nature of constants is NOT explained; at least not outside of audiologs. In what way is the coin toss an impossible choice? Probability dictates that outcome, which means half the time, the coin SHOULD come up Tails.

In what way is NOT letting Elizabeth drown him at the end of the game an impossible choice? If I were booker in some other universe, I don't really think I'd necessarily let my daughter drown me.

Also, at what point did our Booker become a superposition of all possible Bookers? How and when did that happen? Because at some point it needed to for Elizabeth to be able to eliminate all possible Comstocks.

Beyond even that, how does killing a late-timeline Booker at an earlier point in time eliminate Comstock? Our Booker, and indeed any Booker at this point in the timeline, is firmly a Booker not a Comstock; they are already someone that refused the baptism.

For every Booker that ends up there, the choice was already made. They're already Booker not Comstock, and nothing in the game explains how a late-timeline Booker is supposed to eliminate an early-timeline possibility by dying late-timeline.

Constant's aren't explained? Why do they need to be explained? The only thing we need to know is that they exist. (Direct quote from the game "They're a million million worlds. All different and all similar. Constants and variables." and demonstrated by the Coin Toss, Booker choosing 77. Remember, this is a game, not a doctoral thesis. Why Constants exist is way outside anything needed. And even in the real world experts in Quantum Physics still are far from knowing everything.

We need to know how it works because its implementation departs from science. Anytime you do something magical under the auspice of science, you need to explain, at least a little bit, how it was done.

Otherwise it's just magic, not science, and BSI doesn't purport to be a fantasy and the profoundness of its twist relies on it not being one.

Solarmech eredeti hozzászólása:

Elizabeth took Booker back in time to the Baptism that created Comstock. But he was no longer a single Booker, he was ALL the Booker's that went to the Baptism and could become a Comstock. He even says it right before going under "No, I'm both", as he was both Booker and Comstock. Elizabeth didn't drown one Booker, she drown *all* of them merged in one person. And since Booker's decision to strangle Comstock in the crib was made in the Sea of Doors and outside reality, there is no Branching Point for alternate realities to be created. Booker was never a Superposition because he was never in two different states. He was only merged.

Again, when did this superposition of all BOOKERS happen? Because even leading up to the baptism scene we see a different Booker walking around with a different Elizabeth, both of whom were going a DIFFERENT direction than our Booker and our Elizabeth.

So at some point between that moment and the baptism moment, all Bookers became one Booker, so when?

We didn't see it; it wasn't even stated that it happened (because your quote doesn't qualify; I'm talking about late-timeline Bookers, not Booker and Comstock), so when did it happen?

The answer is, it didn't. The game didn't show it happening, it didn't even tell use it happened, but that superposition is the only situation in which Elizabeth drowning Booker would have an effect on all timelines.

Solarmech eredeti hozzászólása:

And before you go saying that Elizabeth never showed the ability to merge realites before take a look at the Bioshock Wiki under Elizabeth's Powers and Abilities ( http://bioshock.wikia.com/wiki/Elizabeth " Another use for the Tears is to merge different realities together, though doing this is stressful." Elizabeth merging realities is why some people get Tear Sickness, bleeding from the nose and ears. Because they remember two different realities) Elizabeth's ability to move things it time is shown by Old Elizabeth's moving Booker to 1984 and back to 1912 again.

As for your decision to not let Elizabeth drown you, that is YOUR choice, and your choice has nothing to do with the choice Booker made. sm

All well and good, except again, this isn't show to have happened. Not unless you take the appearance of multiple Elizabeths to imply that, which in either case is a shoddy way to present that information.

As for Elizabeth being able to time travel, that's immaterial to my point. My point wasn't that she couldn't transport Booker to an earlier point in time; my point was that transporting a Late-Timeline Booker to an earlier point in time would have no effect on the Early-Timeline Booker's Baptism.

[GDFa]

TakeItEzz eredeti hozzászólása:

"All versions of Booker meged", "It's chioce of all possible Bookers" sounds like most stupid things that I heard or saw ever. Self-choping fingers by all people on the Earth is impossible, but megring infinite realities into one is ok. Hmm... the logic has gone

It's funny how you say this merge is impossible even with the game showing merging universes several times during the gameplay as you go looking for gun supplies for the vox.

[GDFa]

Tuskan GA eredeti hozzászólása:

Again, when did this superposition of all BOOKERS happen? Because even leading up to the baptism scene we see a different Booker walking around with a different Elizabeth, both of whom were going a DIFFERENT direction than our Booker and our Elizabeth.

So at some point between that moment and the baptism moment, all Bookers became one Booker, so when?

We didn't see it; it wasn't even stated that it happened (because your quote doesn't qualify; I'm talking about late-timeline Bookers, not Booker and Comstock), so when did it happen?

The answer is, it didn't. The game didn't show it happening, it didn't even tell use it happened, but that superposition is the only situation in which Elizabeth drowning Booker would have an effect on all timelines.

Did you just ignore my comment or something? Because I actually answered that already, and ignoring information so you can criticize another comment is not really a clever thing.

[Tusken GA]

GDFa eredeti hozzászólása:

Tuskan GA eredeti hozzászólása:

Again, when did this superposition of all BOOKERS happen? Because even leading up to the baptism scene we see a different Booker walking around with a different Elizabeth, both of whom were going a DIFFERENT direction than our Booker and our Elizabeth.

So at some point between that moment and the baptism moment, all Bookers became one Booker, so when?

We didn't see it; it wasn't even stated that it happened (because your quote doesn't qualify; I'm talking about late-timeline Bookers, not Booker and Comstock), so when did it happen?

The answer is, it didn't. The game didn't show it happening, it didn't even tell use it happened, but that superposition is the only situation in which Elizabeth drowning Booker would have an effect on all timelines.

Did you just ignore my comment or something? Because I actually answered that already, and ignoring information so you can criticize another comment is not really a clever thing.

I'm so sorry I didn't read your post. I'm going to prostrate myself in front of the Altar of GDFa in disgrace, slashing at my back with a whip of Glass Shards in the hopes of one day earnnig your forgiveness.

Now that I have though, I can say that an Early-Timeline Booker would have no idea who Elizabeth was, so a small texture change doesn't really change the fact that the Booker being drowned is the Late-Timeline Booker.

Substance triumphs over form in this case. Linearly, that Booker was our Booker. His mind was the same, his actions the same, and his character development the same. A change in textures does not justify throwing away the facts of the situation.

[GDFa]

Tuskan GA eredeti hozzászólása:

GDFa eredeti hozzászólása:

Did you just ignore my comment or something? Because I actually answered that already, and ignoring information so you can criticize another comment is not really a clever thing.

I'm so sorry I didn't read your post. I'm going to prostrate myself in front of the Altar of GDFa in disgrace, slashing at my back with a whip of Glass Shards in the hopes of one day earnnig your forgiveness.

Now that I have though, I can say that an Early-Timeline Booker would have no idea who Elizabeth was, so a small texture change doesn't really change the fact that the Booker being drowned is the Late-Timeline Booker.

Substance triumphs over form in this case. Linearly, that Booker was our Booker. His mind was the same, his actions the same, and his character development the same. A change in textures does not justify throwing away the facts of the situation.

If Bioshock Infinite followed your logic, then the revolutionary / martyr Booker would also have "no idea" who Elizabeth was (he would just know her from a picture), making no effect on our Booker (merged with him), which means the nose bleed would not exist (since he would still remain a "non-changed" Booker, as you say, with his mind being the same). With this, people wouldn't be all "bugged" when merged with a dead version of them (like Chen Lin when we see him working on non visible machines and the guards that we kill), which contradicts what we see in the gameplay.

I'm not saying that "our" Booker becomes the "Early-Timeline Booker", I'm saying they're both merged into a single one, that IS the "late-timeline Booker" AND the "Early-Timeline Booker". (I also said in my first comment that he was the "past Booker" with the memories of "our Booker", and later, I said that he got a nose bleed by mixing his 2 memories (just like when he saw his martyr banner and remembered that HE had died in that world, meaning that he had the memories of the revolutionary Booker).

[System Cringe]

GDFa eredeti hozzászólása:

TakeItEzz eredeti hozzászólása:

"All versions of Booker meged", "It's chioce of all possible Bookers" sounds like most stupid things that I heard or saw ever. Self-choping fingers by all people on the Earth is impossible, but megring infinite realities into one is ok. Hmm... the logic has gone

It's funny how you say this merge is impossible even with the game showing merging universes several times during the gameplay as you go looking for gun supplies for the vox.

It's just like a magic, threre are no explaination for some details like this. Collapse wawe functions is not intended in multiverse interpretation.

[Tusken GA]

GDFa eredeti hozzászólása:

Tuskan GA eredeti hozzászólása:

I'm so sorry I didn't read your post. I'm going to prostrate myself in front of the Altar of GDFa in disgrace, slashing at my back with a whip of Glass Shards in the hopes of one day earnnig your forgiveness.

Now that I have though, I can say that an Early-Timeline Booker would have no idea who Elizabeth was, so a small texture change doesn't really change the fact that the Booker being drowned is the Late-Timeline Booker.

Substance triumphs over form in this case. Linearly, that Booker was our Booker. His mind was the same, his actions the same, and his character development the same. A change in textures does not justify throwing away the facts of the situation.

If Bioshock Infinite followed your logic, then the revolutionary / martyr Booker would also have "no idea" who Elizabeth was (he would just know her from a picture), making no effect on our Booker (merged with him), which means the nose bleed would not exist (since he would still remain a "non-changed" Booker, as you say, with his mind being the same). With this, people wouldn't be all "bugged" when merged with a dead version of them (like Chen Lin when we see him working on non visible machines and the guards that we kill), which contradicts what we see in the gameplay.

I'm not saying that "our" Booker becomes the "Early-Timeline Booker", I'm saying they're both merged into a single one, that IS the "late-timeline Booker" AND the "Early-Timeline Booker". (I also said in my first comment that he was the "past Booker" with the memories of "our Booker", and later, I said that he got a nose bleed by mixing his 2 memories (just like when he saw his martyr banner and remembered that HE had died in that world, meaning that he had the memories of the revolutionary Booker).

So what you're saying is that following my train of logic, the whole game's premise breaks down. Which is essentially what I'm saying too. Glad we came to that understanding.

As for your second point, I don't remember a point in that scene where Early-Timeline Booker makes an appearance besides the hand thing. As I said, everything but that texture change is still Late-Timeline Booker.

[76561198051514398]

Watching this discussion is painful

[System Cringe]

Yup, all this nosebleeding merge persons seems like a fake mind tricks and makes no sense for me. Also all this ♥♥♥♥ with Booker and Comstock abslolutely doesn't corespond to my existencial expirience and doesn't change my world view. The only one thing in ending that is cool for me is that myriad of beacons, that they see before come in to one of them. It just a cool image not more.

[Smokedice]

"This is my long and over analytical wall of text I wrote. I hope you appreciate and come to connect and care about my frivolous waste of my and your time on why I don't care about this video game."

Thanks for making it clear, OP!

[surpriselol]

Rawfire eredeti hozzászólása:

"This is my long and over analytical wall of text I wrote. I hope you appreciate and come to connect and care about my frivolous waste of my and your time on why I don't care about this video game."

Thanks for making it clear, OP!

An analysis that's analytical: go figure!

[overdev]

Rawfire eredeti hozzászólása:

"This is my long and over analytical wall of text I wrote. I hope you appreciate and come to connect and care about my frivolous waste of my and your time on why I don't care about this video game."

Thanks for making it clear, OP!

thanks ..
that are my thoughts too.

you can over analyze every damn ♥♥♥♥. you will find mistakes everywhere if you want to.